Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Smoothing joins on bikes

Ravenwing Modelling PCA

  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1
Tygwyn

Tygwyn

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Andover, Hampshire, UK
Seeing the mould line removal thread has got me thinking...

How do you all get a nice smooth join between the two halves of Ravenwing bikes? I've tried GS and liquid GS, I've also tried using 'too much glue' and sanding it down but haven't found an easy way to get a nice crisp, consistent finish.

What works for you guys?

Dark Angel player for just over a year (this time - played in 2nd Ed too!)

Developing, mixed 4000 or so points, still nothing that I call "a finished Army" yet.

Always looking for a game in my local area - let me know if you are near Andover, Hants, UK and fancy playing someone easy to beat!

 

gallery_80718_10858_54871.jpggallery_80718_12077_7395.jpg

 

 

 

 

 


#2
Interrogator Stobz

Interrogator Stobz

    ++ VILICUS PISCARIAM ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 5,570 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aotearoa
  • Chapter Name: Dark Angels
Either GS will do; let it dry properly then sand it. Tedious but worth it.

Be Pure, Be Vigilant, Behave.

 

gallery_4664_5295_5937.gifgallery_33968_5962_11035.jpg
Belial by 'Michael'
Stobz'z DAngles


#3
shabbadoo

shabbadoo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,373 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Rock
  • Chapter Name: Dark Angels

This process requires more time than Greensuff and other putties, but it works amazingly well.  I "invented" this technique many years ago...only to find that traditional plastic modelers have been doing this for decades longer than I have.  Of course that merely serves to reinforce that "my" idea was a dang good one! tongue.png  Use this method for bikes, horses, tanks, big critters, etc.  Here it is:

 

1.  Clean the mold lines from the parts and glue the bike together. 

 

2. Take some sprue and put a small amount of plastic cement on it.  Next, scrape the glue back and forth along the sprue with the blade edge of a hobby knife. As you do so, mix the softened plastic you are scraping up evenly into the glue.  Get as much plastic mixed into the glue as you can while still maintaiing a gooey consistency. You will know that there is too much plastic in the mix, or that the mixture is setting up to much, if you start to see thin, web-like strands sticking to the blade as you move it about. This is not a problem! Just add a tiny bit more plastic cement to the mix and work it in to get back to the right consistency, which is for the mixture to be on the verge of achivening that web strand effect.

 

3. Before the mixture begins to set up too much, smear it into/over the joins of your bike. Be as neat as possible, but also be sure to cover the join completely. There will be a minimal amount of shrinkage of the mixture after it cures (you problaby won't notice it at all it is so small), but it is wise to put on a bit more than needed in areas where the join is wider/deeper so that you do not have to repeat the process.  The more plastic you get mixed in with the glue, the less cure time will be required.

 

3. Regardless, give the mixture a few days to cure and it will be as if the model were a single piece of plastic (because, unlike Greenstuff and most other putties, this mixture bonds with the plastic on a molecular level).  I often let the mixrture cure for week or longer, though this is not strictly required.  The longer you let the mixture cure, the better it will sand (for larger/deeper joins, apply the mixture in layers, allowing a few days curing bewteen each layer, and a final curing time of a week).

 

4. Cut away any large amounts of excess, if any, and sand the are smooth with fine grit sandpaper.  You may see a faint discoloration marking where the join was, but that will usually only be obvious if you used a different color plastic sprue than the model came on.  If you used the sprue that the model came on (what I like to call "native sprue") to make the mixture, you will likely not see the join at all.

 

You can also use this method to fill in depressions on model parts.  Most of you have problby seen such depressions on parts which sometime have issues filling properly during the injection molding process.  These depressions will usually be found opposite of injection points.  they can be found on large, flat, thin parts (like tank hulls) and on thick/bulky parts (like eldar heavy weapons).  Then there are those little "cracks" every one of you has undoubtedly seen on the thick robed leg bits that come on the Dark Angels Veterans sprues (the High Elf archers robed legs have the same issue).  Smear the mix in them, let set, and light sand them smooth.

 

One of the best things about this method (other than it working great) is you should have everything you need on hand to use it.


Edited by shabbadoo, 12 May 2015 - 08:10 AM.

  • Interrogator Stobz, Radiation, Space Truckin and 1 other like this

*Things I've Done For Retail Sales  *Airbrush Information & Advice
40K Armies: Dark Angels Tau Orks Eldar  WFB Armies: Vampire Counts Bretonnians High Elves


#4
Dark_Master

Dark_Master

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 714 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Dark Angels
I use super glue.

I add a 'touch' to much and wipe away the excess as it starts to set. Then I allow to dry and use a rough file first to get rid of the excess (if required) then use a smooth file for the finish.

Lately I don't usually require the rough file as practice makes perfect.

DM
  • Epher likes this

ETL_2015_Banner_01_Oath_of_Moment.jpg


#5
Interrogator Stobz

Interrogator Stobz

    ++ VILICUS PISCARIAM ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 5,570 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aotearoa
  • Chapter Name: Dark Angels
Stolen. Mint idea Shabbz.

Be Pure, Be Vigilant, Behave.

 

gallery_4664_5295_5937.gifgallery_33968_5962_11035.jpg
Belial by 'Michael'
Stobz'z DAngles


#6
Tygwyn

Tygwyn

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Andover, Hampshire, UK
I'm loving the idea of poly-cement/sprue mixture, think I'm going to give that a go...
Thanks for the idea - yoink!

Dark Angel player for just over a year (this time - played in 2nd Ed too!)

Developing, mixed 4000 or so points, still nothing that I call "a finished Army" yet.

Always looking for a game in my local area - let me know if you are near Andover, Hants, UK and fancy playing someone easy to beat!

 

gallery_80718_10858_54871.jpggallery_80718_12077_7395.jpg

 

 

 

 

 


#7
vampyrerodent

vampyrerodent

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 172 posts
  • Gender:Male

My method is to use liquid cement from Tamiya, the smell isn't as strong. The liquid cement comes with a brush application to make it in and to apply. Once I squeeze the two halves together, i just use a knife to scrape away any excess plastic that seeps out. Usually, just squeezing the parts together enough forces the halves together and the excess comes out allowing it to be trimmed. You may want to invest in some clothespins or some mini clamps I use these extensively. You can usually find them at a modeling store or even a hardware store.

 

Similar to Shabbadoo's idea, you can get a tube of Tamiya putty. It's like a more pliable version of liquid greenstuff. The trick is after you apply it, you can soften it with more liquid cement and even use the brush applicator to mold and move the putty around. After about 30 min it is usually dry enough to sand or trim with a hobby knife.

 

Curious to know which method you try and what works for you.


  • Knight of Lupus likes this

http://colorblindpainter.blogspot.com

Dark Angels: 1st, 2nd, and 4th Company,  Scythes of the Emperor: 2nd Company, Grey Knights, Adepta Sororitas: Order of the Martyred Lady, Astra Militarum: Kanak Skull Takers 

 


#8
Knight of Lupus

Knight of Lupus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,873 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aldurukh
  • Chapter Name: Dark Angels

If you're building a model properly, there should not be a gap that needs filling.  The problem should only arise when a mold is badly designed - and that's honestly not the case with GW bikes, no matter what some might say.

 

The problem is, most miniatures painters have had no experience building models to the same professional level of quality they seek in their miniatures.  Before 40K came out, I used to build armor models for competitions and I won a few awards for it.  So here are things to keep in mind when assembling a bike:

 

  • Clip the bike halves from the sprue carefully - you want to avoid taking a chunk out of the part, but you also don't want a lot of extra plastic on there as it can keep the halves from joining smoothly.
  • Carefully file and sand away any flash, sprue vents, or minor irregularities.  Then, sand or file the surfaces that are to be joined so that they are flat and smooth.
  • Test fit the parts - if they are properly prepared, they should fit together smoothly with a minimum gap.  If they don't, repeat the previous step.
  • Once the parts go together well, take them apart and apply cement.  You want to use the thin liquid cement, preferably the sort with a precision applicator needle.  I like to use Testors Model Master liquid.

Application of the cement is the other area where most people go wrong.  It's not like typical glue that works by increasing the friction between two surfaces.  No, cement for styrene is a solvent that melts the plastic a little.  If you just put it on one side of the join, the other side is not going to be properly prepared to create the weld between the parts.

  • Apply a very thin bead of cement along each of the surfaces to be joined - and a little bit on any pegs or grooves inside for strength.
  • Carefully (to avoid getting glue on your fingers and outside surfaces) press the parts together.
  • After a few seconds, squeeze the parts together and you will see a bead of melted plastic creating a weld seam along the join.  This is why test fitting is so important.  If there's not a good fit, you won't get the weld.  If it's "almost" good, and the parts separate while drying, the seam will not hold.  As mentioned above, you need to keep the parts in full contact until it's completely dry.
  • Give the weld sufficient time to dry (at least several hours, but overnight or 24 hours if possible), and then carefully scrape, file, and sand away the seam just as you would a mold line.

If there is still a visible gap (or one you can feel when running a finger over), you may need to  use some form of putty.  Citadel's "Liquid Green Stuff" is almost identical to the Squadron Green Putty used by model builders - except that Squadron adds a bit of the solvent found in model cement, so that it becomes part of the plastic.  Alternately, you can use Vallejo's plastic putty which is easy to use.  If the gap is very thin, you can even run a bead of superglue into it.  Sand and file after it's dry.

 

If you do this properly, the join will be imperceptible - because, in fact, it is now all one solid piece of plastic.  


  • shabbadoo and vampyrerodent like this
"Heed not the whispers in the gloom, or the rantings of madmen, for they will attempt to beguile you.
Cleave to your training, for heretics speak naught but lies and damnations.  Let thy weapons speak in answer."

#9
Isiah

Isiah

    ++ VENATUS EXSECRATUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 12,450 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:near Bath, UK
  • Chapter Name: Dark Angels
I too used to make AFV models - way back in my teens. Tamiya models are so well designed that you rarely got a joint where you didn't want one.

However GW models often have annoying joins exaclty where you don't want them. Bikes are one example as is the old speeder model (terrible).

Anyway for me, I just add slightly too much glue and squeeze together. Using clothes pegs to keep everything clamped tight. I then trim/sand excess where required. I find this the quickest less fiddly method.

Cheers
I
gallery_4666_1311_36564.jpg
 
Keeper of the Dark Fortress

Armies: Deathwing and Grey Knights and a cheeky little Inquisitiorial detachment.
(I'd have more if my wife would let me)

#10
Knight of Lupus

Knight of Lupus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,873 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aldurukh
  • Chapter Name: Dark Angels

I agree - I think the thing with Citadel models is not the fit of the parts, but more to the point, where the joins are.  Sort of like how they often split their molds in the worst possible way, leaving mold lines in areas that are hard to clean up or damage the detail.  But they are getting better - witness the changes to the land speeder kit, for instance.

 

I wouldn't say your best results would come from using a bit too much glue - because i'ts not glue that you want to squeeze out of the join.  Use just enough to dissolve the edge of the plastic, and what will come out of the join is a bead of plastic - which, when dry, can be scraped, sanded or filed down to a perfectly smooth, seamless surface.

IMG 20150511 031623

Edited by Ulfgrim Alvsbane, 12 May 2015 - 03:15 PM.

"Heed not the whispers in the gloom, or the rantings of madmen, for they will attempt to beguile you.
Cleave to your training, for heretics speak naught but lies and damnations.  Let thy weapons speak in answer."

#11
Dark Rage

Dark Rage

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 778 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Targeted and firing!
  • Chapter Name: Consecrators

I just tend to file and sand over them when they are glued, also find the lines will tend to fade significantly after being primed.



#12
shabbadoo

shabbadoo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,373 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Rock
  • Chapter Name: Dark Angels

An added note:  I build my models EXACTLY as Ulfgrim Alvsbane explained.  When I do not get that perfect weld, I touch things up as I described my earlier post.  if you also buy some models second hand, and they are not built all that well with regard to the join, "my" method will fix up the poorly joined models nicely.  As Ulfgrim mentioned, if you can get your hands on Testors Model Masters glue, I highly recommend it as well.

 

This is the one (product code: Testors 8872C):

 

Modelmastercement.4.jpg model%20masters%20glue.jpg

 

Note the needle applicator, and the BLACK label with white and red print!!!  Very fine control!!!

 

if you want fine control, do NOT buy this one with the red label (or any with a red label; note the product code: Testors 3507AT)!!!:

 

61Zb4-EevqL._SL1200_.jpg

 

The tip of this one is thick and plastic, and not a needle, so do NOT buy it for fine applications!!!  The glue it contains is just fine, just the applicator part of it sucks for fine applciations.  I actually do use this glue, but only on very large things like terrain kits; never on small parts.  You can use it to make the sprue paste too, where fine control is not required.

 

A couple alternatives with a fine needle applicator tips from Revell and Humbrol:

 

revell%20plastic%20cement.jpghumbrol%20glue.jpg

 

Hopefully you can all find at least one of those (if you haven't already). There is also GW's "Plastic Glue- Thin", which should be all but the same, just overpiced (as usual). tongue.png


Edited by shabbadoo, 14 May 2015 - 08:45 PM.

  • Knight of Lupus likes this

*Things I've Done For Retail Sales  *Airbrush Information & Advice
40K Armies: Dark Angels Tau Orks Eldar  WFB Armies: Vampire Counts Bretonnians High Elves


#13
Knight of Lupus

Knight of Lupus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,873 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aldurukh
  • Chapter Name: Dark Angels

That is exactly the stuff I use, Shabbz.  It's perfect for assembling all styrene models and minis.  I would never recommend the gel.

 

Another thing to note: Avoid the "non-toxic" model cement.  The reason it's non-toxic and has no fumes is because it doesn't have a strong solvent - which means it's not actually melting the plastic parts together.  You won't get strong joins or gap filling and parts may eventually break off on their own.


"Heed not the whispers in the gloom, or the rantings of madmen, for they will attempt to beguile you.
Cleave to your training, for heretics speak naught but lies and damnations.  Let thy weapons speak in answer."

#14
Tygwyn

Tygwyn

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Andover, Hampshire, UK
Thanks for all the replies fellas, I think I will use the 'mushy sprue' technique next time I build from scratch - this time (to get moving on the ETL) I will resort to Liquid GS and wet and dry as thy are already primed and 'ready'.

Dark Angel player for just over a year (this time - played in 2nd Ed too!)

Developing, mixed 4000 or so points, still nothing that I call "a finished Army" yet.

Always looking for a game in my local area - let me know if you are near Andover, Hants, UK and fancy playing someone easy to beat!

 

gallery_80718_10858_54871.jpggallery_80718_12077_7395.jpg

 

 

 

 

 






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Ravenwing, Modelling, PCA

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users