Kibosh Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 So in my struggles to choose a legion to start 30k with I have come back to Alpha legion and put together a fun fluffy small list that might be able to hold its own. My opponents will likely be Iron Hands, Eldar, Night Lords, maybe Ultrasmurfs. None of them are really competitive except the Eldar player can make some tough lists sometimes. Really just looking for some constructive criticisms and if anyone can point out glaring weaknesses. HQ: Praetor- Artificer Armor, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers, Paragon Blade, Power Dagger, Melta Bombs, Nanyte Blaster RoW- The Coils of the Hydra Troops: 10 Legion Tactical Squad- Additional CC weapons, Vexilla, Sgt- Artificer armor, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger 10 Legion Tactical Squad- Additional CC weapons, Vexilla, Sgt- Artificer armor, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger 10 Legion Tactical Squad- Additional CC weapons, Vexilla, Sgt- Artificer armor, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger Elites: Contemptor Dread- 2 CCW's, 2 Graviton guns, Drop Pod 5 Lernaen Terminator- Chainfist, Plasma Blaster, Venom Spheres 6 Pyroclasts Fast Attack: Primaris strike fighter- 2x Kraken penetrator missiles, twin linked auto cannon -1750 Everything Infiltrates. Tac squads surround the enemy and focus on objectives/ assaulting soft targest. Contemptor Dread drops in first turn and just tries to cause chaos and attack vehicles. Lernaen Terms can either secure and objective or let loose their crazy anti infantry firepower. Pyroclasts can target tanks or infantry cause of their handy flamers and their 2+ armor should keep them kicking to keep killing if they get targeted. The Primaris comes in at some point and targets heavy vehicles or other flyers. Lastly my Praetor infiltrates in with one of his tac squads and drops his Nanyte Blast on some infantry, but really is just trying to get into assault with his 7 S5 AP2 attacks on the charge. Thoughts? Changes? IDEAS!? I call this list... The Many Headed Serpent lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Personally I would swap the Melta Bomb and Power Dagger for a Power Axe, this way you have a reliable way to threaten 2+ saves. One Melta Bomb shouldn't be charging Armour. I love the Nanyte Blaster but I'm concerned you might not get to use it as you're foot slogging the Praetor. Even if you infiltrate you would need to get turn one to have any chance of getting in range. Everything else I kinda like. I've not proxied Lernaen so let is know how they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Personally I would swap the Melta Bomb and Power Dagger for a Power Axe, this way you have a reliable way to threaten 2+ saves. One Melta Bomb shouldn't be charging Armour. The Paragon blade is AP2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Personally I would swap the Melta Bomb and Power Dagger for a Power Axe, this way you have a reliable way to threaten 2+ saves. One Melta Bomb shouldn't be charging Armour. The Paragon blade is AP2. So what about the other tactical squads? He can only be in one squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Sergeants should pretty much always be : Artificer Armor, MB + PAxe or Pfist alone. Both come to the same points cost. One causes ID on T4 models, the other lets you deal with armor a bit more efficiently. Power daggers are really just a 5pt upgrade to give your characters +1A due to specialist weapon; don't use it on its own. -1S Ap3 is bleh and will bounce off Artificer Armor. Lightnings for Anti-Air might not be the best. At 2HP Av12? They're likely to propbably die the turn they come in if faced with a Deredeo Dread due to S8, Heavy4, Sunder Skyfire/Interceptor from the Autocannons or S6 Ap3 Heavy3 from the missile launcher at 60" which can potentially kill the second lightning if it comes on as well. Figure out anti-air and you should be good to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I Like the Lightning, but Kraken missiles are better for ground targets as many 30k aircraft have chaff launchers(4++ against missiles). Better off with a couple ACs. As for potential Deredeo, since you're infiltrating so much you have a good chance to get into position to deal with it turn one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I Like the Lightning, but Kraken missiles are better for ground targets as many 30k aircraft have chaff launchers(4++ against missiles). Better off with a couple ACs. As for potential Deredeo, since you're infiltrating so much you have a good chance to get into position to deal with it turn one. Unlikely. A combination of Augury Scanners and only a Dreadnought with Graviton Guns capable of effectively damaging a Deredeo (said Deredeo having Interceptor first turn against your Contemptor with 4 TL BS5 S8 Sunder shots); a Pyroclast Squad has only 3" s6 meltarange and even infiltrating Terminators only have a Plasma Blaster... If this isn't obvious enough, your AT ability is severely lacking. With the Deredeo, it makes the Lightning even riskier an option to rely on for AT whereas before, the limited range on a Kheres was enough to allow it to be taken. The Deredeo fills the mid range AA role which completely annhilates a Lightning (and snapshooting one shot weapons is not fun) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secrets & Lies Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Praetor is way too expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibosh Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Sergeants should pretty much always be : Artificer Armor, MB + PAxe or Pfist alone. Both come to the same points cost. One causes ID on T4 models, the other lets you deal with armor a bit more efficiently. Power daggers are really just a 5pt upgrade to give your characters +1A due to specialist weapon; don't use it on its own. -1S Ap3 is bleh and will bounce off Artificer Armor. Lightnings for Anti-Air might not be the best. At 2HP Av12? They're likely to propbably die the turn they come in if faced with a Deredeo Dread due to S8, Heavy4, Sunder Skyfire/Interceptor from the Autocannons or S6 Ap3 Heavy3 from the missile launcher at 60" which can potentially kill the second lightning if it comes on as well. Figure out anti-air and you should be good to go I Like the Lightning, but Kraken missiles are better for ground targets as many 30k aircraft have chaff launchers(4++ against missiles). Better off with a couple ACs. As for potential Deredeo, since you're infiltrating so much you have a good chance to get into position to deal with it turn one. I Like the Lightning, but Kraken missiles are better for ground targets as many 30k aircraft have chaff launchers(4++ against missiles). Better off with a couple ACs. As for potential Deredeo, since you're infiltrating so much you have a good chance to get into position to deal with it turn one. Unlikely. A combination of Augury Scanners and only a Dreadnought with Graviton Guns capable of effectively damaging a Deredeo (said Deredeo having Interceptor first turn against your Contemptor with 4 TL BS5 S8 Sunder shots); a Pyroclast Squad has only 3" s6 meltarange and even infiltrating Terminators only have a Plasma Blaster... If this isn't obvious enough, your AT ability is severely lacking. With the Deredeo, it makes the Lightning even riskier an option to rely on for AT whereas before, the limited range on a Kheres was enough to allow it to be taken. The Deredeo fills the mid range AA role which completely annhilates a Lightning (and snapshooting one shot weapons is not fun) I will never face a Deredeo, everyone in my gaming group unamously hates it. Still think the smart choice is to switch out the lightning for a Stormbird of some kind. Thanks for the input and I'll make the switch on the Sgt's and work on my anti armor Praetor is way too expensive. How so and what would you take instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibosh Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 HQ: Praetor- Artificer Armor, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers, Paragon Blade, Melta Bombs RoW- The Coils of the Hydra Troops: 10 Legion Tactical Squad- Additional CC weapons, Vexilla, Sgt- Artificer armor, Power Dagger, Power Fist 10 Legion Tactical Squad- Additional CC weapons, Vexilla, Sgt- Artificer armor, Power Dagger, Power Fist 10 Legion Tactical Squad- Additional CC weapons, Vexilla, Sgt- Artificer armor, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Axe Elites: Contemptor Dread- 2 CCW's, 2 Graviton guns, Drop Pod 5 Lernaen Terminator- Chainfist, Plasma Blaster, Venom Spheres 5 Iron Havocs- 5 missle launchers Heavy Support: Fire Raptor- Reaper Auto Cannon -1750 Made the suggested changes. More anti-tank, more anti-air, better weapons on the Sgt's, and trimmed down the Praetor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 No point in giving a Sergeant a Power Dagger and Power Axe, the extra attack only comes from another specialist weapon. I like the Fire Raptor more than the Lightning and it's able to dish out more firepower in general. I like this list a lot more, I think you will find it to be quite effective but you will still have issues with Sicarans but there again everyone does :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I Like the Lightning, but Kraken missiles are better for ground targets as many 30k aircraft have chaff launchers(4++ against missiles). Better off with a couple ACs. As for potential Deredeo, since you're infiltrating so much you have a good chance to get into position to deal with it turn one. Unlikely. A combination of Augury Scanners and only a Dreadnought with Graviton Guns capable of effectively damaging a Deredeo (said Deredeo having Interceptor first turn against your Contemptor with 4 TL BS5 S8 Sunder shots); a Pyroclast Squad has only 3" s6 meltarange and even infiltrating Terminators only have a Plasma Blaster... If this isn't obvious enough, your AT ability is severely lacking. With the Deredeo, it makes the Lightning even riskier an option to rely on for AT whereas before, the limited range on a Kheres was enough to allow it to be taken. The Deredeo fills the mid range AA role which completely annhilates a Lightning (and snapshooting one shot weapons is not fun) You can also stay in the pod so even if it pops the pod, unless you're right next to something with some heavy weapons which good placement can mitigate, you'll still be able to put hurt on it. Or even pod behind it then you only have to worry if you're in range of something with AT and a scanner, which will still have to go through the pod. The combo of Fire Raptor and Havocs is a good alteration. I would keep the dagger on the Praetor for another attack, take it from the Sgt who has an axe. He's already dual-wielding. edit: Also applies to Contemptor-Mortis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 You guys keep talking about, "Deredeo this" and "Deredeo that". Our group will not, I repeat, WILL NOT be running them. So for the purposes of critiquing OPs list, pretend like that chubby dakka-temptor doesn't even exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Which means that come Turn 2, you've then got an unharmed and still alive Deredeo with which you are flying your Lighting in. That dreadnought first turn, even if you pod behind it, and fire both Grav Guns leaves the Deredeo with 1HP usually. The best you can hope for is a 6, 5 (so 1/6), and either a 50% or likely 33% chance of passing the required test to render it unable to destroy your Aircraft (~1-1.5% if my headmaths is right), or force it to come onto the battlefield at an inopportune location, OR be forced to Jink and hence waste yet another turn of shooting, and still risk not surviving, as that's 97% chance to hit, 88% chance to glance, leaving you around 4 glances to actually save against - even if you pass 2, it's still dead. I do get what you're saying, and it made sense, but then I ran the maths on it - and you've got to rely on a player with the Deredeo not covering it's weakness (i.e 45 degree angle interceptor LoS) to essentially have it happen It's a moot point in this gaming group, but it's worth being aware of. Interjection; for Drop Pods, I think that you've got to do your very best to get as much high threat first turn - which unfortunately means IMHO 3 Drop Pod assault models (so either 3 Drop Pods for Triple lone Dreads or 2 Dreads and a DPA Deathstorm) to get the most high damage units in range for target saturation. Edit @Brother Heinrich, completely forgot you guys will be the only guys ever in the universe who'll read this thread. Much apologies, please take one at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibosh Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Which means that come Turn 2, you've then got an unharmed and still alive Deredeo with which you are flying your Lighting in. That dreadnought first turn, even if you pod behind it, and fire both Grav Guns leaves the Deredeo with 1HP usually. The best you can hope for is a 6, 5 (so 1/6), and either a 50% or likely 33% chance of passing the required test to render it unable to destroy your Aircraft (~1-1.5% if my headmaths is right), or force it to come onto the battlefield at an inopportune location, OR be forced to Jink and hence waste yet another turn of shooting, and still risk not surviving, as that's 97% chance to hit, 88% chance to glance, leaving you around 4 glances to actually save against - even if you pass 2, it's still dead. I do get what you're saying, and it made sense, but then I ran the maths on it - and you've got to rely on a player with the Deredeo not covering it's weakness (i.e 45 degree angle interceptor LoS) to essentially have it happen It's a moot point in this gaming group, but it's worth being aware of. Interjection; for Drop Pods, I think that you've got to do your very best to get as much high threat first turn - which unfortunately means IMHO 3 Drop Pod assault models (so either 3 Drop Pods for Triple lone Dreads or 2 Dreads and a DPA Deathstorm) to get the most high damage units in range for target saturation. Edit @Brother Heinrich, completely forgot you guys will be the only guys ever in the universe who'll read this thread. Much apologies, please take one at the least. You’re debating the merits of a unit that is irrelevant in this thread because we won't ever see that ghastly mechwarrior model in our group of only 6 individuals. Not only that but you ignored the fact I switched out the Lightning with an AV12 Fireraptor that all that math you did would affect differently. If you want to be productive to the community about how effective the Deredeo is maybe start your own thread about it. If you have relevant information in regards to this list on this post with the given information please let me know and thanks for your input . HQ: Praetor- Artificer Armor, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers, Paragon Blade, Power Dagger, Melta Bombs RoW- The Coils of the Hydra Troops: 10 Legion Tactical Squad- Additional CC weapons, Vexilla, Sgt- Artificer armor, Power Dagger, Power Fist 10 Legion Tactical Squad- Additional CC weapons, Vexilla, Sgt- Artificer armor, Power Dagger, Power Fist 10 Legion Tactical Squad- Additional CC weapons, Vexilla, Sgt- Artificer armor, Melta Bombs, Power Axe Elites: Contemptor Dread- 2 CCW's, 2 Graviton guns, Drop Pod 5 Lernaen Terminator- Chainfist, Plasma Blaster, Venom Spheres 5 Iron Havocs- 5 missle launchers Heavy Support: Fire Raptor- Reaper Auto Cannon -1750 Awesome refined list. Thanks everyone for the input. Really like this list and excited to get into 30k Alpha Legion. Let me know if there is any other constructive criticisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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