MikhalLeNoir Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Yeah. Him shooting makes him very distinct. Maybe orientate yourself on cypher a bit as he his da boss for gunslinger. And make those traits primarchlike. Fun thing is that the warriors of oeace field a gunslinger troopchoice and have this cc monster. Will you field then cc minsters to balance it out ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Updated rules: Azus Bahmut – 405 pts Primarch of the Fourteenth, Ghost of the Sands, The King of Darkness WS: 6 BS: 8 S: 6 T: 6 W: 5 I: 7 A: 4 Ld: 10 Sv: 2+ Unit Composition: · 1 (Unique) Unit Type: · Infantry (Character) Wargear: · Armour of the Sands · Devil’s Vengeance · Anarchy · Frag, defensive and smoke grenades Special Rules: · Primarch · Sire of the Dune Serpents · Ghost of the Sands · Lone Hunter · Bulky Warlord Trait: · Night Attacker Armour of the Sands: During the early years of the Great Crusade, Azus clashed with wyches belonging to the Cult of the Red Grief. He took note of the Night Shields with which the xenos transports were fitted, and charged his allies within the mechanicum with reproducing this technology and incorporating it into his armour. The Armour of the Sands confers a 2+ armour save, a 4+ invulnerable save and the Stealth and Shrouded special rules. Devil’s Vengeance: The Devil’s Vengeance is a large rifle, made to Azus’ specifications by the Techmarines of the Dune Serpents, and named after a legend of his homeworld. The rifle fires four types of unique ammunition, the most infamous being the Separator Round, named for both the smoke canister that detaches itself as the projectile flies through the air, and the bullet’s uncanny ability to separate head from body. Each shooting phase, the bearer of Devil’s Vengeance may choose which type of specialist ammunition it will use. Fleshburner Rounds: RNG: 30” S: 6 AP: 3 Assault 3 Deflagrate, Rending Electroscrambler Rounds: RNG: 24” S: 1 AP: 2 Assault 2 Haywire Nervebane Canisters: RNG: 36” S: 1 AP: 5 Assault 1 Fleshbane, Pinning, Strikedown, Blast Separator Bolt-Rounds: RNG: 72” S: 8 AP: 1 Heavy 1 Firing Calibration, Instant Death, Bone Crusher, Inbuilt Smoke Canister Bone Crusher: Against models with the Eternal Warrior special rule, each unsaved wound caused by this weapon multiplies to two. Inbuilt Smoke Canister: Extend a line between Azus and the closest model in the target unit, after firing. Place a smoke grenade marker 4d6” along that line Anarchy: The same enormous scimitar Azus was given as a child on Dhul’Hasa, Anarchy has since shrunk in comparison to its superhuman owner. Upon making contact with the Imperium, Anarchy was given to the artificers of Terra. It emerged again having been hollowed out and fitted with a power field, meaning Azus could swing it as easily as if it were his own hand while carving through all in his path. Anarchy is a melee weapon that uses the following profile: RNG: - S: User AP: 3 Melee, Master-crafted, Duellist’s Edge, Rending Sire of the Dune Serpents: Having trained with almost all the ranged weapons under Dhul’Hasa’s two suns, Azus makes Precision Shots on to hit rolls of 4+, and at any point at which Azus is required to Snap Shoot, he does so on a 4+. Note that these Snap Shots may still not generate Precision Shots. All friendly models with the Legiones Astartes (Dune Serpents) special rule gain Stealth if they are within 12 inches of Azus. Ghost of the Sands: Azus is a master of the art of stealth, and can melt away into the shadows at will, much to the terror of those opposing him. Once per game, at the end of the friendly turn, Azus may use this ability. This means that no enemy models may draw line of sight to him, and all enemy units within 12 inches that could draw line of sight to Azus must take a morale check as if they had just lost a combat. This ability lasts until the beginning of the next friendly turn. Lone Hunter: The Primarch of the Dune Serpents has conditioned himself to have few allies, and prefers his own company above all, as he has none that rely on him or slow him down. Azus may never join a unit, but may Run and shoot in the same shooting phase. If he does so, he may only fire Snap Shots. Edited February 24, 2016 by Big Bad Squig Demus Ragnok 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphariusOmegon108 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I would say 5 wounds, that would help him be more balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifftofer Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 He looks good. Just one thing, the smoke canister launcher. What does it actually do? As smoke grenades are pretty much just defensive grenades now and don't have any LoS blocking/cover generating effect any more. That I know of at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Clearly you have not encountered my special brand of smoke grenades: Smoke grenades:During the shooting phase, instead of firing one of its weapons, a model may use a smoke grenade. Place a small blast marker anywhere within 8" of the firer. It then scatters 2D6 inches minus the firer's ballistic skill. Alternatively, the marker can be placed directly over the firer. It does not scatter if dropped in this manner. Either way, anything within or being targeted through the blast marker gain a 5+ cover save. The marker is treated as difficult terrain for movement and charging purposes. These effects cease at the start of the next friendly shooting phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Oooh, Warmachine-y. I like him. I'd hover around 400pts? Lone Killer should bring his cost down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphariusOmegon108 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 410 pts sounds like a good one to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifftofer Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Oh cool. I seem to be missing more and more stuff recently, either that or I'm just completely forgetting reading about things :P I agree with the above though, just over the 400 point mark sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I have finalised the rules (edited into my previous post). Thanks for the help guys simison 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Okay, I have spent an hour studying Lorgar (Transfigured), Dorn, and Guilliman to get an idea of how many points canon Alex should be. Unlike my usual Primarch calculator, my focus was to absorb the Primarchs as a whole and compare them just on an overall understanding of their strengths. In conclusion, I think Alex should be either 430 or 440 points. Lorgar edges him out in psyker ability because he can outright choose his powers and his army buffs are widespread and significant, even if Alex has more adaptability. Both Guilliman and Dorn have more options when it comes to close combat and have powerful army buffs. Against them, it is Alex's psyker abilities that gives himself an edge over both of them, but it's not entirely reliable due to the nature of warp charges. I'm leaning towards 430. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 D'you think that sets a precedence for reductions on other BotL Primarchs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Well, I for one would welcome Pionus getting a Re-Evaluation :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I reckon most of the early ones could do with a peek, even if it's a just-in-case scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'd be happy to scale down Jackel a bit, looking at him retrospectively he is quite powerful. I'd probably drop his WS and I by 1, and revise the axe and bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Alright is another edited version of Nikki. Niklaas Primarch of the Fire Keepers 455 points The Steel Prince, The Sudden Storm, Bane of Witches, The Beast Slayer Niklaas WS: 7 BS: 6 S: 7 T: 7 W: 6 I: 5 A: 4 Ld: 10 Special Rules Primarch Sire of the Fire Keepers The Sudden Storm Very Bulky Deep Strike Wargear The Habergeon The Redeemer The Habergeon is a suit of terminator armor forged by Niklaas himself, it provides unparalleled protection from harm both physical and psychic. The Habergeon includes the following features. -A 2+ armor save and a 3+ invulnerable save. -A null matrix that allows Niklaas to successfully Deny the Witch on a 4+ when targeted by a psychic power. Additionally Niklaas may never benefit from friendly Psychic powers of any type. (Niklaas does not receive this bonus when attempting to Deny the Witch on powers that are not targeting him, such as enemy psykers casting blessing on themselves.) -A Nuncio Vox. -A built in Heavy Flamer. The Redeemer Wrought from an ancient meteorite found deep in the forests of Obsailes the head of this war hammer has the appearance of polished black stone and a dread reputation among friend and foe alike. Range:- Strength:10 AP:1 Melee,Concussive, Bane of Witches Bane of Witches: Failed to wound and armor penetration rolls against models with the psyker or daemon type made with this weapon may be rerolled. Sire of the Fire Keepers Niklaas has the Monster Hunter special rule. All Fire Keepers units gain the Stubborn special rule while Niklaas is on the table. The Sudden Storm Legion Terminator Squads with the Legion Astartes: Fire Keepers rule in an army that includes Niklaas gain Deep Strike. Edited December 5, 2015 by Demus Ragnok Raktra 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 D'you think that sets a precedence for reductions on other BotL Primarchs? I don't see why not. Keep in mind, that's canon Alex who got the debuff. Warmaster Alex is going to be at 500 points. As Grifft said, we should be aiming for an overall average, which I think should be around (ironically) 430 to 440. Not everyone has to reduce in points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'm not overly keen on changing Hectarion as I like him how he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'm not overly keen on changing Hectarion as I like him how he is And that's fine. Not every Primarch needs to be re-evaluated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Weeeeell seeing as we are rejigging primarch rules. I tried to trim mine down but I don't think I accomplished much. Niklaas Primarch of the Fire Keepers 4-- points The Steel Prince, The Sudden Storm, Bane of Witches, The Beast Slayer Niklaas WS: 7 BS: 6 S: 7 T: 7 W: 7 I: 5 A: 4 Ld: 10 Special Rules Primarch Sire of the Fire Keepers The Sudden Storm Very Bulky Wargear The Habergeon Teleport Homer Cognis Signum Nuncio Vox The Redeemer The Habergeon is a suit of terminator armor forged by Niklaas himself, it provides unparalleled protection from harm both physical and psychic. The Habergeon includes the following features. -A 2+ armor save and a 3+ invulnerable save. -Niklaas and any unit he joins may Deny the Witch on 3+. -A set of digital weapons that may be fired as a Heavy Flamer or Multi melta. The Redeemer Wrought from an ancient meteorite found deep in the forests of Obsailes the head of this war hammer has the appearance of polished black stone and a dread reputation among friend and foe alike. Range:- Strength:10 AP:1 Melee,Concussive, Bane of Witches Bane of Witches: Failed to wound and armor penetration rolls against models with the psyker or daemon type made with this weapon may be rerolled. Sire of the Fire Keepers Niklaas has the Relentless and Monster Hunter special rules. All Fire Keepers units gain the Stubborn special rule while Niklaas is on the table. The Sudden Storm All Legion Terminator Squads gain Deep Strike if Niklaas is part of an army. +++++ I swapped the 8 toughness for another wound, dropped FNP in CC with psykers/daemons, changed ranged weapons dropped the big mess that was Master Smith and changed around some special rules. He is tough but only has 4 attacks and only gets rerolls against witches,daemons and MCs. And gave terms deep strike. Points I think he is about even with Pert with Forgebreaker(which is were he was anyway). Watcha think? The 3++ with 7 wounds I find pretty scary, but then I always thought that's how Mortarion SHOULD be without FNP, so seems cool to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 *Glances at Pionus' Rules* ....Yeah Totally, Raktra... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 Question, why does Niklaas have Relentless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 *Glances at Pionus' Rules* ....Yeah Totally, Raktra... I forgot about you *doomy glare* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Question, why does Niklaas have Relentless?So he can shoot his multi melta and still charge if need be. Which is something I changed about 4 times before posted. Melt or no melta I'm still on the fence about it. Edited October 31, 2015 by Demus Ragnok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 Right, for some reason, I thought a multi-melta was an assault weapon. My bad. Demus Ragnok 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Next question, why is his Denial 3+? (Trivia: Both Mortarion and Vulkan are 425 points) Edited October 31, 2015 by simison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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