WellSpokenMan Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Belial is a giant disappointment in this and previous books he is supposed to be a tactician and a skillful warrior who uses Deathwing like a sharp scalpel and yet he comes of as a head strong brute. I don't like the idea of him taking over the legion as he is being written, not enough brain power. If something happens to Azrael the Unforgiven will be in a bit of a crisis. I thought the ending was the worst written part of the book (which I otherwise enjoyed). Way too unclear and way too many plot holes. The scattering is apparently caused by Tuchulcha because Azrael says get "everyone" to safety, so it moves the 40k Dark Angels, the Death Guard and the Fallen and leaves behind the loyalist Legion? I got the impression that he might have been running out of time or pages at the end. Things weren't being explained well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I dont plan on reading the book, but I am very curious what this "wow" ending is. Can anyone spoil it for me, or even send me a PM telling me what it is? I cant find an spoiler for the ending if i google it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 I dont plan on reading the book, but I am very curious what this "wow" ending is. Can anyone spoil it for me, or even send me a PM telling me what it is? I cant find an spoiler for the ending if i google it. Cypher surrenders himself to the Dark Angels. We discover that he has done so several times, and that each time the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels chose to keep his arrival - and subsequent "escape" - a secret. We also discover that Cypher's first such visit led to the creation of the Inner Circle. This time around, Cypher comes to warn the Dark Angels that Astelan (a Fallen Dark Angel) and Typhus (of the Death Guard) have forged an alliance whose schemes could lead to the destruction of all the Unforgiven. Typhus thinks they're going to free a warp entity, but Astelan's secret plan is to open a portal to Caliban right before it was destroyed and rescue the Fallen before they are scattered through time and space. The Dark Angels and other Unforgiven Chapters use another warp entity to stop Astelan - one that has been (unbeknownst to them) kept in the Rock since the Horus Heresy. This entity is able to manipulate both time and space. In saving the Unforgiven from the destructive portal Astelan activated, it twists Azrael's desperate demands and also scatters the Fallen on Caliban throughout time and space. In fewer words, the event that led to the Dark Angels taking up the Hunt for the Fallen in M31 was caused by actions taken by the Dark Angels in M41. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Wow great topic. I really should get around to reading these three books soon. But in truth earlier this year I od'd on old Inquistion books ( Eisenhorn trilogy, The Inquisition War trilogy etc ) to the extent that I needed to 'take a rest' on 40k fiction. But, Emperor's teeth, my appetite has been seriously whetted once again :yes: I'm not sure whether to thank or curse you all ;) Cheers I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I dont plan on reading the book, but I am very curious what this "wow" ending is. Can anyone spoil it for me, or even send me a PM telling me what it is? I cant find an spoiler for the ending if i google it. Cypher surrenders himself to the Dark Angels. We discover that he has done so several times, and that each time the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels chose to keep his arrival - and subsequent "escape" - a secret. We also discover that Cypher's first such visit led to the creation of the Inner Circle. This time around, Cypher comes to warn the Dark Angels that Astelan (a Fallen Dark Angel) and Typhus (of the Death Guard) have forged an alliance whose schemes could lead to the destruction of all the Unforgiven. Typhus thinks they're going to free a warp entity, but Astelan's secret plan is to open a portal to Caliban right before it was destroyed and rescue the Fallen before they are scattered through time and space. The Dark Angels and other Unforgiven Chapters use another warp entity to stop Astelan - one that has been (unbeknownst to them) kept in the Rock since the Horus Heresy. This entity is able to manipulate both time and space. In saving the Unforgiven from the destructive portal Astelan activated, it twists Azrael's desperate demands and also scatters the Fallen on Caliban throughout time and space. Basically, the even that led to the Dark Angels taking up the Hunt for the Fallen ten thousand years in the past was caused by actions taken by the Dark Angels in M40. Oh wow! Thank you for that. That is pretty damn cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I dont plan on reading the book, but I am very curious what this "wow" ending is. Can anyone spoil it for me, or even send me a PM telling me what it is? I cant find an spoiler for the ending if i google it. Cypher surrenders himself to the Dark Angels. We discover that he has done so several times, and that each time the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels chose to keep his arrival - and subsequent "escape" - a secret. We also discover that Cypher's first such visit led to the creation of the Inner Circle. This time around, Cypher comes to warn the Dark Angels that Astelan (a Fallen Dark Angel) and Typhus (of the Death Guard) have forged an alliance whose schemes could lead to the destruction of all the Unforgiven. Typhus thinks they're going to free a warp entity, but Astelan's secret plan is to open a portal to Caliban right before it was destroyed and rescue the Fallen before they are scattered through time and space. The Dark Angels and other Unforgiven Chapters use another warp entity to stop Astelan - one that has been (unbeknownst to them) kept in the Rock since the Horus Heresy. This entity is able to manipulate both time and space. In saving the Unforgiven from the destructive portal Astelan activated, it twists Azrael's desperate demands and also scatters the Fallen on Caliban throughout time and space. Basically, the even that led to the Dark Angels taking up the Hunt for the Fallen ten thousand years in the past was caused by actions taken by the Dark Angels in M40. So Cypher is 40k Red Reddington? And that's kinda like the ending to all similarly themed episodes of the various Star Treks and Stargates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Trevak Dal, That's... actually the best analogy I have ever heard for Cypher. Spot on, I'd say, insofar as his modus operandi and moral compass are concerned. Cypher probably goes to places Reddington would think of as too dark (he dallies with Chaos cults, after all, and has watched entire worlds be burned by his so-called allies), but then everything about Warhammer 40k is more over-the-top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I thought the ending was the worst written part of the book (which I otherwise enjoyed). Way too unclear and way too many plot holes. The scattering is apparently caused by Tuchulcha because Azrael says get "everyone" to safety, so it moves the 40k Dark Angels, the Death Guard and the Fallen and leaves behind the loyalist Legion? From what you say it seems it was meaning those who would be killed. The guys in "space" are safe from harm I am thinking. I haven't read the book, the trilogy actually, but with what you have said it makes sense that the people on Caliban were the only ones needing saved. I really need to read this trilogy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Did Cypher go into the past? And if so why? What is he trying to do? Is he doing laps 10,000 years at a time? Who did he kill if not Astelan? What happened to Astelan? A major player in the last books and I don't think he was even seen in this book. Same with the rest of the villains. I enjoyed the book mostly, especially the Watchers. I think that when Asmodai touched the sword it may have changed him, he seemed a lot more reasonable after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I think that is because Asmodai may have an inkling of what sword it actually is (it isn't the rumored Lion Sword), that Cypher tells him he swore to never use it and is known to never use it (he's really the guardian of the sword), says something to Asmodai about Cypher. Asmodai finally may have come to the realization that he, even as a member of the uppermost echelon of the Inner Circle, doesn't know the whole truth of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 I don't know if that requires the rumored Lion Sword to be something else, though. After all, Azrael's revelations re: Cypher alone would be enough to prove to Asmodai that he doesn't know everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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