Effective use of breachers

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I'm in the process of building a breacher squad for my heresy era space wolves and I was debating weapons and tactics for their use.

 

Quite frankly I'm drawn to them because the imagery is just so damn cool. On careful reading they are quite expensive points wise so I want to be sure I'm getting value out of them.

 

I'm sure they will get wolf specific rules in time so I don't need recommendations of stuff like "use iron hands rules" they are space wolves or just plain! ;-)

 

So they are void hardened and have breaching shields for a 6++ save outside of combat and 5++ in combat. Plus 1 in 5 can have a special weapon.

 

Initially I'm planning 10 with 2 special weapons. I want to say Graviton guns as I like the idea of them but I think I'm right in saying they are heavy weapons?

Plasma might also be good especially when combined with void hardened? Melta don't seem to mesh well but flamers would help them receive a charge (which is one of the iconic things you think about breachers!)

Lascutter I don't see the point of to be honest...

 

How would you consider arming the Sargeant? Fist? Lightning claw? Combiweapon?

 

 

So on to tactics;

I kinda see two obvious uses 'objective grabbers' and 'unit shield'

 

Objective grabbers

These are simple in their use. Get to an objective and sit on it for as long as possible. Prime candidates for Graviton guns as they wont move much once they get to there destination and the Graviton effects would help slow down units that might be able to chop hard enough to push them off their objective. The Sargeant would be best off adding his gun to the hail of fire so possibly give a combi flamer that he can use if charged?

 

Unit shield

I don't know how effective this would actually be but in my head at least it's the cinematic use. Tactical squads advance with these guys in their midst then after a Fury of the Legion attack the breachers run forward to form a defensive line to prevent countercharges while the tactical squads reload.

My guess would be flamers or plasma with a Sargent equipped to challenge as it is likely they will see combat with this use.

 

This is mostly theoretical as the ultramarines would say what are the opinions of those who use breachers regularly?

[WolfOfHorus]

Step 1: Play Imperial Fists

Step 2: Take Imperial Fist Rite of War

Step 3: Profit

 

In all honesty, I despise breachers, they don't really fill any niche outside of Zone Mortalis games, they are slower and a 6+ invul don't mean jack most of the time.  For the same price of 10 Breachers, you can have a Tactical Squad with an addition 7 marines and have access to FotL. Critisisms aside, the only saving grace is that it can reroll saves against Blasts, which is great if your meta has Quad Mortars, but if it doesn't, why are you buying Breachers?

 

A 10 man will not give you very much for the points, with your loadout its coming close to around 300 points, thats nearly the cost of 10 Terminators, or 10 really decked out Veterans. It feels like you have to take 20 man squads just to get some value out of em.

[norngahl]

I think they get much better in Zone Mortalis games (which they are meant for), as you won't face that many ap3+ plates.. and because of some of the best units can't be fielded (actually just MEQ, TEQ, Dreads and Rapierd), they become more attractive due to missing alternatives.

 

I mean a Deredeo in their back with generator buffs them to 5++/4++, add an apothecary into a 20 men blob, 4 special weapons and you have a pretty hard to shift unit as your compulsory troops.

[WolfOfHorus]

I think they get much better in Zone Mortalis games (which they are meant for), as you won't face that many ap3+ plates.. and because of some of the best units can't be fielded (actually just MEQ, TEQ, Dreads and Rapierd), they become more attractive due to missing alternatives.

 

I mean a Deredeo in their back with generator buffs them to 5++/4++, add an apothecary into a 20 men blob, 4 special weapons and you have a pretty hard to shift unit as your compulsory troops.

That's 700 or so point. Alot of things are useful when you invest that many points into them.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Well I have an old school deredeo dread with the rockets, is this shield generator something that's compatible or is it one or the other? 5++/ 4++ isn't too shabby

[m_r_parker]

I love the imagery of breachers too - there's nothing quite like a towering trans-human in ceramite plate saying "Hey, this looks a bit dodgy, get me my massive shield!". It's a shame the rules are off in terms of what I would expect. Would it really be that difficult to change it so that you've got a decent cover save instead of a weak invulnerable? Maybe a 4+, with the explicit statement that it can only be increased to a maximum of 3+?

 

It's been sad already, they're best deployed as either a Imperial Fist Legion force, or in a Zone Mortalis game (or both). For the price if the initial 10 marines you can potentially get some other squads with "better points efficiency". 

 

As for my setup, plasma guns with my sergeant wielding a Thunder Hammer.

[Dantay VI]

Yay more Space Wolves breachers :)

 

 

Glad you asked because I was also wondering what the best use would be... I mainly just love the look of them + Shield Wall!! I plan to trade my lascutter for plasma though..

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I double checked after I posted and it appears that unless it's been FAQed then plasma is off the menu. Volkites are an option instead however

[Reyner]

The only Breacher-esque guys who can take Plasma guns are the Phalanx Warders so people might be confusing the two :( And UM Suzerain can take plasma pistols.

[Lysere]

I've run them quite a bit under Imperial fist rules, and to be honest without their rite of war I probably wouldn't have used them. The invuln is only really any good in combat, and without an apothecary they aren't really much better than tacticals in terms of durability. The T5 from the Imperial Fist RoW is what makes them hilariously tough.

 

If you really want a squad anyway then either use them to hold a spot with a pair of graviton guns or melta guns or get a breaching charge on the sergeant and use them to push into the enemy where their invuln is more useful. Volkite is always good as well. Yes they cost more than tacticals but unlike tacticals they can take special weapons which is a huge bonus.

 

Also yeah, no plasma on normal breachers.

[m_r_parker]

Well, looks like I'm off to find some additional Breacher arms to replace the Sons of Horus breachers that I made with Plasma guns. I could have sworn that that was a valid option, but obviously not. I might swap out for flamers, but I really like the idea of something plasma gun bringing some rapid fire AP2 to the squad, cutting through armour and even having the opportunity to take out light transports with a bit of range to them. 

[Dantay VI]

You could always magntise so you an swap weapons about?

I like the idea of toasting some orks or eldar as you get into charge range then pummeling them when the charge hits home.

I have never used volkite

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Dental- really like your wolves man, that the sort of look I was going for!

After researching the volkites chargers last night I was astounded to realise they are only 15" range. Yes the additional wounds are tasty but they don't breach regular power armour.

 

It seems to me the only sensible choices are: Graviton to cause difficult/dangerous terrain effects or flamers for wall of death when being charged.

 

What's people's opinion on load outs for the Sargeant? Given the shield denies him 2cc weapons I'm inclined to give him a combiweapon (plasma if Graviton used, flamer if flamers used) and a powerweapon.

 

Would breaching charges help as an additional shooting attack?

 

Also food for thought this thread from the rules section. I'm falling in the counts as having blind grenades camp after reading the arguments for and against. The unit is pricey enough without the thrown grenade option that it could cope with having a slight boost!

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301474-boarding-shields-defensive-grenades/page-3?do=findComment&comment=3925933

[Lysere]

Dental- really like your wolves man, that the sort of look I was going for!

After researching the volkites chargers last night I was astounded to realise they are only 15" range. Yes the additional wounds are tasty but they don't breach regular power armour.

 

It seems to me the only sensible choices are: Graviton to cause difficult/dangerous terrain effects or flamers for wall of death when being charged.

 

What's people's opinion on load outs for the Sargeant? Given the shield denies him 2cc weapons I'm inclined to give him a combiweapon (plasma if Graviton used, flamer if flamers used) and a powerweapon.

 

Would breaching charges help as an additional shooting attack?

 

Also food for thought this thread from the rules section. I'm falling in the counts as having blind grenades camp after reading the arguments for and against. The unit is pricey enough without the thrown grenade option that it could cope with having a slight boost!

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301474-boarding-shields-defensive-grenades/page-3?do=findComment&comment=3925933

 

Breaching charges are a melee weapon, not a ranged. Quite fun but not the safest weapon you can use.

[Theredknight]

 

Yay more Space Wolves breachers :)

 

 

 

 

 

Glad you asked because I was also wondering what the best use would be... I mainly just love the look of them + Shield Wall!! I plan to trade my lascutter for plasma though..

For the penny queen!

[Dantay VI]

In tor a penny, in for a pound as they say!! :D

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I was using 5p as templates for my shields. But perhaps your way will incur good dice karma?!?

 

I can't believe nobody has any experience of using Breachers to share. I have decided as a temporary measure to test the flamer option in a big game (vs 40k chaos) on the 29th of August.

 

I am also considering joining a Forge Lord to the unit as his rad grenades would help tip the scales towards the breachers.

 

An apocathery would also not go amiss but that will depend on points!

[Hesh Kadesh]

Put a Vigilator i in the Squad (in regular armour) amd let them Scout with Graviton, allows first turn knock out of most Land Raiders or weaker.

[Gorgoff]

I was using 5p as templates for my shields. But perhaps your way will incur good dice karma?!?

I can't believe nobody has any experience of using Breachers to share. I have decided as a temporary measure to test the flamer option in a big game (vs 40k chaos) on the 29th of August.

I am also considering joining a Forge Lord to the unit as his rad grenades would help tip the scales towards the breachers.

An apocathery would also not go amiss but that will depend on points!

Oh I used them and can tell you that they're heavily overpriced in normal games.

But in Zone Mortalis they are a complete different unit especially of you use the Hard Void rule. And way wouldn't you? It makes so much fun. So, when you do that they are great.

We tried it two weeks ago and my Breachers (12 guys with Melter, Flamer, Fist, one Melterbomb and pretty trousers on the sarge) destroyed to objectives (Sabotage mission) and hold of and finally defeated five Ghal Vorbak in CC!

First they killed two in Overwatch thanks to Rending.

Than they have a nice 5++ in CC, plus 3+ anyway, plus 5+ FnP thanks to the Apothecary.

And rending fists of Doom and Destruction in CC as well. :)

Even ten additional dudes coming into that combat couldn't break them.

I play Iron Warriors by the way.

The narrow passanges, short fire distances in ZM are great for Breachers.

[Dantay VI]

I was using 5p as templates for my shields. But perhaps your way will incur good dice karma?!?

 

I can't believe nobody has any experience of using Breachers to share. I have decided as a temporary measure to test the flamer option in a big game (vs 40k chaos) on the 29th of August.

 

I am also considering joining a Forge Lord to the unit as his rad grenades would help tip the scales towards the breachers.

 

An apocathery would also not go amiss but that will depend on points!

 

Ach, I'll probably never own a zone mortalis board, but I just like them thematically... I tried the 5p, but found it too small when models are on 32mm bases. 10p is slightly bigger, but I think too bi and 2p is way too big

 

 

You could use it on breachers, but they would need to hold it way off centre... I also use the 1p's on my terminators.

 

Back on topic I still reckon they make good objective holders, 3+, you can increase survivability with terrain to say 4+ with your 5+ as backup. If a unit assaults you overwatch them on the way in and you get your invul save in combat to keep you in the fight... I reckon they'd be a tough unit to shift

[Gorgoff]

They're as tough as normal Marines when they take Bolterfire.

Three wounds kill one Breacher.

Three wounds kill one Marine.

It's simple as that.

They look awesome, they have style but don't use them in regular games.

They meant to shine in Zone Mortalis games and hell yeah they'll do, but don't waste them in open space. ;)

 

Oh and by the way. We don't have a Zone Mortalis board either. Instead we used lots and lots of hills.

Like a big puzzle it made a good board to play on.

[Slips]

If you have a Space Hulk Set, they make for GREAT ZM Boards.

[Lysere]

 

 

I was using 5p as templates for my shields. But perhaps your way will incur good dice karma?!?

 

I can't believe nobody has any experience of using Breachers to share. I have decided as a temporary measure to test the flamer option in a big game (vs 40k chaos) on the 29th of August.

 

I am also considering joining a Forge Lord to the unit as his rad grenades would help tip the scales towards the breachers.

 

An apocathery would also not go amiss but that will depend on points!

Ach, I'll probably never own a zone mortalis board, but I just like them thematically... I tried the 5p, but found it too small when models are on 32mm bases. 10p is slightly bigger, but I think too bi and 2p is way too big

 

 

 

You could use it on breachers, but they would need to hold it way off centre... I also use the 1p's on my terminators.

 

Back on topic I still reckon they make good objective holders, 3+, you can increase survivability with terrain to say 4+ with your 5+ as backup. If a unit assaults you overwatch them on the way in and you get your invul save in combat to keep you in the fight... I reckon they'd be a tough unit to shift

The invuln is not 5+, its 6+ unless in close combat.

[Phalanx Warder]

I have used Breachers in every game that I have played since I had my first 10 assembled and painted. I can tell you that they are a double edged sword having performed on both edges of the spectrum (in no small amount due to my ability to roll 1's and 2's).

 

Outside of Zone Mortalis and LA:IF I would not recommend taking them as they are too expensive and for the points you sink in 20 of these guys with special weapons you could get 20 tac marines and a Tactical Support Squad (5 guys) with plasma and it would not be too far off points wise, I think.

 

Now using Legion Astartes: Imperial Fists they become a more attractive due to +1BS, +1T but they are never going to be the main stay of any Competition/power gamers list just due to the points sink and lets not forget the relative short range of the special weapons you can give them. 

 

They get the option to take special weapons, I take the Grav gun every time and enjoy watching them strip hull points off of stuff, though it has usually delivered its deadly payload. If you are aggressive you could throw las cutters on them and watch them turn Spartans into Slag deposits.

 

*******IMPORTANT NOTICE---- DO NOT, NOT TAKE BREACHER CHARGES AS THEY TEND TO KILL YOUR OWN GUYS this i know from painful memory********

 

Where Breachers really shine is Zone Mortalis, here they live up to the fluff we can all picture, they are a hard prospect to consider, 15 breachers will pull 5 terminators into the grave (with themselves most likely).

 

using LA: IF this is what 1000pts of pain looks like and its a nasty list to go against:

Delegatus (The Stone Gauntlet)
Breacher squad x 10 AA
Breacher squad x 10, AA
Phalanx Warders x 15 (x3 plasma guns, x2 power Axes, AA) 

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Well my apologies for being unable to update on how my breachers did in our apocalypse game.

 

My opponent chose to bring all superheavies (5 knights, lord of skulls, 2 fellblades, 3 hell turkeys, 2 bloodthirsters and belakor) after spending all week telling us he was bringing Khorne Daemon Kin. I didnt even bother taking them out of the box.

 

Was a very disappointing game. Hopefully I can resurrect the topic a bit later once ive gathered more useful data :-(