Loyalists' Strategium

[bluntblade]

They should

[Demus Ragnok]

Maybe point defense weapons but I've never read mention of any battery fire or lances from the stern.

[Nomus Sardauk]

I concur with Demus, I've never heard of or seen any Imperial vessel with rear facing weapons. I think it's due to how GW designed them to fight like Age of Sail Tallships, with the broadsides being where most of the firepower is located and the rest at the front for when you're closing the distance to the enemy, only the biggestTallships like Man'O'Wars had rear facing guns, and even then there weren't very many of them.

[bluntblade]

I distinctly remember as sloop in a story set in the 19th century having cannon at the rear. But I take your point

 

Maybe that can be a nod to the Lightning Bearers' naval aspect, as Icarion institutes the use of rear-mounted guns

[Grifftofer]

If you look at a lot of the models though, you'd struggle to fit more than a turret or two over the rear of the ships, the engines just take up so much of the rear sections.

[bluntblade]

Maybe have some aft on the top and sides? So at least it's possible to turn slightly and get some shots off.

 

I completely forgot about the whole retros, rocket ships thing

[Skalpynock]

Just apply the Kzinti Lesson: in space, powerful engines make powerful weapons.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Just apply the Kzinti Lesson: in space, powerful engines make powerful weapons.

You make a fair point, given the size of most Imperial starship engines most projectiles fired at a ship's rear would probably be either vaporised or blasted off course by the sheer power of thrust they'd have to fight through.

[simison]

Can torpedoes be directed mid-flight?

[Nomus Sardauk]

Can torpedoes be directed mid-flight?

 

Maybe? 40k's torpedos are certainly colossal enough to fit some sort of remote-guidance system (probably full of wired-in servitors), so I'd say it's plausible at least.

[Sigismund229]

 

 

Can torpedoes be directed mid-flight?

Maybe? 40k's torpedos are certainly colossal enough to fit some sort of remote-guidance system (probably full of wired-in servitors), so I'd say it's plausible at least.

Or...given that no resource is cheaper in the Imperium than human lofe...a pilot?

[Nomus Sardauk]

 

 

Can torpedoes be directed mid-flight?

Maybe? 40k's torpedos are certainly colossal enough to fit some sort of remote-guidance system (probably full of wired-in servitors), so I'd say it's plausible at least.

Or...given that no resource is cheaper in the Imperium than human lofe...a pilot?

 

 

Hmm, possible, but I'd have serious concerns over the commitment of the pilot, plus given the prevalence of Psykers in our Civil War what's to stop an enemy telepath from mind-controlling the would-be martyr back toward his own ships? Servitors feel like a safe, more reliable option to me.

[bluntblade]

I'd say piloted torpedoes are 40K material, not 30K

[simison]

I'd say piloted torpedoes are 40K material, not 30K

 

Agreed. Even if we were going that grimdark, Alex's morality probably wouldn't allow for it. I think I need to research some Battlefleet Gothic. 

[Generalripphook]

Boarding torpedo can make turns, so can eldar and tau I believe.

 

Sloops and other sail ships often had two rear/front facing cannons.

 

If you want to design a ship I would use STARSHIP! Rules to get a gyst of ship capabilities (pm me if you want the rules)

[simison]

Boarding torpedo can make turns, so can eldar and tau I believe.

 

Sloops and other sail ships often had two rear/front facing cannons.

 

If you want to design a ship I would use STARSHIP! Rules to get a gyst of ship capabilities (pm me if you want the rules)

 

Appreciate the gesture, but if you can hunt down the Battlefleet Gothic rules and give me a summary on rear weapons or guided weapons, that'd be awesome. Though completely voluntary if you don't want to.

[bluntblade]

Does anyone have any views on what should kick off the Schism of Mars? I don't think the Insurrectionists will have the same keys to the vaults that Horus supplied Kelbor-Hal with in canon. Rough events, as far as I can surmise, are:

- Insurrectionists go on the offensive on the Day of Revelation

- Halcyon Wardens arrive led by Irvin Ruel (backed by other Astartes and Army units?) and secure the Loyalist strongholds

- Alexandros saves Magma City by totalling a maniple of Legio Mortis

- After the Dragon of Autumn arrives, Alexandros makes planetfall and goes on the offensive

- Kelbor-Hal survives, but is out of favour with Icarion, paving the way for the forge lords of Cognis and Akira to supersede him

[Generalripphook]

Maybe he promises more? Or uncovers rare technology in the eastern lands?

 

Maybe in this one Kelbor-Hal contacts Icarion?

[bluntblade]

Any ideas for particular tech if we go with that?

[Generalripphook]

It has to be something valuable enough to betray the imperium, maybe go star wars route and maybe like a literal forge planet made of metal?

 

Or perhaps the perfect assention to being machine?

[Generalripphook]

Ooh maybe he uncovers an ancient form of transportation?

 

Or maybe he unovered how to create new "necrons"?

 

Maybe that's why the necrons start rising again in this era? They have been activated by Kelbor-Hal

[bluntblade]

I like the repurposed Necrons idea

[Nomus Sardauk]

I imagine Icarion could sway Kelbor-Hal with the promise that the Auretian Technocracy, Demiurge, etc, basically all these new technological powerhouses that are undermining the Mechanicum's power & influence, will be destroyed and any technology they have will be given to the AdMech, as it should have been in the first place.

[Grifftofer]

 

Boarding torpedo can make turns, so can eldar and tau I believe.

 

Sloops and other sail ships often had two rear/front facing cannons.

 

If you want to design a ship I would use STARSHIP! Rules to get a gyst of ship capabilities (pm me if you want the rules)

 

Appreciate the gesture, but if you can hunt down the Battlefleet Gothic rules and give me a summary on rear weapons or guided weapons, that'd be awesome. Though completely voluntary if you don't want to.

 

 

Ah. It's almost like my calling (Ioved BFG back in the day).

 

Rear facing weapons: The only ships (not space stations which normally had all round weapons) to have them that I recall were the Kroot Warshperes, Ork Roks and the Space Hulk. The Hulk itself was the only thin with 'true' rear arc weapons as the others simply had All Round weapons due to their shape/rotation.

 

Torpedoes: Only Tau and Boarding torpedoes had the capability to turn natively (Tau ones were also variable speed, Eldar ones just hit things really good). However there was a specialist Torpedoes list which could be acquired which had 6 much rarer types that could be taken as campaign refits (or with points in single games). They were:

• Short Burn Torpedoes (Faster, but could 'burn-out' before reaching the target.)
• Guided Torpedoes (Guided to the target by nearby ships, could turn but could also be taken control of by enemy ships.)
• Seeker Torpedoes (Self guided torpedoes, could turn and wouldn't hit friendly ships, but the seeker systems could stop working causing the Torpedo to go dead.)
• Barrage Bombs (Primarily a Planetary Bombardment weapon, but could be used against ships too. Didn't ignore shields like other torpedoes, but was much more likely to cause critical damage to ship systems.)
• Melta Torpedoes (Instead of causing damage would cause Fire Criticals, which could burn for multiple turns.)*
• Vortex Torpedoes (Open holes into the warp, auto caused a critical hit on impact in addition to their normal damage.)*

* Both of these were extremely rare and could only be used once per game, where the others could be used for every salvo of torpedoes from the ship. Also if the ship suffered a critical hit to where the weapons were stored before firing they would explode causing D3 fires in the case of the Melta torpedoes and D3 criticals in the case of Vortex torpedoes (or maybe it was D3 damage and a critical hit, I don't have the books all to hand).

[MikhalLeNoir]

I imagine Icarion could sway Kelbor-Hal with the promise that the Auretian Technocracy, Demiurge, etc, basically all these new technological powerhouses that are undermining the Mechanicum's power & influence, will be destroyed and any technology they have will be given to the AdMech, as it should have been in the first place.

 

Yeah, destroy the xenos influences. Keep the mechanicum clean from them. The mechanicum could see their place at the sun in danger ( from kelbor hals position) and he wants to go back to times when the mechanicum was the pinnacle of human technology creators. Now we have demiurge technology which dwarves the successes of the mechanicum or auretians who let the mechanicum look old fashioned.