Moritat rules clarification

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1. Moritat upgrade gives you rad granades and additional bolt pistol. Is it legal to exchange both bolt pistols for other pistols and also take a power weapon (ie exchange cc for power weapon)?

2. People are upset about "plasma nerf" but to me real drawback was/is Lone Killer special rule.

They may not benefit from any Blessing type psychic powers, or from Leadership bonuses, Leadership rerolls or other benefical special rules provided by other friendly models or army-wide effects which are the result of a Rite of War.

So basically, Moritat in a destroyer squad with attached apothecary will not benefit from FnP?

Also, what "beneficient special rules" EXACTLY mean? I get it that, he can't benefit from Alpharius's "all army" preffered enemy boost, he can't reroll his reserves roll (if there's a model that allows army reserves rerolls) etc. BUT what about stuff like:

searchlinghts

Kyr Vhalen's "Master of Fortifications"

Misfortune psychic power (not a blessing but models shooting at the "misfortuned" target get rending)?

[Hesh Kadesh]

1. Yes.

2. That is correct.

3. No, he can't benefit from either of those rules which come from Alpharius being present. 

 

If a rule is as a result of a friendly model (there is no terminology for "beneficial", so swing that how you will), or as a result of a Rite of War, then a Moritat recieves no benefit. 

 

Kyr Valen's Master of Fortifications; odd as it sounds, no, he recieves no benefit from it.

 

Misfortune it does benefit from, as it is neither a blessing, nor is granted by a friendly model, neither is it from Rite of War.

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Thanks Hesh Kadesh. Not that I understand FW reasoning, but now at least everything is clear.

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Chainfire - how exactly it works?

[Slips]

Declare your going to do so.

 

Roll To Hit. Every Success lets you roll another To-Hit until you miss once per pistol.

 

So simplified order of operations:

-Declare Chain Fire.

-Select First of Two Pistols.

-Roll To-Hit until a Miss is Generated.

-Select Second Pistol after first one misses.

-Roll To-Hit until a Miss is Generated.

-Take all Successful Hits and Roll To-Wound.

-Proceed As Normal.

 

Be aware that you cant assault in a turn you do Chain Fire nor can you Shoot the following Turn.

[rendingon1+]

Thanks. I thought I have something but it seems I don't.

One more question: when my moritat is equipped with two plasma pistols, does he have to fire them both at the same time (because they are the same weapon)?

[Slips]

Well, both pistols are technically fired at the same time even in the above example.

 

Its just done separate for ease of Tracking.

 

You could roll 2 dice at the same time and just take one out if it rolls a miss and continue on with the remaining one until it misses too.

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So a chainfire overheat on one plasma pistol doesn't end chainfire on another? Because (as I understand it) chainfire and chainfire overheat applies to each pistol separately?

[Slips]

Yes it only ends the chain fire on one pistol.

 

It still effectively nerfs him to BS4 since a 1 or 2 will end the chain fire.

 

They are still separate weapons afterall.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I thought the chainfire ended afters gets hotting, regardless of what weapon triggers it? If its changed, i've not got it memorised yet.

[Slips]

I thought the chainfire ended afters gets hotting, regardless of what weapon triggers it? If its changed, i've not got it memorised yet.

It might.

 

But I'd've rolled with Each Pistol needing to gets hot to end its own Chain Fire.

 

Makes it a bit butter but not utter crap either.

[1ncarnadine]

from the recent FAQ: 

 

Chain Fire Overheat!: If one or more weapons with the Gets Hot special rule is used to make a Chain Fire attack, the extra stress on the weapon can prove perilous. When used for a Chain Fire attack, such weapons overheat on rolls of a 1 or 2, inflicting a wound on the firing model. Should any overheat occur, the Chain Fire attack immediately ends without further re-rolls for hits. 

 

I guess it could be read that the Chain Fire attack with that weapon immediately ends?

[Hesh Kadesh]

I'd say that rather unequivocally ends the chainfire, you don't chainfire both weapons, you make a chainfire attack which lets you shoot both weapons.

 

If you had a Bolt Pistol/Plasma Pistol, and fired the Plasma first, but it overheated, you would immediately stop the chainfire. Also it seems to infer you roll both simultaneously.

[1ncarnadine]

I'd say that rather unequivocally ends the chainfire, you don't chainfire both weapons, you make a chainfire attack which lets you shoot both weapons.

 

If you had a Bolt Pistol/Plasma Pistol, and fired the Plasma first, but it overheated, you would immediately stop the chainfire. Also it seems to infer you roll both simultaneously.

 

I'm leaning that way myself. So as an example to clarify my thoughts on this, let's say you have a volkite/plasma chainfire going:

 

You roll to hit and hit both at the same time, let's say a 5 and a 6. Now you reroll both again simultaneously, and roll two 4s. Next you roll both again, another 5 for the Serpenta and a 2 for the pistol, and that's it for both? The Volkite could have rolled a 1 round one or two and the plasma chainfire would continue until the 2 roll though, correct?

 

I think some people would try and roll out their Volkite for as many shots until it misses and then try and fire the plasma, but I think that's probably not correct. Especially if the plasma was going to roll a 1 or 2 right off the bat.

[rendingon1+]

So, is it:

chainfire pistol pistol (simultaneous or not?)

or

chainfire pistol

chainfire pistol

?

 

(damn you FW)

[Hesh Kadesh]

Start of shooting phase.

Things

Come to Moritat, eligible to trigger Chainfire. Trigger chainfire attack. Make shooting as normal. For each successful hit, immediately (ie, before rolling to wounds or doijg any other action), make additional rolls to hit. If Gets Hot triggers (on a 1n or 2), no additional rerolls are genercated.).

 

Gunslinger lets two pistols shoot "at once".

 

Roll to hit with both weapons. If gets hot occurs, no additional shots for either weapon. If no gets hot, any weapon which hits generates additional shot. Roll to hit with each weapon that hits, and repeat until either result causes gets hot (forcing chainfire to shoot)/both weapons have missed.

[rendingon1+]

Gunslinger lets two pistols shoot "at once".

 

Roll to hit with both weapons. If gets hot occurs, no additional shots for either weapon. If no gets hot, any weapon which hits generates additional shot. Roll to hit with each weapon that hits, and repeat until either result causes gets hot (forcing chainfire to shoot)/both weapons have missed.

I have to disagree with this.

Gunslinger:

All models with two Pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase. This follows the normal

rules for shooting.

Sequence:

1. Nominate Unit to Shoot.

2. Choose a Target.

3. Select a Weapon.

4. Roll To Hit.

5. Roll To Wound.

6. Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties.

7. Select Another Weapon.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Chainfire attack overrides this an specifically states "at once".

 

Regardless, if a Gets Hot is triggered, no additional rerolls may be granted, so if the first one triggers, the second one can only be fired once.

 

I suppose that makes a difference when slow firing.

 

Also; it is FW we are dealing with ;)

[rendingon1+]

I wonder if this "at once" was intentional or someone writing Moritat's rules misuderstood gunslinger from the rulebook.

 

FW indeed.

[Hesh Kadesh]

The old RAW/RAI/RACSD argument. Yay, I *love* this one.

[esca]

Does the Moritat chain fire work its way through a squad or does it hit a single model in a squad until it dies?

 

Does precision shot still apply on to-hit rolls of 6 ?

 

Cheers.

[Slips]

Whole Squad. Don't see why it would change the way shooting a unit would work.

 

Yes.

[esca]

Thankyou

[Ishagu]

The lesson is, don't take Plasma pistols lol

[Quixus]

If a rule is as a result of a friendly model (there is no terminology for "beneficial", so swing that how you will), or as a result of a Rite of War, then a Moritat recieves no benefit. 

This only applies to special rules, not all rules granted by a friendly model. The Lone killer rule also does not specify if this applies to rules granted by wargear a friendly model has and not the model directly.