164 replies to this topic

[Father Mehman]

Alright gents and, if there are any, ladies, I've finally come to terms with not wanting to play Dark Angels. What had been holding me back for so long was my idea that they were having a pity party that spanned the millennia. After careful consideration and much thought, I've come to the conclusion that my earlier belief is hogwash. There are a lot of deeper things going on behind the scenes and that has piqued my interest.

In saying that, I am at a loss as I have very little information on how Dark Angel Successor Chapters work and this is what I want to create. I feel enough people have created proper DA armies and, to be honest, I'm not a fan of Caliban Green. Here is what I have so far in my noodle about my DIY:

-They are an esoteric order that divine where Fallen will show themselves. They go so far into this occult mindset that everyone in the Chapter, from Novice to Veteran, have different levels they can be promoted to based on retention and work with ancient tomes and documents. Basically, each brother is a warrior-monk, well versed in metaphysical science and deadly with bolter and blade.

-They hail from a harsh desert Death World where they find the indigenous people to be very hardy stock. There is some interaction with the people but that is yet to be expanded.

-I would like their armour to be a sand colour with bronze Aquila and accents. Their robes would be brown sackcloth. Does this in some way go against DA Successor Chapter livery?

That's all of my questions so far. Any basic help on how Successors work and also your thoughts on my current fluff would be most appreciated.

 

EDIT- A little facelift on the thread's name !

Edited by Father Mehman, 24 May 2018 - 09:57 PM.

[CarbonBased]

Sounds good to me! But maybe we'll let a more knowledgeable person answer.

After all, my DA successors are orange and yellow.

[Grand Master Belial]

While I sense a Dune vibe, there is nothing in what you have provided that goes against the lore of the Unforgiven.

I do have a competition to fluff out your successor that runs until the 15th. You are free to join in.

I am curious about what color you plan to use as your sand color for the armor. Besides Bronze, what other spot color do you plan to use?

[Father Mehman]

Now that you got me thinking, I believe white on the cowling of the weapons along with purple eye lenses should suffice for a nice spot colour. Their armour will be painted thusly:

Steel Legion Drab base
Zandri Dust layer
Seraphim Sepia wash
Ushabti Bone drybrush

It'll make them look like a sandstorm! I saw the competition earlier and it sounds like fun. I'll vow for it tomorrow, for sure.

[mithrilforge]

Now that you got me thinking, I believe white on the cowling of the weapons along with purple eye lenses should suffice for a nice spot colour. Their armour will be painted thusly:

Steel Legion Drab base
Zandri Dust layer
Seraphim Sepia wash
Ushabti Bone drybrush

It'll make them look like a sandstorm! I saw the competition earlier and it sounds like fun. I'll vow for it tomorrow, for sure.

  ...aaaahhhhh For the emperors sake! don't drybrush marine armour. i can see in my mind where your going with this colour and it looks way cool 

Purple lenses is a winner, the cloaks will be your sticking point as you still want them a brownish desert colour but don't want to make the armour disappear into it (here rise's the ever present problem of real life colour choices not matching/scaling on models ). bronze aquila's heraldry sounds like a great match too...

the cloaks might work in an orangey brown ?!?...you need to contrast the armour but still keep a brown base there....

 

Good luck and i really look fwd to seeing your idea's come to fruition

Cheers,mithril

 

P.S. if i recall a frater on here a couple years ago did a desert themed marine army called the desert eagles....hmmm ? searchy?...

 

Found it for ya - 

http://www.bolterand...-desert-eagles/

Edited by mithrilforge, 02 July 2015 - 04:51 AM.

[Myrkul]

You can also try basing in either Mechanicus Standard Grey, Eshin Grey, or Skavenblight Dinge. Have your main layer Stormvermin Fur and highlight in Dawnstone or like color.

It comes out to a dark sandy grey. Thay way you have desert tone, but have a contrast when using a lighter sand color scheme.

[Phoebus]

In saying that, I am at a loss as I have very little information on how Dark Angel Successor Chapters work ...

 

Greetings, Mehman!

 

Regarding the lore and background of your Chapter, here is what I can contribute. You'll notice I've thrown some spoilers below. None of them are really serious material, but I don't want to surprise anyone with even minor background bits that they may prefer to enjoy when they purchase the novel or game product referenced.

First, the Founding is belongs to. Traditional lore named only three Successors as specifically belonging to the Second Founding: the Angels of Absolution, the Angels of Redemption, and the Angels of Vengeance. That having been said, the novel The Unforgiven, by Gav Thorpe states that ...

 

Spoiler

“The first Inner Circle consisted of twelve Grand Masters, the Chapter Master of the Dark Angels and his peers that ruled the eleven Successors of that time.”

Excerpt From: Gav Thorpe. “The Unforgiven.” iBooks.

 

Furthermore, Dataslate: Cypher, the Lord of the Fallen names ...

 

Spoiler

“... the last of the Second Founding Chapters created from the Dark Angels gene-seed, the ill-fated Lions Sable.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Dataslate: Cypher - Lord of the Fallen (Enhanced Edition).” Games Workshop, 2013. iBooks. https://itun.es/us/KKe3U.l

 

So that gives you some room to play with if you want your Successor Chapter of the Unforgiven to be truly ancient.

 

Regarding knowledge of the Fallen, The Unforgiven strongly implies that the Chapter Master of a Successor even as learned in lore as the Consecrators knows considerably less than Azrael. In fact, there is knowledge that the innermost (depending on your interpretation) circle of the Inner Circle of the Dark Angels Chapter is privy to that the Consecrators Chapter Master is unaware of. Fittingly, The Unforgiven qualifies that only Azrael is Supreme Grand Master; the Chapter Master of the Consecrators is qualified as a Grand Master. As such, one might assume that this worthy had a level of knowledge roughly equivalent to what, e.g., Belial might have known prior to the events of this novel.

[Gillyfish]

One of the DA successors (Angels of Absolution I believe) consider that their deeds since the Fall have expunged their guilt, but that the secret should still be kept. You could potentially decide that your Chapter has been more heavily influenced by that Chapter than the DA themselves, but might still be part of the Unforgiven and be engaged in the hunt for the Fallen.

 

That might also fit with the colour scheme you are thinking of as the Angels of Absolution have bone coloured armour - sand coloured would be a reasonable echo of that.

 

Perhaps have a think about what colours you might want your Death and Ravenwing equivalents to be too.

[Father Mehman]

If nothing else comes from this but a small force and some fluff, I've found some great people ! Hopefully, it will grow out of control.

 

@Mithril- I would usually agree with you on the drybrushing of marine armour but my Imperial Knight for the ETL came out pretty nice and I think it might look alright on a whole force of models. Plus, it's the only way I can achieve the effect I'm looking for . Thanks very much for the link- very neat work going on there.

 

A picture of my Knight Errant follows. For those not wishing to see it, don't click on the spoiler.

Spoiler

 

@Myrkul- I think that range of colours is what I'll have to do. Great idea !

 

@Phoebus- That makes me rethink my stance on the Fallen and what my Chapter thinks about them. Back to the drawing board there. What other reasons would a Successor Chapter feel guilty about so that they feel the need for redemption? I think I better get the codex.

 

@Gillyfish- Angels of Absolution Successors then. I'll find out more about them, post haste. Hmm, more ideas for the Idea Monster to munch upon. He shall be sated this day!

[Bryan Blaire]

Mehman, it will be very interesting to see where you take this. Their origin world sounds very similar to that of my Stoneburners (one of the ranks in the Stoneburners is actually "Knight of the Scouring Whirlwind"), so I'm looking forward to seeing where you go with your idea. I agree with Gillyfish, it could be interesting to expand on the line of thinking of the Angels of Absolution, but that may not be the direction you were planning on taking them. The Stoneburners were heavily influenced by the Angels of Vengeance, who they are descended from, so an alternative Successor view point with a similar origin would be pretty neat to play with.

Love the Knight though, he looks awesome!

[Father Mehman]

Thank you for the compliment, Bryan ! He was fun to paint...once he was done. All those armour panels were easy but the bronze took the longest. I digress.

 

I must say that your Stoneburners were one of the reasons I joined the B&C. I saw the high level of care you place in them and all the positivity surrounding yours and others' work that I knew it was the right place to be. That being said, I think I'll have to take a look at the codex before I go any further on this project. There's too much information that needs to be loaded into my brain for me to make sense of it. It's good to know I'm on the right track, though.

[march10k]

Now that you got me thinking, I believe white on the cowling of the weapons along with purple eye lenses should suffice for a nice spot colour. Their armour will be painted thusly:

Steel Legion Drab base
Zandri Dust layer
Seraphim Sepia wash
Ushabti Bone drybrush

It'll make them look like a sandstorm! I saw the competition earlier and it sounds like fun. I'll vow for it tomorrow, for sure.

 

I vaguely recall a chapter called stormlords, they looked a little like this, only with a slightly greenish tinge..

[mithrilforge]

Last night during Ad-Mech painting i did a lil tester of your idea, i couldn't help myself cause the idea's so cool!!

only his right leg is sorta done...

 

 

Cheers Mithril

[AngelVeto]

Only think I can think to contribute at the moment is would a successor of a successor chaptmer master be only ranked as a master, or would they also be considered a grand master in the scheme of the inner circle?

[Father Mehman]

@Mithril- I don't know what to say, mate. Thanks doesn't really cut it. I'm actually honoured that you did that. It may or may not mean much to you but it does mean a lot to me. Also, I'm on tablet so no smilies tonight. Also, the paint job looks splendid!

@AngelVeto- That sounds like a brain twister. I'll have to meditate on that one.

[mithrilforge]

@Mithril- I don't know what to say, mate. Thanks doesn't really cut it. I'm actually honoured that you did that. It may or may not mean much to you but it does mean a lot to me. Also, I'm on tablet so no smilies tonight. Also, the paint job looks splendid!

@AngelVeto- That sounds like a brain twister. I'll have to meditate on that one.

No Problemo bud, as i said i'm in love with your idea   i started with mournfang brown instead of steel drab as it makes for a richer over coat and i don't have zandri dust so i'm experimenting with XV-88 instead (don't tell or it'll be the special cell under the rock for me...a xeno's colour ) i'm doing brass scorpion on the chest eagle and backpack vents at lunchtime today....i'm going to work on the shoulderpads this weekend as i don't know which way to go with em...you were just doing a standard sword n wing shoulderpad right?... ...any idea on your chapter badge...scorpion, talon, sand snake? (GoT reference)

i want to put some orange in there somewhere...or not... i'm getting ahead of myself...lets just finish him first and then look to adding colour's

 

Mithril

 

p.s i was reading the white dwarf last night with the assassins box set in it and saw a cultist with greyish robes and bone highlights...it struck me that that might make an excellent robe colour for your desert guys...??    

 

++Edit++

found the lil blighter 

 

Edited by mithrilforge, 03 July 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[mithrilforge]

double post 

a bit more...

 

 

cheers, Mithril

p.s. the model was originally from my very old black templar army (their so yesterday ) hence the 90's basing   

Edited by mithrilforge, 03 July 2015 - 04:09 AM.

[Grand Master Belial]

Only think I can think to contribute at the moment is would a successor of a successor chaptmer master be only ranked as a master, or would they also be considered a grand master in the scheme of the inner circle?

I've always regarded Chapter Masters of Successors as Grand Masters. Captains are Masters along with Master of Chaplains, the Apothecarium, Librarians and the Forge. 

[Father Mehman]

@Mithril- He's looking great! I'm seriously rethinking the drybrush idea. Although I do love how it comes out, I've already got Scions with ivory armour using the drybrushing technique so it might be time to branch out and try what you're doing. To be honest, there is a test model somewhere with this colour scheme in one of my boxes of models. From what I can recall, we're both on the same page !

 

My freehand brush-fu is horrid so with this army I plan to improve that. To this end, I'll be free-handing every pauldron. A few thoughts on the Chapter badge:

 

-Five swords interlocking to make a pentagram

-Six swords interlocking to make a unicursal hexagram*

-A scarab

-An Eye of Thoth

 

*I'm pretty partial to this one for reasons. Also, the Eye of Thoth is a close second.

 

As I've said before, I want to portray this Chapter as looking into the metaphysical mysteries of the galaxy to divine key battles, major decisions the Chapter faces, etc. Sort of like the Silver Skulls' use of Prognosticators and the Emperor's Tarot to see when/if they go to battle but this Chapter will use ancient tomes, tablets, keys, and good old brain power to cobble everything together and determine these things.

 

Those grey robes look excellent! Consider that idea stolen and repurposed for the Imperium of Mankind.

 

Thanks to everyone who has helped flesh this idea out into a positive reality. Feeling real great about these guys !

[mithrilforge]

Alright,

is this chest brass ok? and did you want the vents like they are or same as armour?...

 

and this on the right shoulderpad eh?..just the normal D/A pad on the left then?.. or are you going completely away from it?

the 5 swords could be time consuming...the scarab would be easy and cool   maybe make your deathwing in black and call them the Scarabs !!

and the ravenwing could be browns and called The Vultures   

 

Mithril

[Phoebus]

Only think I can think to contribute at the moment is would a successor of a successor chaptmer master be only ranked as a master, or would they also be considered a grand master in the scheme of the inner circle?

 

The Unforgiven certainly makes it seem as if the Chapter Master of a Successor Chapter is the equivalent of a Grand Master of the Inner Circle. Nakir of the Consecrators, for instance, is literally referred to as Grand Master Nakir.

 

Now, that having been said, the same novel shows that, depending on the situation, one Grand Master may very well know more than another.

 

My take is that the levels of knowledge of the highest echelons of the Inner Circle go like this:

 

1. Supreme Grand Master (Chapter Master of the Dark Angels)

2. Grand Master (Dark Angels)

3. Grand Master (Chapter Master of a Successor Chapter)

4. Grand Master (Successor Chapter)

 

Below these individuals, I think knowledge is highly situational and varies from member to member. For instance, one Interrogator-Chaplain might now much more than another. The Grand Master of Librarians of the Consecrators may know more than their Master of Sanctity, or it might be the other way around.

 

It goes without saying that the Watchers in the Dark know more than anyone in the above list.

[Gillyfish]

Personally, I would steer clear of Egyptian style iconography as it veers towards the Thousand sons. I like the idea of the sword pentagram. You could also try diagonally crossed swords in an X shape with a third sword going vertically through them. That should echo the DA but also some of the iconography of the early Greek Orthodox church and Byzantium, which fits in the with Romanesque echoes of the original Legions.

 

It's a thought anyway - feel free to disregard.

[mithrilforge]

Personally, I would steer clear of Egyptian style iconography as it veers towards the Thousand sons. I like the idea of the sword pentagram. You could also try diagonally crossed swords in an X shape with a third sword going vertically through them. That should echo the DA but also some of the iconography of the early Greek Orthodox church and Byzantium, which fits in the with Romanesque echoes of the original Legions.

 

It's a thought anyway - feel free to disregard.

i agree that the symbols lean towards that chapter  

the suggested change is also similar to the Guardians of the Covenant symbol of which this offshoot chapter is sorta similar too as well ?... 

i may paint a pad up for him in this scheme...just for visual confirmation of yay or nay   will get on it tonight.

have a great weekend BnC (its friday night closing time here in Australia)

 

Cheers,Mithril

[Father Mehman]

@Mithril- The way I'm picturing it in my noodle is that the vents would be the same colour as the armour. The bronze would be for the Aquila, the pauldron trim, and any trinkets I can Green Stuff. It's like my ideas are being painted in front of my face !

 

@Gillyfish- Yeah, I thought about the association with the Thousand Sons, gritted my teeth, and said "Who cares?" Now that I'm awake again, I could see how that could get confusing. On further reflection, as much as I love the idea of putting a unicursal hexagram in swords on a pauldron, it could get a bit busy. The pentagram it is! I'll have to think of suitable fluff surrounding it but that shouldn't be too hard a task. As an aside, I had thought about three swords interlinked but I hadn't connected it to Greek Orthodoxy for some reason. Great idea coming up with that and putting it to me, of all people !

 

Alright, we're getting some ground seriously covered. Next up is their name. I think a quick trip to a wiki is in order .

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Pitching my 2 cents in, the Hexagram is pretty awesome (I was actually picturing 6 swords intersecting in a way that it like like the star of david, but that's a regular hexagram not a unicursal one). The regular Hexagram is often used in mysticism and occult practices (such as divination). It's also a heraldic symbol as well. 

 

Over all the concept is pretty cool, I'm looking forward to seeing it Meh.