Quixus Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Since DC dreadnoughts do no longer require DC in the army, would you take a Furioso with Blood Talons or a DC dread with Blood Talons, and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Depends what you want, Furioso is pretty much superior to the DC in every way due to AV13, even though the DC has an extra attack. That said, if you have elites left, take a Furioso (But a frag cannon is usually better ), if not; Cassor is a troops choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Good point about Cassor, I forgot about him. Too bad he can't have a flamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Putting aside the fact that blender dreads just aren't very good anymore, I'd say the Furioso is the superior choice for the following reasons: -Av13 front armour is much much better than Av12 (obviously). -Against WS4 opponents, the DC Dread will get marginaly more hits in on the charge (3 vs 2.66 for the Furioso), but in subsequent rounds, both will get the same amount of hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Totally forgot about the WS too, that 5 on the Furioso really helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Viper Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Furioso for marines and equivalents. DC for hordes :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Depends what you want, Furioso is pretty much superior to the DC in every way due to AV13, even though the DC has an extra attack. That said, if you have elites left, take a Furioso (But a frag cannon is usually better ), if not; Cassor is a troops choice! Cassor also requires a formation to take. He is not a blood angel codex unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Depends what you want, Furioso is pretty much superior to the DC in every way due to AV13, even though the DC has an extra attack. That said, if you have elites left, take a Furioso (But a frag cannon is usually better ), if not; Cassor is a troops choice! Cassor also requires a formation to take. He is not a blood angel codex unit. He has a datasheet. He is like Bel'a'kor (sp?) in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Depends what you want, Furioso is pretty much superior to the DC in every way due to AV13, even though the DC has an extra attack. That said, if you have elites left, take a Furioso (But a frag cannon is usually better ), if not; Cassor is a troops choice! Cassor also requires a formation to take. He is not a blood angel codex unit. He has a datasheet. He is like Bel'a'kor (sp?) in that regard. Unless his datasheet says he may be taken as a part of a Codex Blood Angel detachment the only way to take him is the formation. Last I looked at him I saw no such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The DC dread also has rage, so when charging it has two more attacks than the Furioso. For hitting power, I prefer the DC dread. For survivability, it's the Furioso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Unless his datasheet says he may be taken as a part of a Codex Blood Angel detachment the only way to take him is the formation. Last I looked at him I saw no such thing. That makes no sense. Why would they have a FOC slot assigned if the only way to use them was as part of a Formation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Sorry Lysere, but it's unanimously accepted you can take him without the need for any formation. He is just a unit for the Blood Angels army. If you need proof of this, the Archangels detachment mentions you taking Captain Karlean as a possible Commander for the force. This wouldn't be possible given the Deathstorm formation, but it is as he is just a HQ choice for Blood Angels. Unless his datasheet says he may be taken as a part of a Codex Blood Angel detachment the only way to take him is the formation. Last I looked at him I saw no such thing. That makes no sense. Why would they have a FOC slot assigned if the only way to use them was as part of a Formation? Eurgh, mobile posting. Should be obvious where my reply is :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Furioso aaaaaaall day, though I am going to make me a Cassor out of my DC dread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Unless his datasheet says he may be taken as a part of a Codex Blood Angel detachment the only way to take him is the formation. Last I looked at him I saw no such thing. That makes no sense. Why would they have a FOC slot assigned if the only way to use them was as part of a Formation? So that you have stuff in the formation considered to be a troop should it matter. That and everything must have a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 Still it is a data sheet, just like any other unit in C:BA. Are you saying none of the units in that box are Blood Angels? To nail the coffin shut: Faction: The unit’s Faction will be shown with a symbol. The symbols for these Factions are defined in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules. The units described in this book have either the Blood Angels or Tyranids FactionCassor's and all the other BA units' datasheets in that book clearly sport a winged blood drop. I don't think that makes them Tyranids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Still it is a data sheet, just like any other unit in C:BA. Are you saying none of the units in that box are Blood Angels? To nail the coffin shut: Faction: The unit’s Faction will be shown with a symbol. The symbols for these Factions are defined in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules. The units described in this book have either the Blood Angels or Tyranids FactionCassor's and all the other BA units' datasheets in that book clearly sport a winged blood drop. I don't think that makes them Tyranids. What book tells you what units make up a codex Blood Angels army? The codex. None of the deathstorm units are mentioned in Codex: Blood Angels, therefore they are not valid options for Codex: Blood Angels unless their rules say otherwise. Nowhere in Deathstorm does it say any of those units can be taken as part of Codex: Blood Angels. The nail in the coffin is every imperial armor book which lists marine units that may be taken as part of Codex: Blood Angels despite not being in the codex itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Cassor (and the other three) are classified as a datasheet for Faction: BA. Each entry in the Codex is classified as a datasheet for Faction: BA. Ergo, a CAD/BSF/FTSF/ASF/AD can pick any combination of them to fulfill the slots in that detachment. A formation is a completely different entity and where it is the case, it tells you they are a formation. Blood Angels have the following Formations: Blood Angel Battle Company Flesh Tearers Vanguard Strike Force Angel’s Wrath Intervention Force Angel’s Fury Spearhead Force Flesh Tearers Blood Rain Strike Force Archangels Orbital Intervention Force Archangels Sanguine Wing Archangels Demi-Company The Archangels Blooded Demi-Company Strike Force Mortalis Dante's Avenging Host Lysios Relief Force The Defenders of the Cathedium Strike Force Razorwind Strike Force Deathstorm Perhaps you can point us to which one of those is called Cassor the Damned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sans Mercy Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Oh snap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 What book tells you what units make up a codex Blood Angels army? The codex. None of the deathstorm units are mentioned in Codex: Blood Angels, therefore they are not valid options for Codex: Blood Angels unless their rules say otherwise. Nowhere in Deathstorm does it say any of those units can be taken as part of Codex: Blood Angels. The nail in the coffin is every imperial armor book which lists marine units that may be taken as part of Codex: Blood Angels despite not being in the codex itself. No, the units in a detachment need not be from the same codex, they have to be from the same Faction. SoB: Deathstorm clearly states that Cassor is of the BA faction. Ergo Cassor can be taken in any BA detachment. All units belong to one of the many Factions that are fighting in the 41st Millennium. This will often be represented on the unit’s Army List Entry with a symbol, the key for which can be found to the right. A unit’s Faction applies regardless of how you choose your army, but is especially relevant to Detachments because many state that you can only include units of a particular Faction.Also: Restrictions All units chosen must have the same Faction (or have no Faction). RESTRICTIONS This Detachment cannot be your Primary Detachment. Your Warlord can never be chosen from this Detachment. All units chosen must have the same Faction (or no Faction). All units chosen must have a different Faction to any of the units in your Primary Detachment (or no Faction). RESTRICTIONS All units in this Detachment must have the Blood Angels Faction (or be fortifications). I'm pretty sure the other BA specific detachments have similar restrictions only requiring a certain faction, not that the units come from a certain book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I think you should do your research before arguing against the forum but it's an honest mistake I suppose. Red dread for the win though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I did do some research, but that's not the issue. The issue is still adjusting to the wording of 7th. I played for two months before I learned that models outside of a challenge could swing on the guys in one if he ws all that was left. The whole faction thing is a 7th thing and I guess it plays a bigger part that I interpreted. Old supplements told you how they worked with the codex, Deathstorm doesn't. Oh well, Ive got plenty of Melta so if my friend ever gets his Blood Angels going Ill be ready to slag Cassor. Hopefully we will see some more dread characters as the various marines get new stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Gah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I did do some research, but that's not the issue. The issue is still adjusting to the wording of 7th. I played for two months before I learned that models outside of a challenge could swing on the guys in one if he ws all that was left. No offense, but that's said in the rulebook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I'd take a fury with a frag cannon, but that's just me. Either the dreadnaught will win combat, or it will lose combat, by virtue of being a dreadnaught. Extra attacks and shred are unlikely to swing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I did do some research, but that's not the issue. The issue is still adjusting to the wording of 7th. I played for two months before I learned that models outside of a challenge could swing on the guys in one if he ws all that was left. No offense, but that's said in the rulebook! It is, but its a small snippet of a section with very few changes. 7th was hardly a change from 6th in some places so it is easy to not realize changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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