The XIII Legion, Ultramarines

[Remus Ventanus.]

With tempest coming out, and me wanting to finally create the ultramarine army of my dreams, i am need of some assistance.

 

I should also mention i want to base it on the 4th company.

 

So, my warlord will be Ventanus over Guilliman, as I have always loved ventanus, and after looking at his portrait in Tempest......Well, lets just say he is a true leader.

 

Next i want to start with a tac squad of praetor marines, and one tac squad of mk 2 marines. The 4th company i believe was still very much using mk 2 plate, with praetor only starting to take over.

 

Im then thinking of getting the Invictarus Suzerian. They are gorgeous, but im not sure if they are a good fit. Any thoughts on these guys?

 

Im going to hold off on getting Cataphractii until the ultramarines get their own Cataphractii, which could be a few months. But when they are released iw ill get them. 

 

For superheavies im thinking of getting a shadowsword. Is this a good pick?

 

Anyways thats a basic list. Any thoughts on how i could improve it or unit suggestions?

 

 

 

[thor1234]

will you be basing theme on the Underwar?
the core seems solid, how large are you making the tactical squads?

if you going for an infantry heavy list, a few tanks might not go amiss, either a predator Squadron or Sicaran??

[Remus Ventanus.]

will you be basing theme on the Underwar?

the core seems solid, how large are you making the tactical squads?

if you going for an infantry heavy list, a few tanks might not go amiss, either a predator Squadron or Sicaran??

Ill be basing it on Calth/underworld war.

Im making the tac squads 10 man each.

Yes I do want a very infantry heavy army, so i good ideas on the tanks!

 

Cheers

[Quixus]

The XII Legion are not the Ultramarines. The XII are the World Eaters. The Ultramarines are number XIII.

[Remus Ventanus.]

The XII Legion are not the Ultramarines. The XII are the World Eaters. The Ultramarines are number XIII.

ooops! meant XIII

is there a way to re name the title?

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

edit the 1st post in the full editor

[Remus Ventanus.]

edit the 1st post in the full editor

I kneel...

[thor1234]

its a good thing we all know what you meant Brother!

what points range are you looking for?

[Remus Ventanus.]

its a good thing we all know what you meant Brother!

what points range are you looking for?

Well, i dont want to have too many points (as FW is fairly expensive) So i was thinking 1500 to start. 

[KJB]

its a good thing we all know what you meant Brother!

what points range are you looking for?

Well, i dont want to have too many points (as FW is fairly expensive) So i was thinking 1500 to start.

That will still set you back around £4,000,000

[Quixus]

Sorry to derail the thread. At first I thought it was to be a joint operation between the World Eaters and the Ultramarines some time before the Heresy. Did such an operation exist? It could look good. White and blue CC units and blue and white ranged units.

[Remus Ventanus.]

its a good thing we all know what you meant Brother!

what points range are you looking for?

Well, i dont want to have too many points (as FW is fairly expensive) So i was thinking 1500 to start.

That will still set you back around £4,000,000

That is why i dont want to go any higher then that at first......I would sell my 40k ultramarines....but they have fought many battles with me. They are my finest warriors...these men who give themselves to me.

[Hyaenidae]

First off, brother; Welcome to the Bolter and Chainsword, and the Age of Darkness specifically. With the release of the FW Heresy books, this sub-forum has taken on new life, and is quite vibrant with activity, painting, writing, insane yet tangible ideas, and (mostly) civilized conversation and banter. We happily welcome a cousin of the XIII Legion into our ranks warmly.... at least, until you hear bolter fire.

 

I'll reserve comment on the Ultramarine exclusive units and equipment until i get my own copy of the book, but this Iron Warrior of the Burned Men, knows his damn super-heavy vehicles. The question is, what is your chosen style of fighting, and what will draw your continued attention as you delve into this project? A close assault super-heavy won't help as much if you're more of a 'gunline' kinda guy, but could work wonders as a massive distraction for assault troops to drop in. Match the tool for the job first, brother, then we can get a solid idea of a vehicle that'll match you. Don't forget that Knights are just as popular here as in 40k, and you kinda always need a reserve plan if you like to do pick up games, no matter the color of your warplate.

 

Tacticals are always a great choice. If cost is an issue, never be afraid to salvage 40k items for your heresy army. I'd say nearly 25% of my army is straight salvage (Mk VI and below) off ebay that I scrubbed clean with Simple Green, then heavily converted or chopped into usable pieces. Cut costs where you can, man.

 

Again, welcome. We're looking forward to seeing this project take off!  :)

[Remus Ventanus.]

First off, brother; Welcome to the Bolter and Chainsword, and the Age of Darkness specifically. With the release of the FW Heresy books, this sub-forum has taken on new life, and is quite vibrant with activity, painting, writing, insane yet tangible ideas, and (mostly) civilized conversation and banter. We happily welcome a cousin of the XIII Legion into our ranks warmly.... at least, until you hear bolter fire.

I'll reserve comment on the Ultramarine exclusive units and equipment until i get my own copy of the book, but this Iron Warrior of the Burned Men, knows his damn super-heavy vehicles. The question is, what is your chosen style of fighting, and what will draw your continued attention as you delve into this project? A close assault super-heavy won't help as much if you're more of a 'gunline' kinda guy, but could work wonders as a massive distraction for assault troops to drop in. Match the tool for the job first, brother, then we can get a solid idea of a vehicle that'll match you. Don't forget that Knights are just as popular here as in 40k, and you kinda always need a reserve plan if you like to do pick up games, no matter the color of your warplate.

Tacticals are always a great choice. If cost is an issue, never be afraid to salvage 40k items for your heresy army. I'd say nearly 25% of my army is straight salvage (Mk VI and below) off ebay that I scrubbed clean with Simple Green, then heavily converted or chopped into usable pieces. Cut costs where you can, man.

Again, welcome. We're looking forward to seeing this project take off!

Hey thanks for the welcome, i really appreciate it.

My style of fighting tends to lean towards having men fighting in unison, doing the major work, with tanks providing support. From the rules i read, Ventanus fits this style perfectly.

Great idea on using 40k bits. I have a fair amount of leftover sprues with mk 6 torsos and legs, so that will save me some!

Cheers

[Hyaenidae]

So CCW armed Tacticals with a few Rhinos (maybe a few Proteus LR to shake things up), with swift vehicles in reserve to plug holes or rush weakpoints (Those Suzerian could be a good fit here), and a multi-use super-heavy acting as a core. Solid, man. I like it.

In that case, I'm thinking a Fellblade could be a winning ticket here, perhaps screened by two conversion beamer Predators. It has enough mobility to keep up with your fluid lines, yet the reach and power to hammer anything flat that might be irritating you, and quad-las ain't nothing to shake your head at when it comes to killing armor. Of course, in the end, it's your call, man. :)

Don't forget OOP models as well. They usually go for really cheap, and with a little work and some greenstuff....

You can come up with some crazy stuff. I think this dude cost me a dollar, and I basically just added bits that fit him well. Taa daa, a cheap mini with character that fits the theme.

[Marshal Rohr]

Ultras Shield Wall. Thats what Im doing. A mass of Ultras and Fists breachers.

[Daemon2027]

Welcome cousin, more Ultramarines for the grinder is always welcome :p

 

I think Calth/Underworld war will make for some fantastic basing so excited to see what you do there. One thing, don't pin your hopes on FW being quick with model released. Unless they were shown at the weekend, I doubt we will see the Ultramarine Catraphractii that soon, they still have units from other Legions, and they don't tend to just surprise a kit on us, it's ussually previewed at a GW event or on their blog. To be fair to Forge Workd, and those of a few other other Legions may disagree, but they are trying not to favour a Legion in terms of releases, they try to spread it out mixing in other kits from other legions. So if you really want the Ultramarine specific TDA wait, or if not maybe pick up done normal to stand in for now.

[GreyCrow]

I'm really on the fence about starting an Ultramarines force for heresy, once I've wrapped my head around the theoretical tactica, so I wish you good luck for your force ! :D

 

Based on the limited information we have from the other thread, I'm really liking how we can see the premices of the Codex Astartes philosophy for the Ultramarines in their Legion Astartes rules. First, they have a proto version of ATSKNF which means they will rally relatively safely although losing a turn.

 

Next, we have all the synergies between units in the forms of rerolls. What that makes me think of on the tabletop is obviously concentration of fire but with a twist. The math may not be right, but to me it screams of the following discipline :

1) Open up on target with high quality (high strength, low AP) shots from fire support elements (probably heavy support and tactical support squads)

2) Once the target has been "marked", take advantage of the rerolls to wound for weapons that usually wound on 4+ or something. It might be tempting to "mark" targets for heavy hitters to do their job well, but I'm pretty sure you'll get more mileage for rerolling bolter fire from 10 Tactical Marines than rerolling 5 Plasma guns.

3) For the assault phase, "mark" a target with an Assault Squad (jump packs or bikes), then jump in for the kill with Tactical Marines.

 

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Speaking about the Ultramarines' tactical flexibility and the comments that it doesn't show as much in the Legiones Astartes rules compared to let's say the Alpha Legion, I think the XIIIth has a hidden gem in the form of Roboute Guilliman and their ROW.

Rather than buffing units in different fashions, both actually allow you to "play during your opponent's turn". The Master of Signals will make it complicated for ennemies going for the alpha strike by Infiltrate or Deep Strike thanks to the protection bubble from his Cognis. The ROW allows you to buff your units in the opponent's turn thanks to Counter Attack and Snap Shots at BS2 which is quite big (with the rerolls to run being used as a last minute imho).

 

____

 

Like the OP though, I'm not particularly convinced by Roboute (and that makes me sad) :( He's a decent all rounder for sure but I'm not particularly convinced about his army buffing capabilities. Preternatural Strategy is nice and fluffy (and the challenge aspect is pretty fun) but I really fail to see the point for the special rules he gives. It really feels like they want you to spam tanks with him, because : Tank Hunters is redundant with the Legiones Astartes bonus to rerolls to pen, most units will probably be scoring if you take the Ultras' ROW, and Interceptor is a bit redundant with the Masters of Signals you would likely take with the Legion ROW (still better though).

 

His rules are perhaps more interesting than I'm seeing right now though, so up to you guys to help with the analysis :D I'm just not really seeing the point of the buff, and not really feeling the spam of support units it implies...

[Balthamal]

From what I've gleaned so far I think Gulliman is very very good but in the way that if you combine him with the RoW and the Legiones Astartes Ultramarine rules it becomes a significant multiplier. Defo a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts which ties in very well with the XIII themselves and hints towards the Codex Astartes in the future

[GreyCrow]

From what I've gleaned so far I think Gulliman is very very good but in the way that if you combine him with the RoW and the Legiones Astartes Ultramarine rules it becomes a significant multiplier. Defo a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts which ties in very well with the XIII themselves and hints towards the Codex Astartes in the future

 

There's something to him indeed ! Sire of the Ultramarines with LD10 all around, rerollable with Vexilla makes for a force that will stand their ground and probably "autorally" should they flee.

I'm just totally unsure about what to do with the extra rules given with Preternatural Strategy. I was thinking that Heavy Support or Support Squads might benefit from it the most but I'm not really sure about that :/

How would you use it ?

[Balthamal]

I think it depends on the composition of the army as a whole. I mean it obviously needs several units to benefit to the fullest extent but given the flexibility of it, I mean scoring Land Raiders? Intercepting Rapiers? It plugs a significant amount of potential holes in an army list, not that there are many as it is. It's very much like the XIII Legion themselves - look at the bigger picture and get the most out of what's available

[Charlo]

One thing I think I saw was that the Breachers (look like 40k honour guard with the awesome Shields and axes) had AP2 at iniative? Very cool unit!

[apologist]

Yeah, I'm very excited about the potential uses of Intercept – grav-cannon Rapiers will put the kibosh on any sneaky shenanigans. Even Legion Tactical squads with Intercept will really boost the damage they can kick out against reserve-heavy armies.

 

I think Preternatural Strategy encourages an army to have multiple flexible multi-use units (like Legion Tacticals) rather than lots of specialists, and I can't think of a more fitting way to reward players for taking those iconic core units. 

[noigrim]

After lookig over Guilliman's rules the combo sicaran venator squadrons+tank hunter seems quite fearsome.

[GreyCrow]

I think it depends on the composition of the army as a whole. I mean it obviously needs several units to benefit to the fullest extent but given the flexibility of it, I mean scoring Land Raiders? Intercepting Rapiers? It plugs a significant amount of potential holes in an army list, not that there are many as it is. It's very much like the XIII Legion themselves - look at the bigger picture and get the most out of what's available

One thing I did forget about was that (unless I'm mistaken), Legion Tactical Squads do not have the Objective Secured rule because the Age of Darkness detachment isn't combined arms. So giving Implacable Advance to Legion Tacticals seems quite interesting now when another option isn't preferable. Especially in battles where objectives will be hard fought for.

Yeah, I'm very excited about the potential uses of Intercept – grav-cannon Rapiers will put the kibosh on any sneaky shenanigans. Even Legion Tactical squads with Intercept will really boost the damage they can kick out against reserve-heavy armies.

I think Preternatural Strategy encourages an army to have multiple flexible multi-use units (like Legion Tacticals) rather than lots of specialists, and I can't think of a more fitting way to reward players for taking those iconic core units.

I definitely agree with your last point, I think the best way to take advantage of their rules will be to take units that can engage a large variety of targets rather than boosting very specialist units or build the army around gimmicky combos. And MSU. I think Ultras will do well with MSU.

Something that is quite fun with the "support" rules of the Ultras is that they actually are very trolly because they clearly reduce the effectiveness of the enemy's aggressive moves.