What are Company Veterans good for?

[WellSpokenMan]

Sorry, I'm not trying to be obnoxious. They are very similar, so it's hard for me not to compare them when they are competing for the same role. I won't mention them again

Vets do get an 2 Special Weapons for a full squad, so 2 Grav guns, a Grav Cannon, and a bunch of Storm Shields will make for a very annoying unit sitting on an objective. Ezekiel and 9 vets with SS and LC/PF are also quite nasty, if you can get them into CC.

[shabbadoo]

The Command Squad is obviously decent for its size, but the one area it cannot compare in is Wounds. They simply can't be built to have as much staying power as Company Veterans. That, and needing to take 3 casualties instead of 2 before testing for Morale, is a point in favor of the Company Veterans. Unit size can be very important. Enough of that though.

10 Company Veterans equipped for close combat, plus whomever, storming out of a Land Raider is a very good "hammer" unit. And, if you want to, you don't even have to give them too much gear, but instead run them more plain as a "better than an Assault Squad" footslogger unit. 10 of them equipped somewhat cheaply are good for a Drop Pod too, as it gets them where you need them quick. Such a cheap version of Company Veterans will do bad things to a gun-line army- especially those that are weak in close combat such as Tau and IG. A somewhat cheap unit can also cause major problems to mech armies, especially those with paper vehicles like Dark Eldar and Orks. If taken as part of a Lion's Blade, not only will they drop in and shoot something up, but they will Overwatch at full BS at anything charging them, meaning lightly armored armies- even those equipped to deal some pain in close combat, like Orks and Dark Eldar- are really going to hate Companjy Veterans who will shoot them dead if the enemy assaults them. Whether cheaply equipped or tooled up for DEATH, Company Veterans represent a variety of threats. You just need a plan for them. Company Support in the form of Drop Pods for all Lion's Blade units would be fairly rude. 50+ marine Drop Pod in Turn 1, shoot stuff dead, and stand there waiting to Overwatch at full BS. "Go ahead. Charge us. We triple-dog-dare you!" What you don't deal with immediately will be reinforced by much more soon enough, but two full 10-man squads of Company Veterans - even without Azrael or Ezekiel - being in the initial drop could really bolster such a formation; even if they are not given very much gear.

[Syphid]

10 BP/CCW Company Vets with Ezekiel and Righteous Repugnance is 60 attacks on the charge, plus Force Weapon attacks.   Command Squad can't do that.

[WellSpokenMan]

In a Lion's Blade I think it would be better to keep them shooty, but that's just like, my opinion, man.  There are other units that, model for model, are better at close combat.  If I was going to take a Land Raider, I'd take DWK.  If I was going to take a drop pod, I'd take the unit I've already described earlier in the thread.  In a Lion's Blade I would already have an Assault Unit that I would be using to harass IG and the like.  

 

Edited for grammar

[march10k]

I could see them being "better than an assault squad" charging out of a crusader with 2-3 power weapons (4 attacks, plus a shot, on the charge) with a chaplain...but I agree with what has been said about prefering DWK for that role...

[Elios Harg]

Assuming you use a drop pod for the Azz-Zeke deathstar, would the additional 3 veterans you can take be worth giving up an Apothecary and a Chapter Banner? They are the cheaper option for an already expensive unit and FNP adds more to survivability than 3 more 1 wound models. You do lose some attacks and shooting, but I think the expense of running the extra vets swings things back into the Command Squad's favor.

Yes, the command squad is always superior to company veterans. The only reason to field company veterans is because you are limited on taking command squads such as in a demi-company.

 

I think the demi-company priority list for the optional units is as follows:

 

1) Command Squad

2) Dreads

3) Company Veterans

 

Company Veterans are not a bad unit at all. They are just outdone in all ways other than squad size than command squads. To make them worth fielding you have to maximize their strengths.

 

-max unit size of ten

-two special and one heavy weapon at full size

-can be fielded in addition to a command squad in the demi-company formation

 

In a Lion's Blade full battle company, I would likely field them in full units of 10 to unlock the extra special weapon. You can run them with 2 grav guns and grav cannon with a drop pod. They are kind of a hybrid between tacticals, devastators and command squads in this way. Maybe sprinkle in a couple of power weapons to give them more close combat punch. I prefer to keep them as cheap as possible, however. Note these units would only see the table after I already have two command squads as they are always better thanks to relentless, FNP and more grav shots.

[IanSturrock]

I agree with the analysis that they get used as a 3rd priority after command squads and dreads... but I'm not sure, at that point, exactly what problem they are solving. I imagine that in a game big enough to have filled out both my command squad and dread options, I'd be thinking about which extra auxiliaries to take, rather than thinking of adding vets.

[Erren]

Right. By the time I've got a full battle company with dread(s), command squad(s), and an auxiliary, plus gear for all of them, I'm probably around the 2000 point level, if not 2500. If I'm adding on after that, I'm going to be trying to get superheavy tanks, not add more marines. 10 with some power weapons and an IC coming out of a land raider might be fun, but getting an assaulty land raider into a Lion's Blade isn't simple or cheap.

[Solrac]

I have had great success in a couple of games so far running 10 in a pod. 2 Plasma Guns, 1 Grav Cannon dropping onto an objective in cover lasting a few turns until some support got up there. If I had more points to spend I would give all the other guys Storm Bolters for that extra shot at long range and a couple of Storm Shields for tanking.

[aura_enchanted]

another good sue for them is an HQ assassin unit, i did this once in the old codex and it stands the test of time in fact its gotten cheaper, this only really works in 1250 ish games but it has its uses.

 

land raider redeemer (240)

1x10 veterans, 10 grav pistols (330)

chaplain (90)

 

you hurly yourself at the enemy HQ and his babysitters and disembark, dump grav pistols and the bolt pistol in their face at point blank and then charge in, you effectively will cause massive damage. at the points bracket terminators arent an option to bubble wrap nor are meganobz and magic shenanigans will be at a premium in most armies. the grav will all but strip away his bubble wrap and the veterans have more than enough chainsword to kill whatevers left standing. its virtually guaranteed STWL. the only exception really is pask because he can hide in his tin box and bjorn the fell-handed but both of those cant LoS so they have other problems to deal with including being lascannoned.

[shabbadoo]

In a Lion's Blade I think it would be better to keep them shooty, but that's just like, my opinion, man. There are other units that, model for model, are better at close combat.

True to the first, the second not so much. Model for model, yes; points for points, no. DWKs will murder stuff, sure, but Company Veterans in a Lion's Blade do have ObSec, which can be useful in forcing the enemy to engage in certain ways. As to Lion's Blade Drop Pod Company Veterans, I agree that taking advantage of their full BS Overwtch is practically a must (unless one goes cheap with them). We now even have access to a versatile heavy weapon worth putting in the unit - the grav cannon - as it has a mobile fire option that doesn't limit it to snap shots (gotta love Salvo :D). I would be more inclined to go plasma/grav pistol/grav gun/combi-grav/meltabombs, plus a powerfist or two, such that the unit still maintains a good deal of its close combat capabailtiy (i.e. most models will have 2 Attacks base, plus 1 for a second close combat weapon/pistol). They will threaten anything that attemtps to charge, and yet can still deal with heavy/heavily armed close combat units (well, what's left of them after Overwatch ). I'll have to think about a couple of configurations.

[mika_angelus]

To answer the OP's question fully, Company Veterans are good for 3 things :

 

- a better tactical squad where you can have a heavy and special weapon in a smaller unit or 2 specials and a heavy at 10 models

- a full strenght drop pod kill squad which can combat squad and possibly destroy 2 targets

- an extra objective secured unit in Lion's Blade

 

You can also count the option of a an assault unit with some close combat weapons, storm shields and characters in a transport of your choice. But I don't rate this one as good because of it's cost and the support it needs to work.

[Dark_Master]

I plan on continuing to use my Vet squad from last codex.

 

1 x Multimelta, 2 x Melta, 5 x Combi-Melta & 2 x Storm shield for tanking.

 

I know the MM will only have snap shot, but an opponent will have to deal with it.

 

My command squad I'm converting to Grav, for the combo the banner gives the squad.

 

DM

[Master Avoghai]

In 6th edition, that combi-plasma may have been forced to take the 1 shot beyond 12” or 2 snapshots during overwatch, but with the Supreme Fire Discipline rule you can enjoy that rapid-fire overwatch at full BS

Why would have they been forced to take one shoot beyond 12" and not be able to take 2 shot within 12" instead?

[ANevskyUSA]

Here is what I think would be fun:

 

The John Woo: Arm the whole squad with Plasma Pistols and Bolt Pistols for 2 shots in shooting with 3 attacks in close combat.  Maybe mix in a couple with storm shields and flamers to tank hits and further discourage charging the unit.  Insert via drop pod or rhino.  The idea behind this is a versatile close-range shooty squad that is also good in close combat such that it take a charge or charge effectively.  33 points per model.

 

Legion Breacher Squad Redux: Arm the squad with storm shields and storm bolters and start walking down the field shooting stuff.  Perhaps throw in a couple with grav guns and one with the grav cannon + grav amp.  33 points per model (except for the guy with the heavy weapon).  The idea behind this is a discount terminator squad that has less melee punch, but is actually better against AP2 shooting.