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The SamStar (DA deathstar unit)


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#1
depthcharge12

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Hello gentlemen, I come bearing gifts of cheese. I looked over the new dex like most of you and came up with a crazy combo that some of you might have noticed:

Sammael

RW Command Squad (6)
+ Apothecary

Darkshroud

When the Darkshroud is next to the SamStar, they get a 2+ rerollable cover save when jinking, plus a 5+ FNP. Plus Sammael has EW and a 4++ in case of ignores cover weapons. It's downright cheesy if you ask me.

On top of that, they can't be shot in over watch when starting near the Darkshroud and gain fear from it. Not to mention that the SamStar gets an additional 3" to charge distance (a 5" minimum total charge) and Hit and Run at Sammael's I5.

The rending attacks coupled with Sam's AP2 and all of the plasma shots from the whole squad will make deathstars cry.

Thoughts?
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http://www.bolterand...rus-plog-horus/


Scars of Rangdan, Dark Angels Legion:

http://www.bolterand...79#entry4575179

#2
Chaplain Lucifer

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Sounds legit. Your cheese has been approved. :)


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#3
Master Sheol

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Impressive!
I have all the model needed... I Will try it against My friend's GK soon... :P
“Battles are won by courage, by standing firm in the face of overwhelming adversity, by advancing into certain death when every instinct is screaming at you to turn.”

#4
depthcharge12

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Sounds legit. Your cheese has been approved. :)

Mmmmh sweet cheesy redemption.

The Lion cares not from whence the redemption flows, only that it flows ;)

Also, in case the unit is assaulted, take a Support squad and throw a bunch of HB, plasma, and missile shots in their face at BS5.

Yeah baby, groovy.

Edit: being shot at by non cover ignoring S10 weaponry, your chances of failing a save in the squad when jinking is a 1/54 chance (1/6 x 1/6 x 2/3).

MUWAHAHAHAHA...

*dragged kicking and screaming to cell 42*

Edited by depthcharge12, 25 June 2015 - 02:26 PM.

Sons of Horus painting log (3000+ points & Horus)

http://www.bolterand...rus-plog-horus/


Scars of Rangdan, Dark Angels Legion:

http://www.bolterand...79#entry4575179

#5
Ishagu

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The Ravenwing Command Squad is hands down one of the best biker units in the game. With the 2+ Jink re roll it can harass an army all game long. Sammy isn't bad in a fight, either!

I'm fully convinced this codex will create some very powerful builds :-)

Edited by Ishagu, 25 June 2015 - 02:27 PM.

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#6
Frater Cornelius

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I used that setup today in my 2k points game. I will post batrep and a humble unit analysis based on their performance ;)

Be excellent to one another, and lean on your brothers and sisters when your patience grows slim

 


#7
depthcharge12

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I used that setup today in my 2k points game. I will post batrep and a humble unit analysis based on their performance ;)


In the famous words of the Primarch:

"Flank 'em, and spank 'em"
Sons of Horus painting log (3000+ points & Horus)

http://www.bolterand...rus-plog-horus/


Scars of Rangdan, Dark Angels Legion:

http://www.bolterand...79#entry4575179

#8
Ishagu

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The great thing about this unit is that it doesn't require allies, and is really cheap considering it's survivability - around 560 points for everything needed.

-~Ishagu~-


#9
WellSpokenMan

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Why run just the Darkshroud, run the whole RWSS behind ol' Sammy.


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"Only in death does duty end.  Only in death can justice be earned" - Sammael, Grand Master of the Ravenwing


#10
depthcharge12

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Why run just the Darkshroud, run the whole RWSS behind ol' Sammy.


Well we've got to give them a chance.....

...just kidding. Club them like baby seals.
Sons of Horus painting log (3000+ points & Horus)

http://www.bolterand...rus-plog-horus/


Scars of Rangdan, Dark Angels Legion:

http://www.bolterand...79#entry4575179

#11
Jazzhands

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The s10 hit would remove feel no pain

#12
depthcharge12

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The s10 hit would remove feel no pain


True, but then you still have a 2+ rerollable cover save when jinking sooooo yeah.

Plus, if it's a single shot, you can tank it on Sammy who has EW, who I believe will still be able to take the FNP in addition to his 2+/4++ since he can't be ID.
Sons of Horus painting log (3000+ points & Horus)

http://www.bolterand...rus-plog-horus/


Scars of Rangdan, Dark Angels Legion:

http://www.bolterand...79#entry4575179

#13
Frater Cornelius

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FnP gets cancelled when it is ID, regardless of EW. The Typhon Heavy Siege Tank is their new worst enemy now :D

Be excellent to one another, and lean on your brothers and sisters when your patience grows slim

 


#14
Ishagu

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But Eternal Warrior ignores instant death so how does it negate FnP?

Anyways, this is a great unit because it can run up to a squad of Eldar jet bikes and slaughter them. It can take their firepower no problem.

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#15
Jazzhands

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Ew doesn't ignore id it just reduces the number of wounds suffered to one

#16
Stoic Raptor

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In the famous words of the Primarch:

"Flank 'em, and spank 'em"

 

 

Congratulations depthcharge, you just sold me on a Darkshroud.


Death smiles at us all, but all a man can do is smile back.
Execute every act of thy life as though it were thy last.  - Marcus Aurelius
 

 


#17
Ishagu

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Ew doesn't ignore id it just reduces the number of wounds suffered to one


Fair enough, I've not looked at the wording for a while. Still, I'll be making this unit as it's a relatively small point and time investment.

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#18
Wariax

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Hello gentlemen, I come bearing gifts of cheese. I looked over the new dex like most of you and came up with a crazy combo that some of you might have noticed:

Sammael

RW Command Squad (6)
+ Apothecary

Darkshroud

When the Darkshroud is next to the SamStar, they get a 2+ rerollable cover save when jinking, plus a 5+ FNP. Plus Sammael has EW and a 4++ in case of ignores cover weapons. It's downright cheesy if you ask me.

On top of that, they can't be shot in over watch when starting near the Darkshroud and gain fear from it. Not to mention that the SamStar gets an additional 3" to charge distance (a 5" minimum total charge) and Hit and Run at Sammael's I5.

The rending attacks coupled with Sam's AP2 and all of the plasma shots from the whole squad will make deathstars cry.

Thoughts?

 

How about to add a mighty Interrogator-Chaplain on bike with a Mace of Redemption + an eye of prefered enemy? Let's go further:

- add a mighty Chapter Master on bike with Hammer and Ethernal Shield from Iron Hands (4+ feel no pain anyone?)

- add a Space Marine Librarians conclave, 3 of them will be enough, of course all on bike. Also from IH for better FnP. 6 levels of magic. Good chance to get invisibility.

 

Whole squad also should have a banner of easy Hit and Run.

There is more option of this combo with using HQ from Space Wolfes codex.


nojajebie.jpg


#19
Ultra Magnus

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Defensively it is a very strong combo but the only practical strategy to take advantage of it is if you are looking to charge in and get this squad into melee and why would you do that? They aren't slouches in melee but they are generally better outside of it, bringing down AP2 rapid fire and blasts at range. If you aren't in melee then you have just spend a crap ton of points tied to a unit that I can cheaply force to jink by say, firing a lascannon at it, and thus render your entire deathstar a pile of useless points.

 

Everyone is getting all excited about jink but realize it is not without cost. Your jinking unit is NOT SHOOTING while it is doing so and is offensively neutered. You will eventually fail a jink save before your opponent runs out of bullets... 

 

And besides you could have achieved something similar in the last dex with a PFG. 4+ invulnerable that couldn't be removed and you could shoot through to your heart's content.



#20
depthcharge12

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Defensively it is a very strong combo but the only practical strategy to take advantage of it is if you are looking to charge in and get this squad into melee and why would you do that? They aren't slouches in melee but they are generally better outside of it, bringing down AP2 rapid fire and blasts at range. If you aren't in melee then you have just spend a crap ton of points tied to a unit that I can cheaply force to jink by say, firing a lascannon at it, and thus render your entire deathstar a pile of useless points.

Everyone is getting all excited about jink but realize it is not without cost. Your jinking unit is NOT SHOOTING while it is doing so and is offensively neutered. You will eventually fail a jink save before your opponent runs out of bullets...

And besides you could have achieved something similar in the last dex with a PFG. 4+ invulnerable that couldn't be removed and you could shoot through to your heart's content.


True, but that's why you assess that case by case.

You already have a native 3+/5+ FNP plus an additional 4+ cover save when around the DS I you want to shoot.

You can also mitigate this your first or second turn by jinking with the turbo boost with the RW detachment and still being able to fire without penalty your following turn.

That's where the player skill comes into play and your level of judgement and experience with situations. It's trial and error, but a good player can do nasty things with the unit.
Sons of Horus painting log (3000+ points & Horus)

http://www.bolterand...rus-plog-horus/


Scars of Rangdan, Dark Angels Legion:

http://www.bolterand...79#entry4575179

#21
Ishagu

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As a unit it will look quite menacing on the table. The opposing player will likely dedicate fire to it at the expense of ignoring your other units.

-~Ishagu~-


#22
Zectz

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Defensively it is a very strong combo but the only practical strategy to take advantage of it is if you are looking to charge in and get this squad into melee and why would you do that? They aren't slouches in melee but they are generally better outside of it, bringing down AP2 rapid fire and blasts at range. If you aren't in melee then you have just spend a crap ton of points tied to a unit that I can cheaply force to jink by say, firing a lascannon at it, and thus render your entire deathstar a pile of useless points.

Everyone is getting all excited about jink but realize it is not without cost. Your jinking unit is NOT SHOOTING while it is doing so and is offensively neutered. You will eventually fail a jink save before your opponent runs out of bullets.

I think you're forgetting a few things here. With the new ravenwing detachment you can claim the jink without having to snap fire in the next turn so there's that.

Even if you jink and are forced to snap fire, you can still fire... And twin linked as well... It's actually a big difference to your mentality of the unit "NOT SHOOTING". Snap shooting with x6 rapid fire will give you 3/4 hits.

You make it seem like the points cost of the unit is mostly due to its shooting phase. The points increase from regular bikes to black Knights gives you extra leadership, Attack, +1 strength, rending, skilled rider as well... I think the units points worth is equal in shooting and melee. Especially having skilled rider giving you that bonus to jink, the unit is intended to make use of it.

Edited by Zectz, 25 June 2015 - 05:25 PM.


#23
Ultra Magnus

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It is certainly not useless but I just wanted to point out some of the limitations because I think people are getting a bit overheated about jinxing. Even remember that with the formation bonus, you have to turbo boost your first turn to get it which means you are again NOT SHOOTING. It is not a free gift by any means. Previously a RW Bike Squad could Scout 12" and on most boards be within 4X BoD rapid fire range FIRST TURN. That type of alpha strike has been eliminated in the new dec. The new GW mandated play style is either to set up for a turn 2 RW strike or to get in close, survive, and then bring down your DW scatter free right on top of them. Not a bad thing by any means just more multi wing synergistic than ravening  solo oriented.


 

Defensively it is a very strong combo but the only practical strategy to take advantage of it is if you are looking to charge in and get this squad into melee and why would you do that? They aren't slouches in melee but they are generally better outside of it, bringing down AP2 rapid fire and blasts at range. If you aren't in melee then you have just spend a crap ton of points tied to a unit that I can cheaply force to jink by say, firing a lascannon at it, and thus render your entire deathstar a pile of useless points.

Everyone is getting all excited about jink but realize it is not without cost. Your jinking unit is NOT SHOOTING while it is doing so and is offensively neutered. You will eventually fail a jink save before your opponent runs out of bullets.


I think you're forgetting a few things here. With the new ravenwing detachment you can claim the jink without having to snap fire in the next turn so there's that.

Even if you jink and are forced to snap fire, you can still fire... And twin linked as well... It's actually a big difference to your mentality of the unit "NOT SHOOTING". Snap f

 

As I mentioned claiming the first turn jinx isn't free, it costs me a turn of shooting to Turbo boost. Also yes I can snap fire but when my chance of killing myself with Get's Hot is the same as my chance of killing the other guy I am not terribly excited about the prospect. 



#24
Frater Cornelius

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If you take Knights, you take them for their melee power. They will be jinking all the time anyway. The advantage is that they will make it slive into melee. I tried them and they did little shooting and did most damage in melee.

Be excellent to one another, and lean on your brothers and sisters when your patience grows slim

 


#25
SvenONE

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In the famous words of the Primarch:

"Flank 'em, and spank 'em"

 

 

Congratulations depthcharge, you just sold me on a Darkshroud.

 

 

Darkshrouds are the bomb. 

 

I would just bear in mind that as cool as it is to re-roll your jink.  It doesn't increase your offensive power, which if you ask me is the prime reason you want Black Knights.

 

Consider the following:

 

Assuming we are running the RW detachment with Sammael and our 2 FA being a RWCS and a Darkshroud, we can assume that they are invoking the Speed of the Raven rule and Turbo boosting.  This means that on turn 1, sure, you're able to re-roll your jink, but you're forgoing firing completely to shoot in the second turn.  That's a pretty situational decision.

 

Alternatively, if you have 1st turn, you can Scout->Shoot-> Jink if need be in your opponent's shooting phase, and then move/fire/Snapshot in your second turn.

 

While that unit you mentioned will probably be pretty common, I wouldn't overestimate the Ravenwing ability.  It does have its drawbacks.

 

I'd also note that with clever placement you don't even have to jink.

 

Sequence:

Move

Shoot

Turbo-Boost Darkshroud IN FRONT of Sammael & CO

 

At this point you don't even need to jink as you're getting a 5+ cover from the obscuring Darkshroud, and a +1 from the Stealth it's providing.  Let them shoot the Darkshroud all they want.


Edited by SvenONE, 25 June 2015 - 05:35 PM.

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