Siege of Vraks Second Edition

[Castellan Cato]

Hello fellow traitors!

 

If you're following Forgeworld, the second edition of the Vraks triology (in a single book) is up for preorder to be released this weekend.  It inculdes a full ruleset for the Vraks renegades and is apparently slightly different than IA13.

 

I found the following over on Dakka:

I read through the new Vraks renegade list last night, I still need to sit down tonight and compare unit by unit to understand the exact differences but my initial findings are:
1) Khorne and Nurgle only, as you'd expect the other two chaos gods do not feature in this book at all in the list as options or upgrades
2) States that this list is an extention of the IA13 list and should be treated as such
3) More units start with the higher BS and don't have the milita upgrade option
4) No Avus as transports, in fact no real options for flyers that I can remember
5) Loses the built in options for marked chaos troops, but the IA13 doesn't have these options and Chaos Marines are full battle brothers so its not a massive loss
6) Some of the warlord options are different
7) Some of the devotions are different
8) Some of the options are different, a big *I think* on this one, but renegade troop squads in IA13 can take very few special weapons, in Vraks v2 its one special weapon per 5 members, with very large (50 ish) max unit size.
9) Basic units available are broadly the same
10) Removes the old limits on heavy armour

So its not a completely different list, its not a 100% faithful update on Vraks, but if you have a large Vraks themed army (mine is around 9k) then you have something that is a better fit to how we used to play.

 

Direct link:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2520/616055.page#7581629

 

Does anyone have the book yet and be able to chime in? 

[Lord Pariah]

... isn't this IA:13?

[Castellan Cato]

I don't know why we didn't get everything in IA:13, but it sounds like the lists are slightly different..... 

[Lord Pariah]

well... jold on, let me get the book... 

 

right.. I have a few complaints of the book but most are down to personal preference... if it had IG stuff, such as tank commander and rough riders, I don't actually see how much they can improve it other than a proper unit of psykers (that can take anything... if were being greedy)

 

... Just khorne and nurgle isn't that grand, meh really.

 

a supplement to IA:13... why not just a dedicated book?

 

not having to buy militia training? but that just makes units more expensive.. I like the idea of making my guys worst for mind games of "yep, you killed 30pts with that death strike.."

 

no flyers.... right....

 

and most of the rest will need me to see the rules to make a comment..

But what drew back R&H is the fact that it was the siege of vraks, but it was the fact that IA:13 was not a campaign that felt quite liberating. It was renegades and heretics, not an uprising on some world..but the options were a bit missing (I so wanted a celtic/beastman uprising) but It is a good chaos book that doesn't involve daemons, so I'm not complaining..

 

One last thing.. R&H is made for big games.. just an issue that it shares with CSM and IG... just a note

[Kilofix]

I'm guessing it will be mostly for the fluff and for Death Korp, with the Renegades as a minor variation to IA13.

 

Like IA1 is the Guard Book but Elysians are in IA3 and IA4, etc.

[Lagrath]

As some of you may be able to guess, I am the Virules user on Dakka asking the Vraks questions. Here is the latest that the guy with the book posted:

 

 

1) Warlord Traits are identical
2) Devotions, we lose Mutant Overlord, Heretek Magus, but gain Shock Legion Taskmaster - must take ogryns as troops but they don't count as scoring or objective secured, which is golly gee, any ogryns within 12" of the Demagogue can inflict D3 unsavable wounds on that unit to give them fleet and furious charge for a game turn.
3) HQ units are identical bar the loss of Slanesh and Tzeech marks
4) Elites - we gain we lose marauder squad, otherwise the same
5) Troops - identical
6) Fast Attack - lose the Arvus, Valkyrie
7) Heavy - identical
8) LoW - lose the titans, slanesh/Tzeech greater demons, the 25% of points total for LoW and any devtion can take any LoW unlike IA13.
9) Gain two detachments - The Purge, Nurgle formation that has barrage weapons acting like 30K grav weapons in that you leave the template in place to create new dangerous terrarin, and chem weapon upgrades that adds in gets hot and shred. The other formation, Unending Host any unit that can reenter after being destroyed does so on a 2+ rather than the normal 5+ gaining outflank, 2d6 for run when reentering, cover from intervening friendily units is 3+ not 5+
10) The demons in the heros section in Vraks v2 state that they are not the same demon as IA13, so you could field two of them, one from each book, which seems crazy. Obviously we gain the Vraks heros/villians over IA13 and lose the rules for the greater demons, although the khorne and nurgle ones are valid choices still.

 

The Unending Host is a battle-forged detachment. As some of you know, I was anyway making a Master of the Horde army with 90 guys with 18 flamers and all krak grenades...now these guys will come back in on a 2+, except now they can also outflank when they come in to flame/lascannon something, or to run 2d6 from a side edge on top of an objective! Sounds so so strong. Can't wait to try this at a tournament. Going to hold off ordering the book until I see a scan or something confirming all this.

[Castellan Cato]

I've been holding off for the same reason.  Doesn't see worth the $100 for 4-5 pages of rules.

 

If you try out the formation please post how it goes.  I've been working on a similar list that I could easily turn into 2 detachments and gain the ability to throw lives away like cheap food wrappers.

[Uprising]

I bought the bundle(vrak trilogy and IA 13) for xmas, and from what I see, I am not interested in vrak 2nd.  I love my mutants army, and spawn circus.  2nd vrak takes to much away, does not give enough back, and will cost me another $100(from what I seen so far, reviews will change this or not).  No thanks, I can convert another 60 mutant/guardsmen or get two giant chaos spawns for that much.  

[Lagrath]

I agree. I may just get a scan of the two detachment pages and put them in the back of my IA13. Even if I had the money to waste, I really don't want to carry around main rulebook + CSM rulebook + IA13 (fire raptor) + Vraks 2nd. WAY too much for one list.

 

That said, I am still crazy excited that they gave Master of the Horde this kind of insane buff. All these Flyrant and Knight players are going to have no answer to infinite swarms of guys coming in from 3 table edges.

[Castellan Cato]

The list needed something it could call it own though.  I'm glad they added in something thats fringe competitve.  I dont think theres anything that can really compete with that kind of staying power on horde infantry.  I will definitely be looking for a scan of the book for the formations and heroes.  I love me some Necrosius.

[Lagrath]

Sadly I am sure Necrosius will stay terrible like in the 2013 Apoc book. I am willing to bet they just copy-paste. At least I hope so, since Zhufor is a steal and is in my army.

[Uprising]

Can some one enlighten me on the master of the hoard and its role in 2nd vrak?  50 man squads with more special weapons, and the ability to come back seems to be the big winner of the book.  Task master seems like a waste of paper so far.  

[Lagrath]

Can some one enlighten me on the master of the hoard and its role in 2nd vrak?  50 man squads with more special weapons, and the ability to come back seems to be the big winner of the book.  Task master seems like a waste of paper so far.  

 

I think MoH is the same in both books: Have to take at least 6 infantry squads, max size upped from 20 to 30, squads of 15+ come back on a 5+ in normal reserves. Number of special weapons is 1 per 5 as usual for any devotion.

 

However, the change in Vraks 2nd is the option to take a detachment that bumps the "get another free unit of it" roll from 5+ to 2+, and lets the new unit outflank + run 2d6 + get a 3+ intervening cover save on the turn it arrives. So if you didn't take Slaanesh or Tzeentch before, you don't lose anything by taking the new detachment (except maybe Objective Secured for the platoons from a CAD), but you turn a strong army into an amazing army. My models are 90 guys with 18 flamers and all krak grenades and lasguns - who can really handle nearly infinite amounts of these guys, especially now that they can come in from the side edges when they come back in?

[Castellan Cato]

I can't confirm how it works in SoV 2, but in IA13 it is an upgrade for your warlord equal to two autocannons.  Basic platoon max size goes up from 20 men to 30 men. (Note: specials and heavys continue to scale up with size of squad).  Whenever a platoon numbering at least 15 men is completely wiped out, roll a dice.  On a 5+ put an identical unit into play from reserves, minus any transport options.

 

The notable buff we are discussing here is the upgrade from 5+ -> 2+ and gaining outflank on guys who return.

 

*Edit*  Totally beat.  It's also fun to note that we can give these returning squads 6+ FNP pretty easily too.  Not great, but yet increasing their staying power even more against small arms fire.

[Lagrath]

I wish you could buy a set of meltabombs without buying a character upgrade. 10 points to add a single melta dude seems too much, but I would do it for 5 points.

[Uprising]

That is very powerful, imagine adding an enforce with combat drugs and melt bombs to the squad.  The only thing that could stop it would be pie plates, and $100 price tag.(yes I am bitter, I just bought the vrak trilogy two months ago)

[Lagrath]

It's always been unclear whether you get the enforcer with the squad when it comes back. Yet another ambiguity with the book...there are so many, I hate it. I really do. I would assume you get the enforcer back since they attach at the start of the game and can't leave the squad.

 

I think Enforcers would only be worth it if you equipped your squads with cc/pistols...then each 15-man squad hits with 60 attacks, which is really funny. But the squads are cheap enough that I don't really want a 25-45 point guy attached to them. Plus, he keeps them from running away, and you actually want them to be wiped out.

[Lagrath]

I come bearing gifts:

 

NEW DEMAGOGUE DEVOTIONS:
Ordnance Tyrant: +30 Points
Renegade Artillery Batteries, Strike Batteries, Bombard Batteries, and Renegade Heavy Ordnance Batteries are Elites Choices as well as Heavy Support. Field Artillery Batteries are non-Compulsory Troop Choices.

Also, when any friendly model within 12" fires a weapon with Barrage and Blast rules, you may place the template so that it overlaps friendly models, but the central hole must be over an enemy model. This blast may also target units locked in close combat.

Shock Legion Taskmaster: +25 Points
Renegade Ogryn Brute Squads may fill Compulsory Troop Choices, and may be selected as Troops. They however never score or benefit from Objective Secured.

The Demagogue also gains a Neural Goad, getting +1 WS. Also, at the start of the movement phase, choose to inflict d3 wounds with no saves of any kind on a friendly Ogryn unit within 12" of a model with the Neural Goad. They get Fleet and Furious Charge until the next controlling players turn.

They also have access to Primaris-rogue Witch, Master of the Horde, and Arch-Heretic Revolutionary Demagogues.

 

VRAKS RENEGADE UNENDING HOST: Battle-Forged Detachment

LIMITATIONS:
Slave to the Darkness: FOC is Vraks Renegade Army List only
Unending Horde: Warlord must have Master of the Horde Devotion

COMMAND BENEFITS:
In Numbers Uncounted: When rolling to see if destroyed Renegade Infantry Squads return to play in Reserves per Master of the Horde, the roll is a 2+ instead of a 5+
Over the Corpses of the Slain: Renegade Infantry who re-enter play after being destroyed gain Outflank and roll 2d6 picking the highest for Run moves after moving onto the board from Reserves.
Til the Guns Run Dry: When a Renegade Unit gains a cover save from the enemy firing through friendly Renegade Infantry Squads, the cover save is a 3+ rather than a 5+.

Compulsory:
1 HQ
4 Troops

Optional:
1 HQ
8 Troops
2 Elites
1 Fast Attack
1 Heavy Support
1 Fortification
1 Lord of War

 

The Purge Battleforged Detachment:

Compulsory: 1 HQ, 2 Elites
Optional: 1 HQ, 8 Troops, 4 Elites, 4 Heavy Support, 1 Fortification, 1 Lord of War

Restrictions:

Only usable by Chaos Renegades OR Chaos Space Marines

May only take Marks or Devotions of Nurgle

COMMAND BENEFITS:

SALT THE EARTH: When a model from this detachment fires a barrage weapon with the blast type, leave the template after resolving all damage until the controlling player's next turn. The area under the template is considered Dangerous Terrain.

Forbidden Munitions: Flamers/Heavy Flamers may be upgraded to use chem flamers for free, and missiles launchers may take chemical rockets for free.

Chem Flamer: Template, S4, AP5, Assault 1, Shred, Get's Hot
Chem Rocket: 48", S4, AP5, Heavy 1, Blast, Shred, Get's Hot

[Slaanbull]

Those are some awesome options, I suspect that a lot of people will like the Purge detachment, I've seen a lot of talk about chem flamers and grenades.

Ordnance tyrant seems like it could be abused, but what the hell, it's awesome to blow your own mutants off the board.

[Lagrath]

The problem is lack of Heavy slots of Unending Tide, plus Gets Hot sucks. I think the chem weapons are useless.

[Slaanbull]

You can't run ordnance tyrant out of the unending host formation? Unending host does seem like a gamble with the limited fast attack/heavy support choices, but I'd imagine that playing very differently than an army built around the ordnance tyrant devotions.

I don't think the chem upgrades are that bad really, on a marine you have to roll 1 on a single dice, then fail your armor save and then there's a possible FnP save.

I might be biased on the chem weapons though, I mainly fight orks and tyranids, and rerolls on my flamers would be well worth the risk imo.

 

Thanks for posting this btw, I've been really curious on the reworked vraks books, even though I probably wont buy it, there's still so much to be explored in my copy of IA13. :)
 

[Lagrath]

You need to do Master of the Horde to run Unending Tide (and why wouldn't you, it wouldn't work otherwise).

 

Really, the gem is running the Ordnance Tyrant with The Purge detachment: run two wyvern squads (or your other artillery of choice) as your mandatory elites, then take rapiers or something else in your four heavy spots. No Troops required.

[Castellan Cato]

Wow.  You are the hero of the day Lagrath.  I think that Ordanance Tyrant is my new best friend.

 

If you're taking the OT with the Purge detachment, cash in on those sweet, sweet quad mortars as non-compulsory troops. 6 wyverns and 4 quad mortars is less than 500 points for FORTY dangerous terrain small blasts a turn.

 

Any word of clarification on the Arch-Demagogue rules?  Still have the must be warlord limitations?

[disease]

Lagrath, you have excelled yourself. That's some really interesting idea about combining the two detachments.

 

Any chance you could post up what the DKoK get in the astra militarum group? If that's good too I'm buying the book!

[Lagrath]

Wow.  You are the hero of the day Lagrath.  I think that Ordanance Tyrant is my new best friend.

 

If you're taking the OT with the Purge detachment, cash in on those sweet, sweet quad mortars as non-compulsory troops. 6 wyverns and 4 quad mortars is less than 500 points for FORTY dangerous terrain small blasts a turn.

 

Any word of clarification on the Arch-Demagogue rules?  Still have the must be warlord limitations?

 

I'm working on a list of all the typos, omissions, and rules problems in IA13 (and now Vraks). If anyone has suggestions on what to ask, feel free to point it out.