Dallas Drake Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I ran this past my local gaming club & I'll see what you guys think... > What do you think about using 30K models/rules/units in 40K? See, this came out today: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/MHARA_GAL.html and I love it. I love everything FW are doing to the Word Bearers, I already have these: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/CHAOS_INFANTRY_AND_ACCESSORIES/WORD_BEARERS_LEGION_GAL_VORBAK.html and I really want to use them in a Dreadclaw in 40K. Why not!? They're good but not broken for a 40K game, plus they're so damn cool! What are your thoughts on this? I'm waiting back to see what my group say but I reckon they might go for it - we all play with Forge World and have no issues with any of it. Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Forgeworld says its okay so it really only depends on who you play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Forgeworld says its okay so it really only depends on who you play with. I did not know that! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Nothing stops you using the model as a "counts as" variant of an appropriate model as long as it's clear to your opponent what you're fielding as what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deet Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Nothing stops you using the model as a "counts as" variant of an appropriate model as long as it's clear to your opponent what you're fielding as what. That's not what he's going for. He's saying actually use the 30K unit profile from FW in a 40k game. My understanding was that the points don't always match up well, but seeing as how GW can't get the points even within their own closed system, I don't see how adding FW in to the mix can be much worse. I'm intrigued to do the same thing. The Alpha Legion Contemptor is calling my name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 The points difference is that 30K is made for bigger games like 2K+ while 40K is actually made for 1.5K-. So there was a bit where Forgeworld suggested that in case the differences were too vast, that it might help a 40K unit to have one or two extra units to help it even the field. Of course this was before 40K armies had more liberal access to D-Weapons than 30K armies do. But everyone who has posted so far about playing 30K vs 40K states that there is no problem other than 30K armies become a little challenging to use below 2K points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Do whatever you want for casual games, just don't bring 30k to a 40k tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Just for comparison, my Chaos Contemptor with a Butcher Cannon and a Plasma Blaster costs the same as the new Mhara Gal. The Mhara Gal is much better in close combat, a lot more resilient and shoots just as well (more or less), so your friends might object to you using it in 40k simply because you have two Contemptors that cost about the same, but one is much better than the other, but only for 30k. Also when it does get proper rules, you can be pretty sure it will get nerfed (though it's probably the ordinary Chaos Contemptor that should get buffed). On the other hand, if you play a 30k Word Bearer legion list, you can include it as much as you want, and face other 40k armies and no one can really complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I dont get all the complainta over the 30k stuff in general ive found 30k to be rather under powered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I think the individual army list entries for units is fine for 40k. I don't know about all the extra legion rules and formation bonuses and whatnot, though, mostly because I haven't played with or against any of them. I have no reservations about playing against the new units like the legion specific squads, but am more hesitant about the 30k versions of 40k stuff like tacticals and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 It's not really the Legions/rules etc. It's the points costing. From my own experience I can say that under 1750 the advantage lies clearly with the codex armies of 40k. It's roughly balanced through to around 2300-2500 points. Over that, superheavies and all kinds of awesome can be taken including the Primarchs so 30k is in the ascendency from that point onwards. Can't remember where I read it but some guys had all 8 Primarchs with models vs the equivalent in nids. The Primarchs won. That says it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctem Cultor Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Rumours are suggesting we will get a box set of plastic Heresy stuff and some form of fixed 30k/40k rule system. I'm guessing the idea is to make cross play more compatible by dropping/swapping certain rules. Removing Units and point changes for each system (maybe two unit points costs like 30k/40k e.g 130/150 points) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Eh, it doesn't really need fixing though. For all intents and purposes, the GC list is simply another Codex while the Legion-specific are supplements with extra rules and units. Right here, right now, they can interact with minimal problems. To try and fix that will most likely lead to a disastrous outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I've mentioned it elsewhere, if GW do take on the HH I'll be happy from a models point of view just to get down the barrier to entry. However if they start screwing around with the fluff/rules I'll be gone. After watching the dogs dinner they made of 40k with the advent of Taudar I've no inclination to watch them stumble around for a few years trying to patch it up without ever really fixing anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneFlakes Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 There is a conversion, 1 30k point to 1.somthing 40k points. Will have to look up exact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Why is there a conversion? If it works fine the way it is now, why screw with it? This is why we can't have nice things. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 Thanks for all the replies. I do think the points Balthamal and Kol made about 30k points values are good points. A Land Raider price tag for the Mhara Gal is a lot but it's looking like we're going to go ahead and do this, plus like Noctem said, rumours are GW are probably going to make some kind of intro cross over. Now I just have to convince the wife that £52 +p&p for that model is a legit use of money! Ha... Edited for iPhone autocorrect gibberish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Our standing rule is Traitors are Battle Brothers to CSMs, Loyalists BB with Loyalists. Of Course that means you're going to have 10 Bolter Marines as Default troops in the allies chart so eh. Nice to have a couple of Centurions (lieutennants) to back up my CSMs though. I dont get all the complainta over the 30k stuff in general ive found 30k to be rather under powered Their regular, "Normal Codex" stuff kinda is until you start taking hordes of guys. It's when you get stuff like entire units of guys with Rocket launchers able to move and shoot said Rocket Launchers at full BS (or las cannons, etc) or the Free Chainaxes on World Eater forces, jetbikes, Sicarans and Primarchs that stuff teeters into the realm of the Trancendent C'tan levels of douchery (The previous "Gargantuan Creature" rules for it). That and forgeworld has a stigma of "Paying for Power" because it costs so much-"it has to be better", and it reemphasizes the 40k arms race of who can get the most cheesiest crap on deck faster. My Hazard Suits are not Over Powered at all-but they can hold up some units, take a pounding and then dash away-though they're more useful for tying up stuff like Dark Reapers, Devestators, etc. I'm not big on the "High Rider Killteam" armies (all knights, etc-though I do LOVE all HQ/Movie *insert Army* armies) Any more it's like "Yo, if you want to just steamroller my guys, how about we each pick a side, and flip ten coins, whoever has more of their side come up wins and we go do something else?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I've basically converted to using my 30K as stand ins for my Chaos Space Marines. Most tournaments don't like it but most of the people in my gamer group are fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 See il be honest one of my gaming biddies plays both 30 and 40k ultranarines so my csm have faced both. The only house rule we have is that any abilities which target space marines work on 30k marines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Our standing rule is Traitors are Battle Brothers to CSMs, Loyalists BB with Loyalists. Of Course that means you're going to have 10 Bolter Marines as Default troops in the allies chart so eh. Nice to have a couple of Centurions (lieutennants) to back up my CSMs though. I dont get all the complainta over the 30k stuff in general ive found 30k to be rather under powered Their regular, "Normal Codex" stuff kinda is until you start taking hordes of guys. It's when you get stuff like entire units of guys with Rocket launchers able to move and shoot said Rocket Launchers at full BS (or las cannons, etc) or the Free Chainaxes on World Eater forces, jetbikes, Sicarans and Primarchs that stuff teeters into the realm of the Trancendent C'tan levels of douchery (The previous "Gargantuan Creature" rules for it). That and forgeworld has a stigma of "Paying for Power" because it costs so much-"it has to be better", and it reemphasizes the 40k arms race of who can get the most cheesiest crap on deck faster. My Hazard Suits are not Over Powered at all-but they can hold up some units, take a pounding and then dash away-though they're more useful for tying up stuff like Dark Reapers, Devestators, etc. I'm not big on the "High Rider Killteam" armies (all knights, etc-though I do LOVE all HQ/Movie *insert Army* armies) Any more it's like "Yo, if you want to just steamroller my guys, how about we each pick a side, and flip ten coins, whoever has more of their side come up wins and we go do something else?" I've tried reading this a couple of times. Could you clarify it for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Do whatever you want for casual games, just don't bring 30k to a 40k tournament. Few places round here are allowing that now - exciting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Do whatever you want for casual games, just don't bring 30k to a 40k tournament.Few places round here are allowing that now - exciting!I know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strazhakov Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 If you just play a corrupted WB 30k list in 40k I don't reckon there will be much protesting. However if you mix and match 30k and 40k units I might see how some people might find that questionable. Personally I wouldn't object as long as you and me both found a good fluff reason for the upcoming battle. That's always important too me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I wouldn't care either tbh 30k has some really cool rules like wb being able to take psyker Chaplin's (why gw never gave apostles the option to be a psyker I'll never understand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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