AlphariusOmegon108 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Red butchers cant be taken as troops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Red butchers cant be taken as troops... Per the Pride of the Legion FAQ, any Legion Terminator Unit that occupies an Elites Slot can be taken as Troops; Red Butchers, while they can fulfil this requirement also have another stipulation that they can Never Be scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Must mean the 'red' Crusades book right ? The only FAQ I see for PotL is on FW's site is for the Betrayal book that says they can't - 1d4chan says they can, so assuming the red book here (which I don't have access to). Really makes things confusing :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Must mean the 'red' Crusades book right ? The only FAQ I see for PotL is on FW's site is for the Betrayal book that says they can't - 1d4chan says they can, so assuming the red book here (which I don't have access to). Really makes things confusing Look :P All I know is that they can. Dont remember the source so it might be the Red Books for all I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 The red books say yes, I can see it with my eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Right so, I think I have come up with my final list... +++ Scorched bastards (2250pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++ + HQ + Khârn the Bloody [Legacy of Blood] + Troops + Legion Tactical Squad [Exchange their Bolters for a Chainsword or Combat Blade, 14x Legion Tactical Space Marines] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad [Exchange their Bolters for a Chainsword or Combat Blade, 14x Legion Tactical Space Marines] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Heavy Chainsword, Melta Bombs] + Elites + Apothecarion Detachment Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Power Sword] Apothecarion Detachment Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Power Sword] The Red Butchers [4x Butcher Terminator, 4x Second Power Axe] Land Raider Phobos [Auxiliary Drive] The Devoured [2x Chainfist, Second Power Axe] + Heavy Support + Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Flare Shield] Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Flare Shield] Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer [Lascannons] I think it should be fun, fairly fluffy and a tough nut to crack. No anti air but, well :cuss it....I should be in combat anyway! Any glaring holes in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Definitely would make sure you exchange the chain swords for chain axes, but thats an easy fix, but ap4 shouldn't be passed up on when its free. But overall I like the final list, still a little unsure on two spartans, but I definitely could see it work. Air power is the only thing I could see you having problems with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Yeah I will obviously be doing that! Yeah no AA but figure can pot shot with Spartans and I should be in cc anyway I hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Yeah I hear that, but the one thing I would consider, maybe at the next point level would be the Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought, or a typhon, they are both really good, the dread in particular should really help with the anti air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Spartans are actually pretty darn good anti-air in a pinch. You'd be surprised how many sixes you'll roll with twin-linked lascannons. Actually, Fang, that list looks like a stupid amount of fun to play I might have to try that. Three land raider variants would be a hell of a lot of fun to shoot across the table at someone. Super World Eater-y. A question though. Aren't the lascannon sponsons on the Venator a little superfluous? They are 40 points that typically can't fire since the main weapon is ordinance, right? (I'm mostly sure there...) Tossing those would allow you to fill in a couple of gaps other places. That, and like Nook said, grab those free chainaxes! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Yeah the chain axes where always going to be on them howevere battlescribe doesn't give it the option is the only reason they are not in there but rest assured, damn right chain axes are going on! Well I did read somewhere else that Lascanons are wasted as they would be snap firing but ch cling the ordenance rules in the rule book, it says nothing of the sort: “if a non-vehicle model fires an Ordnance weapon, then the massive recoil from the Ordnance weapon means that the model cannot fire other weapons that phase, nor will it be able to charge in the ensuing Assault phase.” unless I am missing something, it should be fine? Howevere if they have to snap fire, binding them would be best. Going forward, sure anti air is the next investment and although I don't like the model, the deredeo rules are pretty damn good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 As a black templar I'm black with envy for how many Spartans and land raiders your playing. I like the list. Also I absolutely love the name for the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Cheers t.o.m, can't wait to roll out the thunder! Oh I found the vehicaks ordenance rule and you are correct yes so, I have 40points... Thinking ceremite on Phobos and vox's in the Tac squads? Edit: vexila, not voxs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Ceramite is always a worthwhile investment on land raiders since they are such big targets and the assault versions while typically be in close to those melta guns anyway ^_^ And yes, since you're going hardcore on the close combat vexillas are a great investment. Even though World Eaters are hard as nails, 10pts is pretty cheap insurance for when you fluff a combat. (occasional rubber axe problems) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I cant tell you how many times I would have killed for protection againsts melta. Armoured ceramite would be a very good investment,if only we could have something for haywire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 Well ok then! Final list! +++ Scorched bastards (2250pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++ + HQ + Khârn the Bloody [Legacy of Blood] + Troops + Legion Tactical Squad [Exchange their Bolters for a Chainaxe, 14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad [Exchange their Bolters for a Chainaxe, 14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Heavy Chainsword, Melta Bombs] + Elites + Apothecarion Detachment Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Power Sword] Apothecarion Detachment Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Power Sword] The Red Butchers [4x Butcher Terminator, 4x Second Power Axe] Land Raider Phobos [Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive] The Devoured [2x Chainfist, Second Power Axe] + Heavy Support + Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Flare Shield] Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Flare Shield] Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I cant tell you how many times I would have killed for protection againsts melta. Armoured ceramite would be a very good investment,if only we could have something for haywire. Land Raiders cant be that invulnerable! I like the List, Honestly and while a Deredeo would be a good addition moving forward if you increase to 2500, a Fire Raptor might also be just as Worthwhile and potentially bring a bigger threat radius than an Eddy. So consider that, at least. Problem is, You're full already on 3 HS Slots :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Nice, I like it... Gonna add more boots on the ground if you're given more points? Query - how come you split the Apothecaries up into two units instead of one detachment ? The Venator looks a wee bit out of place ! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 It's just the way I added it in, they would be one unit split so I have more elite slots. Taking it up, I would max the troop units and add another to get bezerker assult. The venator is there so I have some solid anti tank. Las cannons on the Spartans are good but if I come up against a l.o.w (which I anticipate at this points level) it can nullifie it. I did originally have a fire raptor however if the landis are charging forward, I want something on the table at the start that can back them up. Would you choose the deredeo or raptor over the venator? I think I like the idea of the deredeo more as it can handle a couple of things, but it's strength 8 ap4 vs strength 10 ap1 concussive. With sunder in the deredeo and ordenance on the sicaran they can both pen well however. I even like the idea of a normal sicaran. I have one for me wolves and love it but for anti armour, you are relying on rending really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Personally I would rather have a fire raptor instead of the venator. It gives you any air and it's a fast mover. The venators moving 6 inches per a turn which means he's in the back. Also with all these tanks your going to want anti air. The deredo can be good if you can find a good place for him. The Sicarians pretty good too because it's fast so it can keep up with the Spartans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 ^^ While the Fire Raptor is amazing at light-med vehicles, the Venator is ace at cracking open heavy armor and knocking super heavies down a peg. In Fang's list, he does not want for anti-infantry or light vehicle, so (imho, of course) I think the Venator is a little bit better fit. If it was a lower points game, I'd agree with you, but 2250 can bring some pretty nasty super heavies, so I think being able to stun lock the hell out of a Knight or Fellglaive variant is money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I do have to agree, the point about super heavies being a problem is definitely something to think about, I didn't even think of that when I was looking at the list, but the opponent can bring some pretty scary stuff with them to the table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 I'm quite happy for the venator to stay in the back really. I know it's not trendy for us WE but like Flint says, it can limit the threat of super heavys a little. Have any of you guys used one? I'd it just a case of point and fire at the biggest target/primarch or does it need more thought? The Spartans themselves should be able to deal out some AA too with all the las shots I'm hoping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I've used a single Venator a couple of times. They are pretty darn handy when your opponent has a giant super heavy vehicle. A word of warning though. It is perfectly fine to keep him in the back and use it for stun-locking a super heavy or a Knight or obliterating medium vehicles if you don't have any Lords of War to shoot at. But they are also huge targets for precisely the same reason. You can be sure that the second your opponent sees a Venator (or gets shot by one if your opponent hasn't experienced them before) it's going to get a massive amount of attention until all its potential threats are dead, or it is. You also don't want it to be your only method for dealing with super heavies, (which it isn't for you, b/c hella Spartans :D ) especially if you face a Knight heavy list. Some days it will miss and many days (50% of them, typically) a Knight's ion shield will nullify that nasty laser. Secondly, be aware of the abilities of the legion you're fighting. It's all well and good to leave a unit like the Venator parked in back happily sniping things against a close combat oriented opponent, but it'll be a liability if you're playing someone with outflanking vets or Vorax or other "get around the back of the board to your squishy units" chicanery. So, the use of the Venator is slightly more complicated than "point and click" but nothing past common 30k tactical sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 I suppose the thing I have on my side is mobility. If there's some sneaky sneaky going on at the back, I can re-route a raider! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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