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IL X - The Fire Keepers


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#26
Hesh Kadesh

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Aww, copied my idea of a Seeker Terminator Squad :(

Bs3 Overwatch is a bit too strong. They already pump out lots of shots, so BS2 is more than enough IMHO.

Keeping them with PFists is a good balancing act in the same way that a squad of Tyrant Siege Terms costing 10ppm less would make them even more broken.

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#27
Demus Ragnok

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Oh snap. Now that you say that Hesh i remember reading that in your thread.
Dirty subconscious brain stealing ideas.

Well there are canonverse units that are copy cats( lookin at you ultramarines).

If its cool with you id like to keep them and give some in fluff credit to the Drowned.

Edited by Demus Ragnok, 17 October 2015 - 09:09 AM.

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Of Fire.

Fire gives light removing dark and shadow.

Fire gives purity driving out corruption.

Fire gives strength consuming weakness.

#28
Hesh Kadesh

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Hmmmm. Well, the Legion attaches companies to the different fleets.

Can be that the Drowned picked up the tactic from the Fire Keepers; they were initially equipped with Rotor Cannons and Havoc Launchers in imitation, picking up Preferred Enemy. It wouldn't be until they discovered the Mechanicum Abyssii that they got better weapons (tbd), so i'm happy with that? Always like Rotor Cannons, so having a reason for them in my legion with better rules if I make it a general thing.
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Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#29
Demus Ragnok

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More thread cleaning.

Edited by Demus Ragnok, 25 February 2016 - 10:20 PM.

Of Fire.

Fire gives light removing dark and shadow.

Fire gives purity driving out corruption.

Fire gives strength consuming weakness.

#30
Grifftofer

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I think they could do with a bit of a points increase. they come in at ~30points more than a standard Terminator squad but with assault cannons, an extra wound on the sergeant and a couple of useful special rules. I'd probably put them at about 220points for the squad, as they have rules that synergise well together. I do have a couple of questions though. Are they only ever meant to be 5 man squads? That's quite small, but also a nice balance factor against massive numbers of assault cannons. Why the massive point costs for the weapon upgrades? I those look like the costs that HQ characters pay for their weapons, I would suggest using the terminator squad as a basis for the points of the upgrades. You could maybe adjust them from there a bit, but I can't see anyone buying a powerfist for +25 points per model.



#31
Demus Ragnok

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While I ponder on the Stormwall further have a look at this guy.

Chief Captain Jehu 210 points
Chief Captain of Tribe Nerius,Blood Brother to the Primarch,Commander of the 333rd Expedition

WS:6 BS:5 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:5 A:4 Sv. 2+4++ Infantry(character) Unique

Wargear
Artificer Armor
Frag & Krak Grenades
Iron Halo
Bolt Pistol
Iona Wave Blade

Special Rules
Legion Astartes(Fire Keepers)
Independent Character
Master of the Legion
Jealous Command
Not Today
Orbital Bombardment
Warlord

Iona Wave Blade
These blades are the work of artificers on the Scion Hospitalier home world of Iona. Jehu received the blade he bears as tribute after leading a campaign alongside a Hospitalier force against Orks in the Oxican Gulf.

Range:- Strength: +2 AP: 3 Type: Melee, Specialist Weapon,Rending 5+,Duelists Edge, Master Crafted


Not Today
While Jehu is on the table his controlling player may force the opposing player to reroll successful reserve rolls. The second result must be taken.

Orbital Bombardment
Jehu commands the 333rd Expedition from the venerable Battle Barge Perditio Rex. In the heat of battle he can call upon the fire power of this great ship to scour enemies from the field.
Once per game if not locked in combat Jehu may call down an orbital bombardment with the following profile.

Range: Infinite Strength: 9 AP: 2 Type: Ordnance 1, Barrage, Large Blast, Orbital

Orbital: This weapons scatters the full distance regardless of the firers ballistic skill.

Warlord
Jehu always has the Strategic Genius warlord trait.

Edited by Demus Ragnok, 21 October 2015 - 12:46 PM.

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Of Fire.

Fire gives light removing dark and shadow.

Fire gives purity driving out corruption.

Fire gives strength consuming weakness.

#32
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#33
Grifftofer

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He looks good to me. Pretty well balanced with nice flexible options. Maybe a couple of points overcosted (5-10 ish), but I only say that because of Sigismund being such a heavy hitter for his 230 points.



#34
Demus Ragnok

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So now I must ask for further assistance.

I have fluff for a titan Legio that fights with the Fire Keepers and I would like to create a unique titan for the head of that Legio.

What I have in mind is a Warlord Lancer.

Any thoughts?

We shall code name this monster Ted.
Of Fire.

Fire gives light removing dark and shadow.

Fire gives purity driving out corruption.

Fire gives strength consuming weakness.

#35
Grifftofer

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Sounds like an interesting idea. I guess by a lancer you mean that it has a shield and a 'lance'-type weapon instead of it's two primary guns? I don't think that would be too hard to manage. In fact the trickiest thing I think would be balancing the shield, as it doesn't want to do too much, but also has to provide some benefit over the voidshields and other defenses that a warlord gets as standard. I may have a think about Ted's weapons today and post some ideas up later, if I have any.



#36
Chief Captain Redd

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I think that could be fething awesome!
gallery_68351_7580_48424.png

#37
Grifftofer

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Ok. So I had a couple of thoughts on the Lance and shield.

 

Jotuun Titan Power Lance

Range         S            AP          Special Rules

     -             D             1            Melee, Machine Destroyer, Swift Strike (As Cerastus Lancer)

 

For this I think just a straight trade of rules seems to be best. So this will get +1 I on the charge, but lose out on the +1 attack. I think this is fair as being able to strike first is a pretty hefty advantage. It is particularly important when it takes you from I1 to I2, like this would. I did consider giving the lance +1 I all the time along with the +1A, as well as possibly giving the Machine Destroyer on the charge, but then it would be objectively better than the fist and working out points costs for weapons on titans is a little beyond me at the moment, due to a lack of data to base things off.

 

Lasaris Ionic Shield

  • Provides an additional Void Shield. At the end of each of its controlling player's turns, if the shield has been collapsed, roll a D6 a roll of 3+ instantly restores it.
  • Increases Reinforced Structure Invulnerable Save to a 4+

This one was a little more tricky. I want there to be a noticeable difference in the Warlord's resilience, but it is already very resilient so adding too much to it would make it completely unkillable. However the loss of a big powerful titan weapon also needs to be considered. I think that this would be a significant enough increase in the warlords toughness without being too much, but it's very much a judgement call.

 

Hopefully these will spark some ideas in people, or some conversation, even if they aren't exactly what you are looking for.



#38
Hesh Kadesh

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I can't see where a Unique Warlord Titan would come into play so often. Bearing in mind the limited space available, is it really worth it? You can't field a Warlord until 11000-12200pts. Maybe in leviathan missions. I know as well, rule of cool and all, but due to the costs involved, is it not better to try and put that with a more useable Titan Frame. After all, swift strike is,not something you'd really expect on a Warlord Titan.

Perhaps just keep it simple, and allow it to be an additional Titan melee Weapon option. I'd so be very wary about giving it an increased invulnerable save as per shooting. Due toppers and a 0 the difficulty of use, and the size of the Titan it should possibly only provide improved inv save against other Super Heavy Walkers/Gargantuan Creature melee attacks. Maybe it gives another Void Shield as well. Or alternatively, give it the ability to reduce D hit damage taken by 1?

The loss of D weapons isnt massive, I use paired Saturnyne Lascutters and it is extremely killy already, before closing into assault. Sure it can't pop transports at range but its yet to not make it into assault and not crush whatever it meets.

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#39
Grifftofer

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Those are fair points I guess. Swift strike as you say is not typical of something the size of a Warlord, but on the other hand I would contend that I2 is not incredibly swift all things told :P

 

I also agree with you on the invulnerable save front, though until I checked the rules again I honestly thought it already had a 4+ invulnerable. You may be right in that adding additional void shields is a better way to do things though. I also considered something like the Lancer's shield rule to make it harder to hit in melee, but anything MC or smaller hit it on 6s and GCs and super heavy walkers hit it on 5+s so doing anything more there felt a bit harsh too. On the reducing rolls on the D table wouldn't that potentially stop anyone from hurting it. the chance of a 6 is all some things have going for them when they attack a warlord. The ability to take off a large number of HP and ignore the invulnerable save is not something I'd really like to completely get rid of. Maybe something more along the lines of the Venerable rule from Dreadnoughts? So you can force a re-roll on the Destroyer table?

 

As for the loss of main arm weapons I would contend that the secondary fire option of the lascutters is pretty powerful against basically any non-superheavy. As such you would also be losing out on that for the +1 I on the charge, pretty much. Plus by having the shield and lance you would have zero way of dealing with things within 24" without charging them, making it (admittedly theoretically) possible for enemies to kite the warlord by staying within 24" but out of likely charge range.



#40
Demus Ragnok

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Thanks for input gentlemen. I'm content with the idea of just a warlord sized lance I didn't intent an entirely "unique" titan just that the machine of the high princeps of the legio stands out.

Now that I think about it maybe a lance isn't what I'm looking for. The idea is that the Legio Tonarum are very barbaric and aggressive. The Legio symbol is a black horse, the origins supposedly going back to legends of a mythical destroyer that came riding a black horse. Fur pelts, bones, trophies stuff like that. They believe they are the embodiment of death.

Weren't there several different titan cc weapons in older games?

Also have a look at post #19 if you get time.

Edited by Demus Ragnok, 21 October 2015 - 01:10 PM.

Of Fire.

Fire gives light removing dark and shadow.

Fire gives purity driving out corruption.

Fire gives strength consuming weakness.

#41
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Well, currently, the Warlord has access to the Saturnyne Lascutter and it might be what you're looking for:

 

Ranged Profile: Hellstorm, S9 Ap2, Instant Death, Machine Destroyer (and one or two rules I'm forgetting, maybe)

Melee Profile: Melee, S:D, Ap1(2?), Machine Destroyer, etc,


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#42
Grifftofer

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Alright I've edited the units in the third post. Did away with one and I'm adding this chap. Tell me what you think

High Chaplain Hezekiah 190 points

WS:5 BS:5 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:5 A:3 Ld 10 Sv 2+

Wargear
Artificer Armor
Refractor Field
Master Crafted Volkite Serpenta
Frag & Krak grenades
Phosphex Bomb
Rod of Iron

Special Rules
Legion Astartes (Fire Keepers)
Independent Character
Preferred Enemy
Living Icon
Zealot
Warlord

Rod of Iron
Range:- S:+2 AP:4 Melee, Concussive, Instant Death(psykers/daemons)

Living Icon
Friendly units with the LA:FK rule within six inches of Hezekiah gain Zealot.

Warlord
Hezekiah always has the following Warlord Trait.
Inspiring Presence

He looks pretty good to me. A 3 wound chaplain with an area of effect zealot, he's quite a nice support character. Wouldn't want him too close to an enemy beat-stick, but just behind the front line I think he'd be awesome.



#43
Demus Ragnok

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So how bout them psykers.

Niklaas is not a fan. However.

When the primarch was united with the legion psykers would have been part of it already. My thought is Niklaas would have segregated the psykers rather than killing them. They are the Emperors warriors after all, no need wasting them. Anyway.from my very first fluff for the Fire Keepers I had Tribe Esus and Tribe Mogon attached to the 1445th expedition. Separated from the main legion force and under a human Lord Commander yet to be named. My thought is that the primarch sent all the former librarians( terrans) to be part of one of those tribes and the other tribe is there to keep an eye on them.

Given all that I had an idea for a Brotherhood of Psykers unit. But that is as far as I get. Maybe they only have access to one discipline.
Thoughts?
Of Fire.

Fire gives light removing dark and shadow.

Fire gives purity driving out corruption.

Fire gives strength consuming weakness.

#44
Grifftofer

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Pyromancy perhaps? ;)



#45
Demus Ragnok

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That was my thought. :)
Of Fire.

Fire gives light removing dark and shadow.

Fire gives purity driving out corruption.

Fire gives strength consuming weakness.

#46
simison

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I'm curious as to the fluff reason for them being limited to a single discipline.


Project Leader of the Brotherhood of the Lost

 
 

 

 

 

 

 


#47
Demus Ragnok

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I'm curious as to the fluff reason for them being limited to a single discipline.


Good question. ( pulls beard pensively)
Of Fire.

Fire gives light removing dark and shadow.

Fire gives purity driving out corruption.

Fire gives strength consuming weakness.

#48
Chief Captain Redd

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What if their single discipline was a tribute to their genesire. They focus all their will power outwardly so they can't effect their brother's minds? And instead become fearsome avatars of the Legion.
gallery_68351_7580_48424.png

#49
Hesh Kadesh

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Eh, the Drowned have a particular affinity with Telekinesis. Pre discovery Fire Keepers might have had some weaker Psykers who were unable to master general Psychic Control but due to an affinity with Fire were able to utilise pyromancy.

Out of battle they perhaps doubled as Forge Attendants.

Elites choice, all with a special rule replicating battlesmith but limiting it to one roll per unit per turn and perhaps on a 6+, with each additional member with Servo Arm adding +1 to the roll and brotherhood of sorcerors.

Move, witchfire, fix a vehicle? Squad leader with Servo Arm, all others can purchase servo arm upgrades.

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#50
simison

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It could also be a gene seed defect.

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