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Brotherhood of the Lost - The Scions Hospitalier

Brotherhood of the Lost IdeaVomit Tags for the Tag God I REALLY like apothecaries And Turtles IInd Legion? XIth maybe?

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#1
Slips

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In conjunction with the Brotherhood of the Lost Project, I've decided to finally put these ideas to written form.

Good thing I was in the process of writing this before it all got moved to the special Projects section!


 

The Scions Hospitalier

+

"None Shall Impede The Emperors Vision For A Perfect Humanity!"

L7eatHt.jpg

6DL2HgT.jpg


Fluff:

Hidden Content

+++

Rules and Characters:
Legiones Astartes: Scions Hospitalier
-Legiones Astartes:

Units and Models with the LA(SH) special rule may always attempt to regroup at normal leadership regardless of casualties sustained.

-The Scions Hospitalier:


All Models with the LA(SH) special rule gain the Feel No Pain (6+) and Move Through Cover Special Rules.

-Magna-Apothecarium:


Models Equipped with a Narthecium or an Iona-Pattern Narthecium possessing the LA(SH) special rule permit them and the squads they've joined to re-roll a single failed Feel No Pain roll once per phase. The Primarch Pionus Santor and Inna Santor can never benefit from this effect.

-No Man Left Behind:


Units with the LA:SH special rule suffer a -1 modifier to Sweeping Advance and Fall Back rolls. This modifier increases to -2 once the unit has suffered 25% casualties. Additionally If the unit contains a model with a Narthecium, Iona-Pattern Narthecium, The Saviour or Ultima Narthecium Array they may not add their Initiative score to Sweeping Advance rolls, this replaces the former modifiers to Sweeping Advances rather than being in addition to them.

-Loyalty and Purity Above All:


Models with the LA(SH) special rule gain the Preferred Enemy (Xenos) special rule as well as Hatred (Traitor Legions)


Legion Specific Wargear:

Hidden Content


The Primarch:
Hidden Content

 

Post-Insurrection/Battle of Terra Primarch:

Hidden Content

 

The Adopted Sister and Adviser to the Primarch!

Hidden Content


The First Captain, Former Legion Master:
Hidden Content


Now, Moving onto Legion Specific Units, we've got 2 and a Vehicle: The Phantoms, Depthstriders and Phaeton-Pattern Storm Eagle.

First Up, the Phantoms:
Hidden Content


Next Up, Depthstriders:
Hidden Content


Phaeton-Pattern Storm Eagle:

+++ Note: For those wondering why the majority of my Units use Volkite/Beam/Energy Weapons: Its because they are of better use, in my mind at least, in Underwater and Void Based Situations than, say, conventional bullets. Also, this Vehicle was made to be Underwater Operable per the fluff.

Hidden Content

 

Rite of War:

Hidden Content

Any C&C welcome no matter how Harsh (ok not that harsh, dont actively try to hurt my feelings tongue.png)


Edited by Slipstreams, 09 January 2017 - 01:33 AM.

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#2
Praefectus Invictus

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Looking good Slips. As for C&C, I would drop a wound from Pionus, and instead give him FnP (6+). Keeps with the Hospitalier theme, while not making it seem like he has a :cuss ton of wounds and is unkillable. He is right now a T7 W7 2+/3++ EW nigh unkillable character. I would bring as much D strength as possible against that. Just my C&C 

 

Disclaimer: That probably didn't make much sense. I'm real tired atm from a hard day at school lol.


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Blood Angels

HH Ultramarines

XI Legion: http://www.bolterand...n/#entry4140289

Khorne Daemonkin

 

Formerly Sanguinata

 

 

                           

                       


#3
Slips

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Yeah, I'll probably reduce his FNP Save down to 5+ or 4+ instead of 3+ so that he isn't T7 W7 2+/3++/3+++ with a Re-rollable 5+ IWND :P

 

 

But the point was to make him VERY hard to kill but not be that much of a CC beast. Hmm, WIP and all that.


Edited by Slipstreams, 11 August 2015 - 09:00 AM.

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#4
Praefectus Invictus

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Good idea msn-wink.gif . Also Where does it say that he has a 3+ FnP. I've read through his rules twice now but as I stated, I'm tired and may have missed something.


Blood Angels

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XI Legion: http://www.bolterand...n/#entry4140289

Khorne Daemonkin

 

Formerly Sanguinata

 

 

                           

                       


#5
Slips

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Good idea msn-wink.gif . Also Where does it say that he has a 3+ FnP. I've read through his rules twice now but as I stated, I'm tired and may have missed something.

It was in his Ultima Narthecium Array :P which I just edited to 4+


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#6
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Double post but, whatever! ITS MY THREAD!

 

Legions colors are:

 

Mother_of_Pearl.jpg

Primary and

 

BBRtom.jpg

 

Secondary.

 

DRIVING HOME THAT RED & WHITE APOTHECARY COLOR SCHEME YO! While still trying to be a bit different from the White Scars...


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#7
Praefectus Invictus

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You actually going to paint the red that metallic colour? Because that would look amazing, and completely different from White Scars. Fluff wise, could also be a metaphorical banner saying "Hey, leave us be, just caring for the wounded" sorta like in World War 1, when medics weren't focused with intense firepower because of the duty they were doing.


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Blood Angels

HH Ultramarines

XI Legion: http://www.bolterand...n/#entry4140289

Khorne Daemonkin

 

Formerly Sanguinata

 

 

                           

                       


#8
Slips

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I'll sure as hell try!

 

And yeah, that might be a good idea for when they aren't on the offensive or fighting Qarith/Orks/Other-Non-Eldar-Xenos or Debased Humans.


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#9
Chief Captain Redd

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I love the color combo! There are definitely ways to achieve a a great metallic crimson like that. I have an idea for it, I can mess around while painting tomorrow and see if what I'm thinking works and report back if you like.
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#10
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That would be awesome! Better than my idea of painting Blood For The Blood God over a metallic base hahhah

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#11
Grifftofer

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Ok. Pionus is an absolute beast. My initial thoughts are that he might be a little overpowered. T7, W7, 2+/3++/4+FNP, Re-roll IWND, -1S for ALL attacks against him and Jump Infantry!!

 

Even if he didn't provide bonuses for the army I'd say he'd be pretty much worth his points. Ok I've also just noticed that he has I7 too. I really think he needs some toning down.

 

Some starting ideas:

  • Remove shred from The Leviathan. Possibly Haywire too.
  • Lose the -1S rule on his armour. Either completely or in at least one of the phases otherwise he is completely immune to all S4 attacks and horrendously resistant to everything else.
  • If he has a jump pack make him Very Bulky (small thing, but can make a difference).
  • For the Crashing Wave I think the re-rolling charges is possibly enough of a bonus.
  • Finally reduce some of his stats. The key ones would be W and I. Even if you only drop them by 1 he would be at the Primarch average and still quick considering how hard he hits.
  • I'd also consider dropping the grenades too. He'll never actually use the kraks so they are completely superfluous. And not having frags would mean there is a way to make him not automatically strike first. It would also be an interesting tactical hole for you to cover as he can basically deal with any opponent currently.

Hope you don't think this is overly critical. He sounds awesome, but the rules feel a bit too much.


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#12
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Ok. Pionus is an absolute beast. My initial thoughts are that he might be a little overpowered. T7, W7, 2+/3++/4+FNP, Re-roll IWND, -1S for ALL attacks against him and Jump Infantry!!

 

Even if he didn't provide bonuses for the army I'd say he'd be pretty much worth his points. Ok I've also just noticed that he has I7 too. I really think he needs some toning down.

 

Some starting ideas:

  • Remove shred from The Leviathan. Possibly Haywire too.
  • Lose the -1S rule on his armour. Either completely or in at least one of the phases otherwise he is completely immune to all S4 attacks and horrendously resistant to everything else.
  • If he has a jump pack make him Very Bulky (small thing, but can make a difference).
  • For the Crashing Wave I think the re-rolling charges is possibly enough of a bonus.
  • Finally reduce some of his stats. The key ones would be W and I. Even if you only drop them by 1 he would be at the Primarch average and still quick considering how hard he hits.
  • I'd also consider dropping the grenades too. He'll never actually use the kraks so they are completely superfluous. And not having frags would mean there is a way to make him not automatically strike first. It would also be an interesting tactical hole for you to cover as he can basically deal with any opponent currently.

Hope you don't think this is overly critical. He sounds awesome, but the rules feel a bit too much.

All very good points tongue.png

 

Edit:

-Removed 'Nades,

-Made him Very Bulky (Hes Jump Infantry in the same way Curze is; hes from a High Gavity/High Pressure Planet so in normal-for-us circumstances, he should be faster than us - thats the justification for ti),

-Removed Shred from Leviathan

-Bumped his points to 460 from 440

-Adjusted the Negative Strength Modification that the Opalescent Ward gives.

-Restricted the IWND re-rolls to Twice Per Game.

-Will Think about Crashing Waves / Enveloping Sea.  They dont seem too excessive..well maybe a bit.. but he needs to buff his army is some other way LoL :P


Edited by Slipstreams, 11 August 2015 - 07:24 PM.

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#13
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I love the color combo! There are definitely ways to achieve a a great metallic crimson like that. I have an idea for it, I can mess around while painting tomorrow and see if what I'm thinking works and report back if you like.

 

What I tend to do with my dark eldar is leadbelcher followed by three layers of bloodletter glaze and then nuln oil.  That creates the purpley colour seen if you click the link in my sig.  Without the nuln it creates quite a vibrant metallic red.  I'll see if I can get some pics up today or tomorrow.



#14
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Edited the First Post with The Final, 3rd Character of the Legion, The Rules for LA:SH and Legion Specific Wargear.


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Okay, Slips, here's what I came up with for a metallic crimson.
Base coat matte black, Scab Red highlighted and blended with wildrider red and slayer orange then I went over with a VERY thin coat of tinbitz and then on the highlights very thin 50/25/25 blend of tinbitz, copper and silver and washed with baal red and Reikland fleshshade in the recesses. It looks perfect. I'm about to sleep but I'll try to get a photo of it tomorrow.
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#16
Slips

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Okay, Slips, here's what I came up with for a metallic crimson.
Base coat matte black, Scab Red highlighted and blended with wildrider red and slayer orange then I went over with a VERY thin coat of tinbitz and then on the highlights very thin 50/25/25 blend of tinbitz, copper and silver and washed with baal red and Reikland fleshshade in the recesses. It looks perfect. I'm about to sleep but I'll try to get a photo of it tomorrow.

Awesome dude! Thanks!


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Well Pionus is looking much better now, though I still feel that T,I & W of 7 is probably still a little too much.

 

 

The Armor also permits Pionus to Ignore the Effects of any Special Rule that would Negatively modify Pionus' Initiative.

Just wanting to check this little section. My reading of it is that it will not prevent Concussion from having an effect upon him. My reasoning is that it is not a negative modifier (+/-), it is setting the Initiative value to 1. However I assume that this is what you were attempting to cover. If this is the case then that means he never needed the frag grenades as cover would have no effect on him either.

 

For the Legion rules I like them, just feel you need a negative to balance all the awesomeness. Maybe a negative modifier to Sweeping advances and/or fall back distances (not really a negative I know) that increases after units have taken 25% (or 50%) casualties to represent the No Man Left Behind ethos. Kinda like this:

  • No Man Left Behind: Units with the LA:SH special rule suffer a -1 modifier to Sweeping Advance and Fall Back rolls. This modifier increases to -2 once the unit has suffered 25%(50%) casualties. Additionally If the unit contains a model with a Narthecium, Iona-Pattern Narthecium, The Saviour or Ultima Narthecium Array they may not add their Initiative score to Sweeping Advance rolls, this replaces the former modifiers to Sweeping Advances rather than being in addition to them.

The Narthecium bit was kind of a flash of inspiration that came from nowhere. Its a pretty harsh modifier over all, but should give you wiggle room for that other rule you were considering.

 

Inna seems mostly ok, from what I can tell, my issues would be with The Saviour. +1 W to a unit seems VERY powerful especially combined with 4+ FNP and the option of +2 T for a turn. Just imagine a unit of 20 2W Tactical Marines running at you with T6 and a 50% chance to shrug off any wounds you do manage to cause to them. I'd look at losing the +2 T bit and dropping the FNP to a regular 5+. Even then you've got an incredibly powerful unit enhancer, just not one that lets you steam-roller people. Oh a little thing could be to not allow the bonus wound to be given to Independent Characters only to more regular troops. Then you'd be buffing one unit substantially, but not every single character that joins them who could leave in turn one having benefited from a free extra wound.

 

On to Antonidas. He looks very nice to me. The Hoarfrost Toughness test seems very strong (A marine will fail 83% of the time) but within reason. I'd say he needs a bit of playtesting to see if he needs his points increasing by a small amount ~5-10. I also think that the Specter of Anatolia needs some refinement.

 

Antonidas and any Phantom Squad he joins may opt to Mark a Target after both sides have deployed and make an Infiltrate Redeployment  up to 18" from the marked target but out of direct Line of Sight from any enemy Model. If redeployed in this manner, Antonidas and his unit of Phantoms may still declare a Disordered Charge at their Marked Target in the Assault Phase.

Maybe re-write it to something like this:

  • Antonidas and any Phantom Squad he joins may choose to Mark a Target at the beginning of the game. Antonidas and his squad may deploy using the Infiltrate special rule, with the following alteration: Antonidas and his squad may make a disordered charge against their Marked Target during the first turn of the game which they are on the board.

This I think covers what you were aiming for as well as giving you the option of holding them in reserves to outflank if you wish. It also clarifies a little bit on the "Infiltrate Redeployment", as Infiltrate doesn't let you redeploy and Scout doesn't have restrictions on how close you can get.

 

Hope this is all useful to you in some way.


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#18
Slips

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Welp, I love everything you've said @_@

 

Time to Blatantly CopyPasta your suggestions LOL

 

As for the wording being wonky: Its a side effect of writing everything in one sitting with no breask >_>


Edited by Slipstreams, 13 August 2015 - 06:59 AM.

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#19
Grifftofer

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That's good. Don't want you to think I'm nerfing your ideas overly.


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#20
Slips

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That's good. Don't want you to think I'm nerfing your ideas overly.

Pffft Thats not really a fear of mine tongue.png

 

Besides, if it dials back some "Well, thats blatantly OP" IE, Inna with potentially 3 Wound Terminators with T6 and FNP (4+). As for Characters joining and popping off after T1, I did cap it at 4 so that her and praetor level characters wouldn't benefit but you're point stands and is well founded.

 

Instead of removing Inna's Toughness Bonus, I decided to nerf it a bit so I could still keep it in some form since, with how it is now, it feels more like a tactical choice rather than "Ehh, I'm about to get charged by a Primarch, Might as well turn it on and Uber-Tarpit them for ~2 Full Turns"

 

For Antonidas, while the test is pretty Brutal, I figure that -1 Initiative at maximum, isn't that much of a sucker punch to most CC focused Characters and it plays into the fluff of the weapons material.

 

Edit: As for concussive still working on Pionus, I'm actually fine with it since its mostly conferred through being hit by something really really hard vs being Initiative 1 since you charged through some bushes but didnt pack any 'nades, GGLOL


Edited by Slipstreams, 13 August 2015 - 07:21 AM.

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#21
Grifftofer

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My point was more that if one works both will as both set Initiative to 1 rather than giving a -number to it. It means that you'll be immune to things like Hoarfrost if anyone else takes up that mechanic, but not to the effects of Concussive, Unwieldy, charging through cover and probably some others that don't come to mind just now.

 

To prevent cover being an issue Frag/Plasma Grenades are an easy fix. For Concussive you could nick Guilliman's rule, others would be more tricky probably. This is of course if that is what you want to do. Just trying to make sure you are aware of any loopholes, Intentional or otherwise.


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#22
Slips

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My point was more that if one works both will as both set Initiative to 1 rather than giving a -number to it. It means that you'll be immune to things like Hoarfrost if anyone else takes up that mechanic, but not to the effects of Concussive, Unwieldy, charging through cover and probably some others that don't come to mind just now.

 

To prevent cover being an issue Frag/Plasma Grenades are an easy fix. For Concussive you could nick Guilliman's rule, others would be more tricky probably. This is of course if that is what you want to do. Just trying to make sure you are aware of any loopholes, Intentional or otherwise.

Fair enough! I'll take it into consideration!


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Another Double Post.

 

Updated the First post with the Phantoms and Depthstriders. Will get to the Vehicles at a later date.


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I'm back again ;)

 

Phantoms:

  • Not sure how I feel about the Rad Grenades being given to the whole squad, especially for only 15 points. I think you should either go the route of only the Specter can have them at +10 points or a whole unit upgrade for +50 points. I know it's a lot, but it tracks with the melta-bombs upgrade and means that its only +5pts per model at full strength. Which is pretty good for what they do.
  • They look to have been based on the Dark Furies (arguably one of the best jump pack units seen so far) but lose the Artificer armour on the sergeant for a 10 point cost drop. However you have +1WS over them so I think that your starting cost should be at least the same as theirs. Also you are charging less per model for extra bodies so I think it would be reasonable to bump them to +30 points per extra guy.
  • I'd say that this will make them better balanced though still powerful. And they will be more adaptable than Dark Furies with widespread access to melta-bombs.

Depthstriders

  • Sorry to say it, but these guys are blatantly OP :S They are Fire Drakes with +1T, +1A on the regular guys, Rad Grenade Harnesses, Wave Blades over Power Weapons, Volkite Calivers over Combi-bolters as well as Fearless and all for 45 points less than the firedrakes. So no. I say no to these guys ;)
  • First off. Give them power weapons with the option to upgrade to Wave Blades. Except maybe on the Divemaster who could start with one. I think about +10-15 points would be appropriate for the Wave Blade as an upgrade.
  • Drop the attacks on the regular Striders down to 2.
  • Swap the Calivers for Chargers, as that is the standard Terminator volkite weapon.
  • Make the Irradiation Engine upgrade Irrad-Cleansers instead. Torrent, Fleshbane AP3 template weapons on a hard as nails terminator deathstar unit is going to lose you friends very quickly :P And drop the points to either +50 for the unit or +10 per model, this will be on par with the Thallax upgrade option or cheaper if you go for a full unit with the fixed cost option.
  • I'd also make the Rad Harness an upgrade option for the Divemaster.
  • After all that the unit is probably worth about 300-325 points at the low end and the additional Striders should be 45-50 points each.
  • I'd also consider adding a couple of minor things to them. Like Chosen of Pionus to allow you to take them as command squads and maybe Move Through Cover to represent that they are designed to work submerged. Which to me would be difficult terrain at the least. Of course doing either of those things may warrant a smallish points increase, mainly thinking of the Move Through Cover rule here.

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#25
Slips

Slips

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*snip*

 

That was my main fear with the DepthStriders Confirmed LOL I was really going back and forth with their gear and stats for a LOOONG time and went "ehhh ~45pts per Terminator Should be ok with what these guys got"

 

As for the Rad Weapons: I agree tongue.png Its just that I was initially going over an older version of the Engine that listed it as Ap4 when in book 4, they're Ap3 I just went "ehh" and changed the value.

 

Fair enough everything else.


Edited by Slipstreams, 14 August 2015 - 08:29 AM.

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