Big Bad Squig Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 An idea to make the lost legions has been rattling around in my crazed brain for some time now either in the Heresy Era or as hangers-on for 40k. I figured this would be the place to ask about it. Just tell me what you think: whether these ideas make sense, are original, and most importantly is undertaking a project like this worthwhile? II Legion: - Primarch is a blank - Unlike the other primarchs, he challenges and defeats the emperor when they first meet (because he is a blank) - Society based loosely on Russian revolution - Primarch killed because he wanted more equality between Imperium and the xenos - Grey and orange scheme? XI Legion: - Ghost themed - Precursors to the Sons of Malice (so buy into the whole anarchy shenanigans) - Flaw in the gene seed akin to schizophrenia, making the legionnaires unpredictable (develops as they age) - Primarch kills II legion Primarch when he and the wolves are sent to communicate with him - Self-imposed ?extra-galactic? exile after the Primarch sees what he has become - Some escape and become Sons of malice as above Just an idea, so don't be afraid to be critical if needs be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Blank primarchs is something that seems very popular, but which usually ends up differently. It really depends on what you see as the consequences of this idiosyncrasy: does it affect only the Primarch, the Legion as a whole, or only a small cadre, much like librarians? Speaking of librarians, what would a Blank's stance on psykers? What series of event would lead to the primarch being executed? Surely the Emperor would not afford the loss of his greatest creation for something of such little consequence. He would probably get a good censure, like old Lorgar. I suggest getting things to go downhill from there. XI being involved in the fall of II is something I personally like. Had a similar idea for my take on the Forgotten and the Purged. However there seems to be plenty of overlap between them and the Night Lords. I'd try to make them stand out as a legion on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Hadn't seen the similarity with the NL; thanks for pointing that out. Also, in my head the Emperor didn't want to destroy the II legion but bring them back into compliance, however things escalated with the arrival of the XI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I was thinking of doing a Native American themed legion that has apothecaries (Medicine Men) playing a big role within the legion. Elders, such as Dreadnoughts carry a lot of weight in decisions made within the legion. I was actually going to intend that they never find their Primarch, therefore their geneseed never fully stabilizes and they cannot expand like the other legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 The idea of not finding their Primarch is a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I like the idea of a blank Primarch, its feels like an area the Emperor would have tried to dable in. Giving the nature of blanks, and how uncomfortable they make people, I doubt he would have had may friends. You could always explore other possible downsides to being souless. I like the idea of anarchy marines, maybe the XI Primarch never died, maybe he changed his name to Omegon..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Oh don't tempt me with thoughts of Alphas; I'm close already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Given the rediscovery order of the Primarchs (the lost ones being third and nineteenth), there's also the possibility of a Primarch outright rejecting his legion's Terran identity, forged by two centuries of service, much like Corax did, and the Legion not tolerating their progenitor's measures either. Could lead to growing tensions, culminating in tragic events. That's what I'm planning to do for the IInd if I ever get my writing productivity back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Given the rediscovery order of the Primarchs (the lost ones being third and nineteenth), there's also the possibility of a Primarch outright rejecting his legion's Terran identity, forged by two centuries of service, much like Corax did, and the Legion not tolerating their progenitor's measures either. Could lead to growing tensions, culminating in tragic events. That's what I'm planning to do for the IInd if I ever get my writing productivity back. Hmm, what about the Primarch not wanting to join the legion and the Imperium? Maybe the legion and the Primarch/home world forces destroy eachother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 What if the Primarch was killed on his homeworld. May expalin the schizophrenia as a sort of physcic backlash that sent them compleatly mad once they discovered the body being used as trophey by the world leaders. The legion rampage that grows pit of control snd they need to be put down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Given the rediscovery order of the Primarchs (the lost ones being third and nineteenth), there's also the possibility of a Primarch outright rejecting his legion's Terran identity, forged by two centuries of service, much like Corax did, and the Legion not tolerating their progenitor's measures either. Could lead to growing tensions, culminating in tragic events. That's what I'm planning to do for the IInd if I ever get my writing productivity back. Hmm, what about the Primarch not wanting to join the legion and the Imperium? Maybe the legion and the Primarch/home world forces destroy eachother? That'd be more sudden than I'd have expected. I see a IInd legion that bears the pride of being the "first" of the actual legions, the Primus being more akin to prototypes, precursors, whilst the Second were the earliest of the true Astartes. Then this guy comes in, rejects them, and musters a new generation of marines, for the Emperor. His homeworld's culture is so dissimilar to that of his "sons" that the first and second generations are as different as the White Scars and Death Guard, from their hierarchy to their tactics. Most refuse to change their livery. The most radical devise a plot. to depose this unworthy sire. Civil war erupts on the homeworld as, for the first time, Astartes open fire on Astartes. To quell the rebellion, the Emperor decides to dispatch a few legions, but does not have enough information to know which side must be supported. Neither does the taskforce. In the aftermath, the Second is dead, and both sides of his legion have been annihilated. ...this may have brought my productivity back. Potentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 In my head, the Second are a bit like this: The Primarch's pod arrives on a planet ruled by very few wealthy individuals, while the rest of the population live in abject poverty and starve. Even among the poor family he finds himself adopted by he is shunned due to his peculiar complexion, strange size and the feeling of unease people get when around him. One day, by chance, a nobleman encounters the Primarch (still a young boy) and brings him into the courts as a 'new attraction', as it were. Although he is only young, the Primarch has been taught to hate the aristocracy by his family. He seizes on this oppurtunity to change his world for the better. He weasels his way into the ranks of the noblemen until he comes into contact with the king. One night, the king invites him to his chambers to discuss matters of importance. While he is not looking, the Primarch stabs the king in the back with his own dagger, and wreaks havoc in the courts. Those nobles that do not flee are killed. Some try to raise armies, but the soldiers refuse to fight, instead falling under the command of the Primarch. The Primarch preaches a message of equality, saying that never again should the world be ruled by heartless aristocracy. Then the Emperor arrives. When the ships land, the Primarch and his people come to meet the offlanders. They ask what they are doing here. When the Emperor asks the Primarch to swear allegiance to him in exchange for the II legion, the Primarch attacks him, saying that he owes allegiance to none. The Emperor and his Custodes bodyguards try to restrain him, but the Primarch tears through them to reach the Emperor, who finds he is powerless against the blank. He is defeated completely, and is only saved from death by the arrival of another fifty or so Custodes. Once the Primarch has calmed down, the Emperor and Horus persuade him to align with them for the good of humanity, saying that all across the galaxy humans are being oppressed under cruel xenos rulers, like he was on his world. He reluctantly agrees, but once he sees what Horus and the Emperor have said is true, he and his legion fight with surprising vigour. As the crusade progresses, however, the Primarch and his legion begin to see that they are becoming the tyrants they are fighting to destroy. They return to their world to contemplate what to do next. The Emperor hears of this, and sends the Space wolves and the eleventh legion to talk to the Primarch and attempt to bring him back under his control. Leman Russ finds him reinforcing his citadel on the edge of a mountain. The Primarch says he believes humanity is not superior to xenos, and wants the Imperium to adopt a more peaceful approach. Russ tells him that they were not sent to attack him, only to reason with him. At this point, the Primarch of the eleventh finds the citadel. He is enraged by this perceived betrayal, and draws his weapon on the Primarch of the second. The second surrenders, saying he does not want to fight any longer, to which the eleventh responds by throwing him from the side of the mountain. When asked about it later, the eleventh says he has no recollection of the event, and the Emperor orders it deleted from records to preserve both his sons' reputations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 In my head, the Second are a bit like this: The Primarch's pod arrives on a planet ruled by very few wealthy individuals, while the rest of the population live in abject poverty and starve. Even among the poor family he finds himself adopted by he is shunned due to his peculiar complexion, strange size and the feeling of unease people get when around him. One day, by chance, a nobleman encounters the Primarch (still a young boy) and brings him into the courts as a 'new attraction', as it were. Although he is only young, the Primarch has been taught to hate the aristocracy by his family. He seizes on this oppurtunity to change his world for the better. He weasels his way into the ranks of the noblemen until he comes into contact with the king. One night, the king invites him to his chambers to discuss matters of importance. While he is not looking, the Primarch stabs the king in the back with his own dagger, and wreaks havoc in the courts. Those nobles that do not flee are killed. Some try to raise armies, but the soldiers refuse to fight, instead falling under the command of the Primarch. The Primarch preaches a message of equality, saying that never again should the world be ruled by heartless aristocracy. Then the Emperor arrives. When the ships land, the Primarch and his people come to meet the offlanders. They ask what they are doing here. When the Emperor asks the Primarch to swear allegiance to him in exchange for the II legion, the Primarch attacks him, saying that he owes allegiance to none. The Emperor and his Custodes bodyguards try to restrain him, but the Primarch tears through them to reach the Emperor, who finds he is powerless against the blank. He is defeated completely, and is only saved from death by the arrival of another fifty or so Custodes. Once the Primarch has calmed down, the Emperor and Horus persuade him to align with them for the good of humanity, saying that all across the galaxy humans are being oppressed under cruel xenos rulers, like he was on his world. He reluctantly agrees, but once he sees what Horus and the Emperor have said is true, he and his legion fight with surprising vigour. As the crusade progresses, however, the Primarch and his legion begin to see that they are becoming the tyrants they are fighting to destroy. They return to their world to contemplate what to do next. The Emperor hears of this, and sends the Space wolves and the eleventh legion to talk to the Primarch and attempt to bring him back under his control. Leman Russ finds him reinforcing his citadel on the edge of a mountain. The Primarch says he believes humanity is not superior to xenos, and wants the Imperium to adopt a more peaceful approach. Russ tells him that they were not sent to attack him, only to reason with him. At this point, the Primarch of the eleventh finds the citadel. He is enraged by this perceived betrayal, and draws his weapon on the Primarch of the second. The second surrenders, saying he does not want to fight any longer, to which the eleventh responds by throwing him from the side of the mountain. When asked about it later, the eleventh says he has no recollection of the event, and the Emperor orders it deleted from records to preserve both his sons' reputations. I don't think the blank could completely de-power the Emps. In ATS, the sisters of silence don't completely prevent the thousand sons from killing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I don't think the blank could completely de-power the Emps. In ATS, the sisters of silence don't completely prevent the thousand sons from killing them. Yeah, that's the only problem I see with this story. The rest sounds great and I'm eager to see it developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Glad you guys like it; if I can push through the vicious heatwave to go to GW I might pick up a tactical squad to try out a colour scheme. Does anyone know whether it's easy enough to convert new SM into MK 4? About the blank thing; on second viewing I agree that the big E would not be drained entirely of power; I'll just rewrite it so that they are about equals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Commenting and being too lazy to copy-paste my stuff over. Check the link in my sig. Given the rediscovery order of the Primarchs (the lost ones being third and nineteenth), there's also the possibility of a Primarch outright rejecting his legion's Terran identity, forged by two centuries of service, much like Corax did, and the Legion not tolerating their progenitor's measures either. Could lead to growing tensions, culminating in tragic events. ^ Coincidentally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeyray Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Always believed No. II was Elvis incarnate, imagine it. Ruling a planet, calling yourself "The King" then some bozo comes along calling himself "The Emperor" (Who shares a fondness for white, gold and jewels.) and starts trying to boss you about. Makes sense to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Always believed No. II was Elvis incarnate, imagine it. Ruling a planet, calling yourself "The King" then some bozo comes along calling himself "The Emperor" (Who shares a fondness for white, gold and jewels.) and starts trying to boss you about. Makes sense to me! ...and that's why he left the building ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I've always stuck to the Major Arcana Tarot interpretation: http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html And I believe Athrawes's Lightning Bearers exemplify the 2nd legion extraordinarily well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 I've always stuck to the Major Arcana Tarot interpretation: http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html And I believe Athrawes's Lightning Bearers exemplify the 2nd legion extraordinarily well. Haven't seen that link before. I think a blank primarch would have to be the High Priestess, meaning that the XI primarch would be Fortune (before he went insane). Talking of Primarchs: - Are there any cultures that do not have a representation among the legions? (I haven't been able to find any Indian or arabic based legions, but that might be my own ineptitude) - How should I go about coming up with names for them? - How should I come up with rules for XI / a points cost for II (as I already have a firm idea of II's rules) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 Also, I was thinking of a orange scheme for the II, with those who have manifested the pariah gene being dark grey with orange shoulderpads. What do people think about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The idea of a pariah primarch is cool but sadly doesn't really fit with the established dynamic of the primarchs. The primarchs are each a reflection of the emperor, they represent one of his facets in the extreme in most cases. Magnus the ultimate psyker because that is the part of the emperor he represents, Vulkan is a perpetual because the emperor is one as well. The emperor is many things but he is not a psychic blank. His ability to bring order to chaos with his mind is an indication of his psychic prowess, not as a psychic blank. If he was part 'blank" he would never have been able to communicate with Magnus or deal with the chaos gods to create the primarchs in the first place. The chaos gods fear him not because he is a blank and can nullify their influence, but instead because his psychic might is such that he can smother other forces around him, his very presence exudes order in the world and forces around him. Another point to consider is that psychic blanks are not a natural occurance in the warhammer world, they are characteristic of the parish gene which was added to the human genome by the necrontyr/c'tan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I don't think the Emperor would be much slowed by a blank, Primarch or not. Canonically, Mephiston has overloaded one's powers before and he's basically a strong mouse compared to the Emperor's freight train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 The idea of a pariah primarch is cool but sadly doesn't really fit with the established dynamic of the primarchs. The primarchs are each a reflection of the emperor, they represent one of his facets in the extreme in most cases. Another point to consider is that psychic blanks are not a natural occurance in the warhammer world, they are characteristic of the parish gene which was added to the human genome by the necrontyr/c'tan I thought that the necron origin of the pariah gene was just something that had been theorised by the mechanicus. The idea of him being a pseudo-blank ('his psychic might is such that he can smother other forces around him') is nice though, and it sidesteps the issue quite well. Also, if the gene was added and is not naturally occuring, could the Emperor feasibly have implanted it in one of the primarchs to make him a pariah? Just thinking that because if all the primarchs were created with a purpose, it seems odd to me that none would be able to counteract the psychic power of, say, the eldar. On another note, my conversion to maximus armour from the tactical squad bits is well underway. Expect pictures soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 XI legion model pre-paint http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll24/demarcs/c89d56d0-f854-40bd-ab11-5398fd63c6dc_zpspgrghoii.jpg I see this legion as a more ranged legion, popping up from where you least expect, peppering you with bolts and then disappearing again. II legion model (this one specifically is a null): http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll24/demarcs/56e0e182-26ee-4536-b20f-d870f838d200_zpsyvowurc9.jpg I am madly painting my orks for a game tomorrow, but if I get time they will see a bit of paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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