Primarchs vs Knights

[v6v77]

Hey all

 

Thinking of running a list (unbound) containing 4 primarchs vs a guys knight list.

 

No one in our local meta can beat him with 4 knights, 2 fortifications and an assassin. He's very smug and loves to play his cheesy list and gloat.

 

So i thought i would play him at his own game and bring the following.

 

Alpharius

Vulkan

Perturabo

Angron

 

And see how he feels about that.

 

Anyone got any thoughts on how to make this better while staying at roughly the same points value (below 1850).

 

Despite being an AL player i see Alpharius as the weakest one here. Vulkan i think is gonna do alot of heavy lifting as is Angron if i can get him into combat.

[Slips]

Vulkan is hilarious vs Melta, Flamer, Plasma, Fusion, Volkite or other 'Energy' Based weapons since he reduces their S Value when shot at him by Half.

 

That Knights S9 Melta Cannon? yeah, Vulkan Tanks the Shot. Its now S4 (if rounding Down). GLHF wounding his T7 and getting through the following 3++ and re-rollable IWND. Bonus is that he hits at S10 In CC. At Initiative 5.

 

Angron is Solid if you get him in. too bad theres no Sacrificial Chaff to increase his # of Attacks. Still, 6 S9 (on the charge) Ap2 Armorbane attacks is going to wreck a lot of stuff.

 

I'd Probably Take Ferrus over Perturabo mostly since hes effectively T8 vs Shooting and has more S10 Hammer hits at Initiative 5 while also being Relentless and having a Graviton gun for some Haywire Shots on the way there which he can shoot twice per turn.

 

Alpharius is more of an Army buffer than a Combat Monster. His attacks being only S6 Armorbane means that unless hes hitting rear armor its not the best.

 

In his place, Horus would be a good option but, if you cant fit him in, Mortarion would be a good alternative. He's ultra tough like Vulkan, and Ferrus, has some mobility Shenanigans and, while he is sadly Unwieldy, he's striking at S7 Sunder while also having S8 Ap2 Shooting. Guilliman might also be a good alternative due to how resilient he can be.

 

A list of:

 

Angron

Vulkan

Ferrus

Guilliman

 

Leaves you with 170 Points to play with. Taking Horus > Guilliman leaves you with 70 points left over.

[jeremy1391]

While a primarch super friends list seems cool you would have to gang up on the Knights to prevent them from being able to swing, the D weapons they carry in close combat will end your Primarchs.

 

Have you thought of taking transfigured lorgar? Nothing like some invisible Primarchs!

[ChainMachete]

While a primarch super friends list seems cool you would have to gang up on the Knights to prevent them from being able to swing, the D weapons they carry in close combat will end your Primarchs.

 

Have you thought of taking transfigured lorgar? Nothing like some invisible Primarchs!

 

Lorgar can't take Invisibility anymore.  However if you don't mind limiting yourself to traitors, why not take 3-4 primarchs plus Be'lakor for his guaranteed Invisibility.

[WolfOfHorus]

Horus with invisibility, deliciously evil.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Tell him to not bring an Assassin. and drop to only a single Fortress. It's not like it's legal. 

[Flint13]

From experience, I can tell you Angron will straight up end any knight he touches.

 

Hatred and strength 8 armorbane at initiative 7 against AV13 has let me kill Knights that charged me before they could swing on two separate occasions. Typically when Angron is leading my World Eaters I'm a little more concerned with the damage its exploding corpse will do than what the actual Knight can manage.

[Noserenda]

Except Lancers, Lancers eat Primarchs :/ (Unless you gang up :D )

[Drunken Aussie]

If anyone bought 4 knights at 1850 i would probably kick them in the nuts then walk away,

 

if your taking an unbound list try 4x3 grav rapiers see how long he lasts with 12 haywire shots a turn

[v6v77]

If anyone bought 4 knights at 1850 i would probably kick them in the nuts then walk away,

 

if your taking an unbound list try 4x3 grav rapiers see how long he lasts with 12 haywire shots a turn

He gets very very defensive with any discussion regarding the power of superheavies. We have a thread going in our club forun right now and he is getting majorly butthurt at all the people coming out the woodwork and say they dislike playing his knights.

 

The grav rapier idea might be nice. Can he take invulns against them?

 

If so i may be better off with quad mortars. 4 batteries = 48 s8 reroll to pen shots.

[WolfOfHorus]

Honestly, 4 knights sounds like a fun matchup, as long as you have a list tailored for them.

 

In fact, most of the time it's a very one sided against the Knight player because of the very nature of the list. You either table them or you lose, it's as simple as that.

 

Now Wraithknight spam, that's pretty ridiculous.

[Flint13]

Ah, see... Lancers might cause Angron trouble if they went before him, but at Initiative 7, he is comfortably ahead of even their charging initiative of 5.

 

If somehow he didn't kill it (maybe luck with that 5+ invuln or if concussed by the shock lance), the Knight-Lancer would only be hitting him on 5's with what, 5 attacks?

 

I'd still put money on Angron being able to swing enough armor bane hits into it to kill a Lancer before it even attacks though. 

[Chronotonic]

That 4 knights is a basic list I have seen at a local tourney the guy does not win the whole thing but he is top three

[WolfOfHorus]

It's not a hard list to fight, just difficult for the some TAC lists.

[Terminus]

Ah, see... Lancers might cause Angron trouble if they went before him, but at Initiative 7, he is comfortably ahead of even their charging initiative of 5.

 

If somehow he didn't kill it (maybe luck with that 5+ invuln or if concussed by the shock lance), the Knight-Lancer would only be hitting him on 5's with what, 5 attacks?

 

I'd still put money on Angron being able to swing enough armor bane hits into it to kill a Lancer before it even attacks though. 

If you're comparing raw stats, sure, but you have to consider that more than likely if someone is bringing a Lancer, that Lancer is the Seneshal/Warlord/Baron/Whatever. Realistically, you're looking at a WS5 BS5 knight with a 4+ invulnerable in close combat. If Angron lets himself get charged by that monster, he's in for a very bad day. The plasma shots should score at least one wound, leaving him concussed for 5 D-slaps before he gets to swing. If the Knight flubs the ranged shots or can't get that concussion off, Angron is still unlikely to smash it in a single round. If it goes to round 2, the Knight is in big big trouble.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

Ah, see... Lancers might cause Angron trouble if they went before him, but at Initiative 7, he is comfortably ahead of even their charging initiative of 5.

 

If somehow he didn't kill it (maybe luck with that 5+ invuln or if concussed by the shock lance), the Knight-Lancer would only be hitting him on 5's with what, 5 attacks?

 

I'd still put money on Angron being able to swing enough armor bane hits into it to kill a Lancer before it even attacks though.

If you're comparing raw stats, sure, but you have to consider that more than likely if someone is bringing a Lancer, that Lancer is the Seneshal/Warlord/Baron/Whatever. Realistically, you're looking at a WS5 BS5 knight with a 4+ invulnerable in close combat. If Angron lets himself get charged by that monster, he's in for a very bad day. The plasma shots should score at least one wound, leaving him concussed for 5 D-slaps before he gets to swing. If the Knight flubs the ranged shots or can't get that concussion off, Angron is still unlikely to smash it in a single round. If it goes to round 2, the Knight is in big big trouble.

That's why you give him 20 ablative wounds ;)

[Slips]

Ah, see... Lancers might cause Angron trouble if they went before him, but at Initiative 7, he is comfortably ahead of even their charging initiative of 5.

If somehow he didn't kill it (maybe luck with that 5+ invuln or if concussed by the shock lance), the Knight-Lancer would only be hitting him on 5's with what, 5 attacks?

I'd still put money on Angron being able to swing enough armor bane hits into it to kill a Lancer before it even attacks though.

If you're comparing raw stats, sure, but you have to consider that more than likely if someone is bringing a Lancer, that Lancer is the Seneshal/Warlord/Baron/Whatever. Realistically, you're looking at a WS5 BS5 knight with a 4+ invulnerable in close combat. If Angron lets himself get charged by that monster, he's in for a very bad day. The plasma shots should score at least one wound, leaving him concussed for 5 D-slaps before he gets to swing. If the Knight flubs the ranged shots or can't get that concussion off, Angron is still unlikely to smash it in a single round. If it goes to round 2, the Knight is in big big trouble.

That's why you give him 20 ablative wounds

No, thats why you put Vulkan in Front of him to Halve the Strength of the Plasma Shots and Tank them on T7 w/ 3++ and Re-rollable IWND

[Flint13]

 

Ah, see... Lancers might cause Angron trouble if they went before him, but at Initiative 7, he is comfortably ahead of even their charging initiative of 5.

 

If somehow he didn't kill it (maybe luck with that 5+ invuln or if concussed by the shock lance), the Knight-Lancer would only be hitting him on 5's with what, 5 attacks?

 

I'd still put money on Angron being able to swing enough armor bane hits into it to kill a Lancer before it even attacks though.

 

If you're comparing raw stats, sure, but you have to consider that more than likely if someone is bringing a Lancer, that Lancer is the Seneshal/Warlord/Baron/Whatever. Realistically, you're looking at a WS5 BS5 knight with a 4+ invulnerable in close combat. If Angron lets himself get charged by that monster, he's in for a very bad day. The plasma shots should score at least one wound, leaving him concussed for 5 D-slaps before he gets to swing. If the Knight flubs the ranged shots or can't get that concussion off, Angron is still unlikely to smash it in a single round. If it goes to round 2, the Knight is in big big trouble.

If the Lancer doesn't get that shock lance concussion to happen, he's going to have a bad day regardless, Seneschal/Lord Scion or no.

 

Absolute best case scenario for the Knight is WS5, charging a concussed Angron. That's still only hitting on 4s with 5 attacks as he still has to "wound" and Angron still gets his invuln. That is far from a guaranteed kill on the Red Angel. If he doesn't concuss Angron, or doesn't kill him in the first round, that's bare minimum of six attacks back, hitting on re-rolled 3s, at str8ap2 and 2d6 armor pen. Admittedly with a 4+ invuln from the shield, but I feel like that's a lot better chance for Angron than the Knight to end their enemy in one round.

 

And that's *if* Angron is concussed. If he charges, that's not even a challenge.

[Slips]

And, not to mention that if we're going with 4 Primarchs vs 4 Knights consisting of:

 

Ferrus

Vulkan

Angron

Horus

 

If you focus Angron, cool, but Ferrus and Vulkan are still swinging their S10 Thunderhammers at Initiative 5. Meaning that, once the Lancer is done with his Charge round and falls to I4, GG & Goodnight. Not To mention Horus' S10 Hits at I1.

 

The only realistic way for Knights to win vs the Primarchs in CC would be to Roll 6's on the D Chart vs all of them.

[depthcharge12]

Actually Guilliman might be one of the better Primarch Avenger Squad guys.

 

He prevents concussion to his unit, has his rerollable ++ save, and has a fist.

[Slips]

Actually Guilliman might be one of the better Primarch Avenger Squad guys.

 

He prevents concussion to his unit, has his rerollable ++ save, and has a fist.

I was about to type in Guilliman until I remembered Horus.

 

It was a toss up, really.

[Flint13]

Ah right, Gulliman has that awesome 4++ reroll once per round.

 

Slips, what made you go with Horus over Gulliman?

[Slips]

Ah right, Gulliman has that awesome 4++ reroll once per round.

 

Slips, what made you go with Horus over Gulliman?

Personal Preference?

 

..Also that Orbital Bombardment, maybe? I honestly dont know LOL

 

Maybe I like him more than Robby G  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Terminus]

The only realistic way for Knights to win vs the Primarchs in CC would be to Roll 6's on the D Chart vs all of them.

You'd only need one 6. :)

[Noserenda]

yeah its the concussive that makes all the difference, having run it through in a dozen games if the lancer gets the drop (And hes pretty nippy) he toe punts Angron :D Not sure about the others as i havent fielded Knights against them.