SkimaskMohawk Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I think you're misinterpreting the Sevatar Sigismund duel. Sev didn't win by cheating. He knew he couldn't win and conceded. He just did it in his own typically VIIIth legion fashion. We hear this from his own perspective and he's pretty clear that he was throwing in the towel, not winning by other means. Here's the exact line: "He’d duelled Sigismund of the Imperial Fists once – the only warrior ever to beat him to a deadlock in over a hundred years of warfare. The duel had lasted almost thirty long, long hours of sweat, swearing, and the crash-clash of iron against iron. He’d cheated, in the end. He finished the duel, as hundreds of warriors from both Legions looked on, by headbutting the Templar and disqualifying himself. It broke the rules, as well as Sigismund’s winning streak." The only concession given is that Sigismund was able to beat him to a deadlock; it seems to me Sevetar just got bored of the duel and decided he'd break the streak while ending it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Sevetar sounds like a guy bragging about breaking someone's fist with his face in a fist fight and let's not forget Sev has phsycic powers to boot so sigismund stumps Sev with out any "extra" help and let's not forget Sigi rocks out at the siege of terra daring any punks to clip his wings and he stomps all comers I know it's hard for the brothers of lesser legions to admit but all the Canon and fluff points to Sigismund being the penultimate astartes warrior at the time of the heresy But I am so biased it is no more funny so feel free to back you're fav warrior but I know who wins the Emperors cup at the Astartes playoffs and it's my main man Sigi "FIST" bumps all around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Lol so you admit Sev is the ultimate astartes warrior while sigsimund (aka the yellow ragamuffin) is the penultimate? Jokes and hard to read english aside, the quote isn't bragging about losing (breaking a fist by being punched in the face); it was even for thirty hours and he was bored of it. Similarly it never said he was using psychic powers in it either. If you look at their statlines they're the same for combat potential, except Sevetar is actually faster. Assuming they were fighting to first blood with normal/deactivated weapons then its extremely even, with sevetar getting the edge. But as I've said, Sharrowkin is probably the best swordsman/duelist as he's written as a mary sue (and that's with RG being my favorite Legion/chapter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 WoT already mentioned that Sharrowkyn wields dual blades, not claws. Thats why I said "as has been mentioned earlier"... As to the best swordsmen, I think the Op really means best duelist as he included sevetar and Khârn in his list Yea, okay... there is no slight or whatever to you. I gave props to the first person I read that said it, being WoT. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aralon56 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 What about qin xia he was the head of the keshig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voron Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Updated original post with your feedback, thanks everyone. Personally I think 'swordsman' is a bit of a loose category, I mean for Sigsimund and Sevatar to have duelled means astartes duelling 'rules' must allow for a variation of weapons. So melee combat in general, jump right in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I think you're misinterpreting the Sevatar Sigismund duel. Sev didn't win by cheating. He knew he couldn't win and conceded. He just did it in his own typically VIIIth legion fashion. We hear this from his own perspective and he's pretty clear that he was throwing in the towel, not winning by other means. Here's the exact line: "He’d duelled Sigismund of the Imperial Fists once – the only warrior ever to beat him to a deadlock in over a hundred years of warfare. The duel had lasted almost thirty long, long hours of sweat, swearing, and the crash-clash of iron against iron. He’d cheated, in the end. He finished the duel, as hundreds of warriors from both Legions looked on, by headbutting the Templar and disqualifying himself. It broke the rules, as well as Sigismund’s winning streak." The only concession given is that Sigismund was able to beat him to a deadlock; it seems to me Sevetar just got bored of the duel and decided he'd break the streak while ending it Huh, I didn't realize that BL out and out stated Sevatar *beat* Sigismund and ended his winning streak. That's pretty interesting. Especially considering how insistent everyone is that Sigismund has never been beaten. I suppose the disqualifier throws it. Anywho, more OT, "Best duelist" is probably a better idea. Rigt now, both rules and fluff-wise, that has to come down to Sigismund first and Sevatar a close second. The first captain of the VII is considered the Emeperors Champion and the ultimate warrior out of every other of the literally millions of Astartes. In-game he's the only non-primarch character that will consistently beat Sev, even when Precognition is active, mostly thanks to four wounds and Eternal warrior, though forcing the invulnerable save re-roll certainly helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm curious to see if they do rules for Constantin Valdor, who defeated Horus in a duel. I'm already saving money for the day FW does those models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 here here Kage Valdor is prob a beast I agree with you and can't wait for a model an as far as the Sigi vs Sev thing we all know in a real battle Sev would never actually fight Sigi. In true night lordiness he would probly jump out from behind a curtain with a puppy corpse in one hand an a melta gun in the other and shot Sigi in the back until he ran out of ammo that's just the way those smelly troglidytes operate and who can blame them (except the puppy thing that is truelly unforgivable ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I used to be a good duelist like you, but then I took a volkite to the knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFeeder Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Corswain is so far the best bladesman of the 1st legion, Alajos was a close second and regarded highly by Corswain. According to Savage Weapons, Astelan and Corswain were the only two from the I Legion able to best Alajos during sparring bouts, so it suggests Alajos is third in the pecking order. I'm not sure about Corswain vs Astelan though; whilst Cor does bear the Champion's Mantle, it's not like Astelan could contest it, given that he had the Lion's displeasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm curious to see if they do rules for Constantin Valdor, who defeated Horus in a duel. I'm already saving money for the day FW does those models. I'll probably lose the interest on my ISA the day those models are released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 i think I read somewhere that Valdor will be near Primarch power level rules wise, not sure where I read that. On Sharrowkin, a character I liked initially, but does seem to be the perfect example of a Mary Sue character with massive plot armour, who could also qualify as best shot in the heresy, does rely on his modified jump pack somewhat. It's makes him more agile, quicker, and allows him to remove himself from life threatening fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 He does fight lucuis predominantly on the ground, the first duel was on a ship with the second breaking it fairly quick. Mcneil and thorpe both need to stay away from raven guard, though I did enjoy the IVth as written by mcneil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I think you're misinterpreting the Sevatar Sigismund duel. Sev didn't win by cheating. He knew he couldn't win and conceded. He just did it in his own typically VIIIth legion fashion. We hear this from his own perspective and he's pretty clear that he was throwing in the towel, not winning by other means. Here's the exact line: "He’d duelled Sigismund of the Imperial Fists once – the only warrior ever to beat him to a deadlock in over a hundred years of warfare. The duel had lasted almost thirty long, long hours of sweat, swearing, and the crash-clash of iron against iron. He’d cheated, in the end. He finished the duel, as hundreds of warriors from both Legions looked on, by headbutting the Templar and disqualifying himself. It broke the rules, as well as Sigismund’s winning streak." The only concession given is that Sigismund was able to beat him to a deadlock; it seems to me Sevetar just got bored of the duel and decided he'd break the streak while ending it Huh, I didn't realize that BL out and out stated Sevatar *beat* Sigismund and ended his winning streak. One man's victory is another man's draw, while a third guy looks on and considers it a loss. I wouldn't put too much stock in what Sev considers a victory, especially when he disqualifies himself. I tend to see it as a case similar to ruining a streak of boxing knock-outs by a technical K.O. or just winning on points. You win, but... not in the way you're used to. It breaks the flawless streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 He does fight lucuis predominantly on the ground, the first duel was on a ship with the second breaking it fairly quick. Mcneil and thorpe both need to stay away from raven guard, though I did enjoy the IVth as written by mcneil It's been a while since I read Angle Exterminatus but I thought he used the jp in the second duel. Probally didn't. I can't remember. I'm more going off Seventh Serpent, which I just read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Let's keep this on the topic at hand and not about boxers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimDim Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 On the point of Sevatars "victory" over Sigismund, I honestly disagree that sev truly won. Ignoring the fact that im a fist, my two favorite characters are definitely both Sigismund and Sevatar, and if you made me choose a favourite from the two I definitely wouldn't be able to respond. My point is not that Sigismund won, or would have won (I actually do think there is a peice of writing that states what Temujen wrote, but I cant confirm it) I just think that the outcome is unknown, forever unended (unless the rumors of Sigismund killing sevatar during the siege of terra are true, and honestly who else could have a chance at him besides the first templar or a primarch. I personaly like the rumour where he becomes a grey knight but hey, to each their own) On another note, when has disqualifying yourself from something not resulted in a victory for your opponent? Wouldnt everyone just headbutt Sigismund if cheating made it an auto win? I know some legions have their honor to uphold, but im sure Sigismund has probably dueled a IW or a AL swordsmen, so why wouldnt they just cheat to break Sigismunds streak and spit defiance at the Fists? Imagine if in real life all you had to do was bite a dude in MMA or something to come out with a form of "victory" or even a draw. If you were on your last foot, and money was on the line, im sure everyone would do it to clinch it out. Thats why I dont believe it should be a draw or a victory for sev, but a duel that is unfinished. Just my point though, DimDim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Oh I'm not saying sevetar won; it most definitely was undecided, imo he simply got bored and decided to end things while breaking the winning streak (more of a middle finger to SIgsimund than anything else). Game wise Sigsimund crushes him, but as far as I know thats the only part of lore that talks about their duel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 To be fair game wise anything not a primarch is crushed by sigsimund. Personally I like to think of the reason of the heabutt to be a bit ambiguous. Some things in the universe don't need to be written all out. Hmm do we know of any other good fighters from other legions? Do te word bearers have a duellist fighter? Death guard? Iron warriors? For the sons of horus I think it's either abadon or loken. Abadon seems like he just uses pure rage but he seems to be pretty good. Kinda hard to be the last one standing after dealing with stuff at Ullanor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Is it even a question that Sigismund is number one? I fail to see why thats a controversial statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Here is how the Fourth Legion handle duels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Khârn vs Sigismund in a real fight would be good. You don't become the champion of THE war God for being number 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFeeder Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Khârn vs Sigismund in a real fight would be good. You don't become the champion of THE war God for being number 2! The potential foreshadowing as heard in Templar is rather awesome: "Then I really would have to try and kill you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I feel sad about my Salamanders reading this thread. Hammers are cool too :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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