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Slow & Purposeful: Cataphractii Equipped HQs


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#1
Slips

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So, For a while now, I've always thought that Slow and Purposeful is not conferred to a unit by a singular model with the rule but, recently, watching a Frontline Gaming stream (they are Tournament TOs of the BAO and LVO), it the question came up and they said that the rule was conferred. I'm wondering if this is ITC ruling or in the actual BRB (I would check but no access to books as of writing this)?

That said, if this is the case that S&P is conferred, does that make Cataphractii Equipped Siege Breakers (or other Cataphractii equipped HQ) slapped onto a Heavy Support Squad a more appealing choice? Youd have the SB in the front around to Tank Shots and give the Squad Tank Hunter and you'd be able to move & shoot with the squad due to S&P being conferred.

Depending on the Army (like Covenanr of Fire Salamanders who gaint MtC), this might actually be a good alternative especially if you're going for a footslogging army with minimal Armored Support.

First thing that comes to mind is Lascannons, Missile Launchers and Volkite Culverins gaining another 6" of threat range over their 40+ inches they already have and being able to move without any real penalty thus being able to reposition for better LoS.
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#2
Jolemai

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It's a BRB thing. Ork Warbosses have been doing it for years whereby they reserve a unit of Lootas and bring it on with the Warboss for full firing effect.


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#3
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It's a BRB thing. Ork Warbosses have been doing it for years whereby they reserve a unit of Lootas and bring it on with the Warboss for full firing effect.


Then, I have no real idea why I always Thought to the Contrary....

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#4
Jolemai

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Probably because Relentless isn't and SnP Marines are rare :)
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#5
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This suddenly makes HSS with an attached Cataphractii Character that much more compelling, especially for a ZM or City Fight game!

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#6
Hesh Kadesh

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I'm AFB until later, but is it the whole SNP rule applied to the unit?

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#7
Caillum

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Page 171 of BRB - "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule..." So yes, it confers to the whole unit unfortunately.

Edited by Caillum, 23 July 2015 - 12:12 PM.

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#8
Hesh Kadesh

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I thought it went on to say 'additonally, models with this rule' or something along those lines?

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#9
v6v77

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Doesnt the entry for cataphracii armour say it doesnt confer S&P to attached units or does it just mention the movement penalty.

#10
Jolemai

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According to HH: LACAL you follow the rules for Terminator Armour (Great Crusade era), but swap out the word "Relentless" for "Slow and Purposeful" (and increase their save to 4++).


Page 91.


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#11
v6v77

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According to HH: LACAL you follow the rules for Terminator Armour (Great Crusade era), but swap out the word "Relentless" for "Slow and Purposeful" (and increase their save to 4++).

Page 91.

Hmmm interesting. So much abuse here.

EDIT: Having checked the rules it does specifically mention its doesnt transfer.

Edited by v6v77, 23 July 2015 - 02:29 PM.


#12
LetsYouDown

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There's an old errata/faq for HH1 that says Cataphractii don't confer S&P, but then LACAL doesn't include the fix (and technically LACAL takes precedence I guess?). Personally I'm pretty sure they meant for the HH1 errata to apply to everything and carelessly C&P'd a bunch of stuff from the first three books to make LACAL. It's up to your groups which to go with.

 

link to said FAQ


Edited by LetsYouDown, 23 July 2015 - 06:36 PM.

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#13
Charlo

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Really tempted to do some Death Guard Heavy support squads with Attached apothecaries with cataprachi now... Assuming you can. Superior moving firepower that moves through cover.
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#14
PastelAvenger

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I still would have thought the FAQ still stood and Cataphractii does not confer SnP contrary to the BRB. I do realise that this is different to the usual way we treat FAQs however in 30k there isn't a new release of the rule book just a continuation of the rules and new units so I would have thought we still need to use this in conjunction with future releases.

#15
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IMO whatever is printed latest goes forward. The Legion list, if released later, errors or no should be the thing used?



#16
SkimaskMohawk

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I think the question to ask is whether the FAQ is still valid or not. On one hand LA:CAL is the most recent version that has many of the errata'd features, but on the other there's some FAQs that explicitly set out a rule that are never explained again (what can go in a Legion Drop Pod and Assault Ram).



#17
Ishagu

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Although the normal slow and purposeful rule confers, in the specific rules for Cataphractii armour I'm pretty sure it says it doesn't. I think it's an intentional ruling to stop a Cataphractii Centurions giving a heavy weapon squad SnP for example.

Edited by Ishagu, 21 August 2015 - 06:36 AM.

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#18
redmapa

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http://www.forgeworl...Q_Errata_V2.pdf

 

Cataphracti armor doesnt confer S&P to the unit, only to the wearer.


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#19
Jolemai

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Sadly that is out of date as LACAL superceedes Betrayal.

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#20
redmapa

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Sadly that is out of date as LACAL superceedes Betrayal.

 

Oh crud, you're right, should've checked the date. Well that changes everything, imagine a Heavy weapons squad with MultiMeltas on a pod and a Siege Breaker centurion! Drop in and boom, dead tanks everywhere!.


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#21
Jolemai

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To be honest, I think it would be best for someone to send FW an email if it hasn't already been done.

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#22
Fangbanger

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The only rule is that "if one model has this rule..." So, as written it's fine. Nothing I can se in consequent books or FAQ contradicts this
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#23
Flint13

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This is another of "what did they really intend" issues that crops up in the Heresy rule books from time to time, similar to the "Do World Eaters get free chainaxes?" bit. You're going to get different answers based on who you're asking, and each is probably going to be pretty positive their interpretation is correct. "The rules state exactly..." and "they really meant..." and the like are phrases you'll see pop up a lot.

Deductive reasoning would seem to indicate that it was an unintentional exploit just missed in a copy/paste job, but I'm not one to try and extrapolate.

Long story (and thread) short, FW has devolved into boilerplate email response mode when asked about rules, so it's a conversation you'll have to have with your opponent before hand.
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#24
Brother Heinrich

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Bah I say freaking run it. It never made sense to me why someone in servo-assisted power armor can't run and gun with weapons like lascannons, volkites, Plasma Cannons and multi-meltas (which honestly wouldn't have recoil anyways since they just emit variations of heat and light). There's a reason Space Marines run around using crew-served weapons as individual squad support weapons, they have the armor and strength to do it. Plus with S&P they get the balancing factor of not being able to run or fire overwatch, makes sense to me.


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#25
WolfOfHorus

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Hmmmm, let's ignore the FAQ, because why not? By that reasoning, since I play SoH, I can ignore the ruling on Unwieldy weapons for Merciless Fighters.

Edited by WolfOfHorus, 23 September 2015 - 10:01 AM.

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