Tauroxes are they any good?

[Emprah2508]

I was thinking about getting a taurox for the force I shall be starting soon and was wandering if they are any good. The twin linked atoucannon looks appealing and unlike most people I really like the look of the miniature. Sorry if this has been posted before but I searched the site and couldn't find anything on it.

[march10k]

The only good taurox is a dead taurox. Makes great LOS-breaking cover for a small squad.

[WarriorFish]

The main issue is that they're made of paper, but if you're ok with that then they can be ok I think. The Prime is much better, but only for Scions are too expensive for what you get. I'm of the opinion that if you want to go Taurox than if you're not just taking one or something then you need to go all in. Fully mech up, get plenty on the table and zoom around placing fire power where your opponent wants it least.

 

The model has grown on me especially with some of the paint jobs and conversions I've seen but like most Guard players I have plenty of Chimera tanks to ferry my troops around and provide fire support. The Taurox just isn't good enough to motivate us to bother. Perhaps GW will see the error of their ways (not doubt from the number of units shipped) and throw it a bone next update?

[Carraigf]

Hey Emprah, I'm also love the taurox and have 2 in my 500 point list, even considering swapping out my CCS Chimera.

 

Theres not much out there on taurox tactics, and I'm fairly new in returning to 40k still playing low point games but can share what I've seen so far.

 

For me the key differences, not counting the points difference, are in survivability, manoeuvrability and ability to issue orders.

 

Survuvability:

 

With armour 11 up front you can't run them as if they were a tank, really important, those the Hull points will fly off very QuickTime if they meet anything geared up for anti armour.

 

A friend of mine runs two filled with melta and plasma vets and gets a lot of use from them. His advice when I asked about them was keep them moving or in cover, preferably both, and remember they only cost 50 points so don't get to upset if one pops.

 

I've found that to be good advice, the small size does help you keep them hidden and I'm thinking of adding camo netting to mine to buff the cover save.

 

Manouvreability:

 

The gravitic motor let's you re roll on dangerous terrain so you've a lot more freedom to move around than most transports. I try and make use of terrain as much as possible, especially when the are enemy to the rear. Zipping through the rough ground gives you an edge and keeps you out of range of any infantry trying to get behind for an easy rear shot or mob you with krak.

 

Also when using it to get a squad into position you can exit using both side doors so you get an extra 3 or 4 inches when you de-bus as you don't have to run round from the back hatch of the chimera.

 

This makes a big difference when you want to get into melta or rapid fire range or in bailing out when it does go pop.

 

Orders:

 

Last one that's a bit of a kicker is the lack of command vehicle rule, this means you can't issue orders while embarked, and is the main reason for me sticking with chimera for the CCS. Orders are one of the coolest parts of playing AM so this can sting a bit but only if you were planning on having your CCS mounted up during play so may not affect you.

 

So that's my tuppence worth, as i said I've only played a handful of games all at low points, sure the other guys here can chip in.

 

I'll be fielding my force fully painted for the first time this week against marines and will be doing a battle report so I'll let you know how they get on.

[Jolemai]

The main issue is that they're made of paper, but if you're ok with that then they can be ok I think. The Prime is much better, but only for Scions are too expensive for what you get. I'm of the opinion that if you want to go Taurox than if you're not just taking one or something then you need to go all in. Fully mech up, get plenty on the table and zoom around placing fire power where your opponent wants it least.

 

 

 

Play it like you would razorspam?

[Kabbala]

There's already a couple of good responses above, so I won't reiterate what was said. I would just say that if you like the model and its use has some appeal, than why are you not using it? You can even proxy for them in a few games to get a feel for them.

[WarriorFish]

The main issue is that they're made of paper, but if you're ok with that then they can be ok I think. The Prime is much better, but only for Scions are too expensive for what you get. I'm of the opinion that if you want to go Taurox than if you're not just taking one or something then you need to go all in. Fully mech up, get plenty on the table and zoom around placing fire power where your opponent wants it least.

Play it like you would razorspam?

Pretty much! Stay mobile, stay shooty and survive through hiding/numbers

The lack of the command vehicle rule is one of the reasons the Taurox was dead on arrival for me... It has potential, but the blessed Chimera has served us well for years so GW need to try a lot harder to entice us away.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The Taurox prime is pretty good, but it can only be taken by scions. The regular Taurox is a decently armed transport for a mech platoon, though both tauroxes are a tad overpriced if you ask me. The chimera is only 15 points more than a base Taurox, can carry 2 extra guys, and extra point of armor on the front, and has the command vehicle special rule.

 

Now the prime is a different beast, It's a fast vehicle, is heavily armed, and that makes it more dangerous. It can move 12 inches and still fire 2 of it's weapons at full BS, or move a total of 24 inches a turn if you flat out. This means it can get anywhere it needs to go, and take it's troops to any part of the field. 

 

Both Tauroxes ave the all terrain APC rule, which is like a built in dozer blade, it can re-roll dangerous terrain.

 

Like many have said above (I started my reply before they ha posted), it's a niche thing. 

 

The Way I'd use the regular taurox, is as a taxi to get my Infantry squads up the table. Put my PCS in a Chimera, and my ML Infantry squads in Tauroxes and convoy them up the table, the PCS can still issue orders, while the infantry squads get cheaper transport. Park the whole mess in some ruins, give the tauroxes Camo netting, and you have a squad that can put out a healthy amount of quality dakka. 

[Emprah2508]

Thanks for the advice but I have two questions, could I use it for backfield support or midfield in ruins and who changed the title of the thread ? I've changed it back now

[captain sox]

Did someone ask if Taurox are any good??

First 5 Taurox, and Squad #8 in progress.

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a496/Odogg242/IMG_20150726_130924_zpszdngn73x.jpg

Apparently I really dig them. So much so, I have sold off / traded all of my Chimera chassis models. I am running 85% Tempestus Scions (built using their Codex) and the rest of my army will be filled in with allied Knights, or various Astra Militarum units (like Sentinels and Bullgryns) Debating reviving my veterans to ride in more Taurox models.

The good: Taurox Prime (since this is what the bulk of my models will be): Fast vehicles that can zip around. Take the Augur Array if you can omn at least one of them if you can find the points. Will help your deep striking units. Versatile vehicle as well. Missile Launcher and Autocannon work well together for tougher creatures and light armour, from the "back field", and can support the Gatling Cannon variants to thin hordes with the small blast. The Battle Cannon variant is great for this too and a few will be added to my collection soon. Remember they can move and shoot... so the range is pretty decent. KEEP THEM MOVING. The Gatling Cannon with Volley is an infantry / horde killer. Side Doors are often overlooked and can really make a few inches difference when disembarking. 2 Fire points per side, which is a bonus too, for some nice drive by action. I think they look awesome as they are.... but that's just me.

The Bad: The points cost is pretty high, considering. If you want your forward Taurox kitted with a Gatling cannon and Augur, its about 115. Not very durable at all. Need to hide them behind some cover / terrain. They will get blowed up often and early. Lack of Command Vehicle. This one hurts, because using the MT codex, and the formations, I have to take my Command Squad in one, which blows (blows even more that I have to take a Commissar???) because since some of the orders we have are the bomb, the squad has to get out, and be blown to bits before it can make any orders.

I'm not the most experienced general out there, but in the few games that I have used them, they have been surprising. But since I field quite a few of them, it's probably why I'm getting the results. The Gatling Cannon variant really shines.

My 2c.

oh, and has the mail arrived?

[Emprah2508]

I don't know I'm on holiday I'm about to phone my parents though I'll ask them

[Emprah2508]

Just checked and the post has arrived

thanks captain sox

[march10k]

I think part of my dislike stems from having nine chimeras, hard to imagine fielding more transports than that, so maybe it's more a lack of interest than actual dislike?

 

Actually, it is more, though.  It doesn't do what I need it to.  My doctrine for the use of a chimera doesn't work with AV11.  I need it to either sit still with its best armor pointed at the enemy while laying down fire, or move 18", on any given turn.  The taurox does that second task at least as well as a chimera, but it's pretty poor at the first task.  AV11 is just paper thin, compared to AV12.

[Jolemai]

Have to say, I'm really enjoying the perspective on AV 11 :)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The AV11 front is definitely its biggest drawback. So much so that it's almost a mandatory 15 point hike for camo netting, which makes it as much as a chimera, and with the chimera you can get away with not taking camo netting because of the front AV12. 

 

The Prime is a better take for scions even without camo netting because it can get to the party very fast. Chimeras for Command squads all day, because of the command vehicle rule.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I'm the same as many here, the Chimera is just so good for what it brings, I love it. That said, as I understand the Taurox' statement of, "it has two Fire Points on either side of the hull," does that add up to 4 Fire Points? That's a whole lot of dakka if you get into the right position. In CC it's as vulnerable as a Chimera, but it can outmanoeuvre those threats better.

 

I think it's that Front AV11 that kills it for me, though. Just paper, worse than a Rhino due to the Side AV of 10.With it's APC rule it's great for cover-hugging, but any light, high RoF Ignores Cover fire will annihilate it. It could work for spamming Veterans at an even cheaper rate, though. The difference in cost would pay for Carapace Armour to keep the Vets safe. :P

[CommissarHughes]

Well, here are the Taurox drawbacks as I see them compared to your other transport, the workhorse of the guard, the Chimera APC

 

First off, I play guard for the tanks, and have over time learned to love the infantry, so I want to see tanks on the board. The Chimera is a good little light tank to the Hellhound's medium and Leman Russ's heavy, and the Taurox will just never be a tank despite the fact that I actually do like the model. 

 

Secondly, the frontal armor is much more vulnerable. Tau small arms can and will punch through the front armor and glance several to death before their heavier weapons open up, where as the Chimera will ignore the same guns.

 

Third, while I do love the auto-cannon, the Taurox just does not have the volume of dice to seriously cut through a squad. While it does have the flexibility to damage armor more reliably, the auto-cannon can kill 2 infantry models at best in a single turn where a stationary Chimera will throw 6 dice at a squad and the multi las is actually pretty good against anything av12 or less.

 

Fourth, all the little bits that start to add up. While a Taurox has a built in dozer blade and twin linked autto-cannon, a Chimera has the multi las, a heavy bolter/flamer, smoke launchers, weapons racks for derping, and the comm vehicle special rule. It's also amphibious, but I've never been in a situation where I used it.

 

Fifth, and this is the big one in my opinion why very few people haven't taken up Tauroxes, the physical model cost vs the Chimera. On the site at this moment, the Chimera is $37.33 to the Taurox's $48. The Chimera was priced for a hoard army's transport, where the Taurox was priced for the Taurox prime's more elite army focus. that extra $10 adds up when you need 7-8 in a 1500 point list for full mechanization. I don't have a problem with paying about the same amount I do for a Leman Russ or Hellhound as I do for the Prime, but tournaments don't like proxies and I'd rather avoid them if at all possible. And after the 4 I have for the scion formation, I don't need any more primes.

 

So basically, Tauroxes got screwed by GW prices. Otherwise, they might be just as common as Chimeras at this point.

[WarriorFish]

Excellent posts in here, there is much to ruminate on! I think costs - points and pounds - can easily be argued to be the main reason the Taurox isn't too popular.

[Truesight]

One important thing that hasn't been noted yet is that Taurox's don't have the 'tank' unit type, meaning they cannot tank shock, unlike Chimeras.  This may not seem like much, but I have seen a game lost because of it.  A player null deployed to avoid a drop pod alpha strike, and the opponent covered his deployment with troops.  The guard commander tried to tank shock the troops away so there was room to deploy his own, but found out his taurox's actually couldn't, thus lost all the troops coming out of reserve because of not being able to place them.  Chimeras would have saved the day.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

One more plus on the prime vs the regular taurox; The prime is BS4, while the base Taurox is BS3 like most of the guard. 

 

 

One important thing that hasn't been noted yet is that Taurox's don't have the 'tank' unit type, meaning they cannot tank shock, unlike Chimeras.  This may not seem like much, but I have seen a game lost because of it.  A player null deployed to avoid a drop pod alpha strike, and the opponent covered his deployment with troops.  The guard commander tried to tank shock the troops away so there was room to deploy his own, but found out his taurox's actually couldn't, thus lost all the troops coming out of reserve because of not being able to place them.  Chimeras would have saved the day.

 

I'm a bit confused, if you null deploy, without the ability to bring on forces first turn (Elysian Combat Drop, Drop pod assault and the like) how do you even make it past the first turn? If at the end of the Game turn, you have no models on the board, you lose. Seems to me that they lost at deployment.

[WarriorFish]

As long as you can bring units on before the end of the first game turn you're ok, so presumably he had a way to bring units on from turn 1, or perhaps lost his deployed units?

[Truesight]

I'm a bit confused, if you null deploy, without the ability to bring on forces first turn (Elysian Combat Drop, Drop pod assault and the like) how do you even make it past the first turn? If at the end of the Game turn, you have no models on the board, you lose. Seems to me that they lost at deployment.

 

That is indeed what he had, space marine allies including a drop pod.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Ok, without context it's kind of hard to see the interaction on the tabletop. I didn't mean to sound like a jerk, if that's the way it sounded.

[captain sox]

Ok, without context it's kind of hard to see the interaction on the tabletop. I didn't mean to sound like a jerk, if that's the way it sounded.

It also depends on how many Taurox he had, the points level, etc etc. What we have to think about with the Taurox is that it's not a Chimera. Think of it not as a troop carrier (as the Scions can deep strike) but more of a FAST light vehicle with some good shooting potential. I know the Chimera is tried and true, and it's a great tank. But the Taurox isn't that horrible (in my mind anyway). Its like spoon vs fork. Each has their purpose for certain things. You'll need a few of them as well to really make things count, but I'm no guard player ever just plays with 1 or 2 Chimera.

hopefully this makes some semblance of sense

PS - ever tried eating steak with a spoon or soup with a fork?

[CommissarHughes]

Ok, without context it's kind of hard to see the interaction on the tabletop. I didn't mean to sound like a jerk, if that's the way it sounded.

It also depends on how many Taurox he had, the points level, etc etc. What we have to think about with the Taurox is that it's not a Chimera. Think of it not as a troop carrier (as the Scions can deep strike) but more of a FAST light vehicle with some good shooting potential. I know the Chimera is tried and true, and it's a great tank. But the Taurox isn't that horrible (in my mind anyway). Its like spoon vs fork. Each has their purpose for certain things. You'll need a few of them as well to really make things count, but I'm no guard player ever just plays with 1 or 2 Chimera.

hopefully this makes some semblance of sense

PS - ever tried eating steak with a spoon or soup with a fork?

Well, you seem to be referring to the Taurox Prime, where I'm talking about the vanilla Taurox. No one doubts the effectiveness of the Prime, since it's both fast and has some very nice weaponry in addition to being the scion transport. Vanilla, it's not fast and only has one weapon, a good weapon mind you, but you're only throwing 2 dice at a target max.