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A Broken Throne - The Crimson Lions


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#176
MikhalLeNoir

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Shazaaaam!!!

Open for Comissions, just PM me. The Wardens of Light were like golden blades, cutting down their enemies scarring the darkness.

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#177
TheBlindPrimarch

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#178
MikhalLeNoir

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Just greet him from Mikhal and the Wardens of Light

Open for Comissions, just PM me. The Wardens of Light were like golden blades, cutting down their enemies scarring the darkness.

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#179
Chief Captain Redd

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Loving it Sigi!
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#180
Sigismund229

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Expressions of the Third

Ruirech. The name used inside the Third Legion to refer to Hectarion. Can be translated roughly as "High King".

Gachathair. The name used by the Third Legion for the Emperor. Can be translated as Allfather.

The black birds await. An expression often used by Crimson Lions to indicate that death is likely. Examples:

"We are about to fight a primarch. The black birds await"

"Can he survive his injuries?" "The black birds await" the apothacery shrugged.

Until we ride on the wind. A Mycenaean expression similar in usage to the Fenrisian "Until next winter". Example:

"Raktra comes" "Until we ride on the wind brother".

Boar-touched. A Mycenaean expression similar in meaning and usage to "lucky son of a :cuss".

Blood call. A Mycenaean expression to describe something which cannot be refused.

Bassi watch you. An expression similar in meaning and usage to good luck.

Sidhe. The name used by the Mycenaeans for the bloodthirsty, mournful shades that inhabit Sedatus' realm. Used by the Crimson Lions to refer to deamons.

Halladorch. Best translated literally as "dark hall", halladorch is a part of the Mycenaean afterlife, the underworld ruled over by the dark god Sedatus and a place of misery and gloom, inhabited by cowards. Among the Crimson Lions, the name is used to refer to the warp

Edited by Sigismund229, 03 March 2017 - 08:18 PM.

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The IIIrd legion, the Crimson Lions formerly known as the Blood Wolves. http://www.bolterand...-crimson-lions/

 

 

 

 


#181
Sigismund229

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Similarities to Wolves:
-Mostly fight as infantry and prefer to fight up close and personal By this stage, very much a part of the Lions so I can't really change it. Plus I'm a foot slogger to my core and loathe using lots of flyers&tanks with a passion.

-Similar cultural influences This one's too late to change so I'll just need to work around it.

-Gene-curse. The Burden is a completely different beast to the Wulfen so I'm good there(I think). I do need to worry about making it distinct from the Black Rage though.

-Unwavering loyalty Yeah...this one is more problematic.

-More brutal&less restrained pre primarch As is this one.

Those are the similarities I've seen. However, as the CL's creator there may be some I haven't seen due to the CL being my boys. What are they?

Second Question: Which of their differences should I play up? And ideas on how to differentiate them?

Speaking of, I had an idea. In Scars we read that the WS are encouraged to pursue one of the "noble arts". Could be something the Lions do outside of combat, seeing as art forms such as poetry and smithing were BIG things in both the Brythonic Celtic and Anglo-Saxon cultures
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#182
MikhalLeNoir

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Emphasize more on the shield use of the lions. Maybe do make them in cc a bit like spartans in 300 and less like vikings in vikings(^^)

And I know what you mean. I hate tanks as well so the wardens use also infantry en mass except we like jetbikes and jumppacks which gives us flexibility.


Oh well, on the cultural similarities: just look on your lions as a southern remix, especially when it comes to mycene. The blood wolves have rhis jurfik roots but the mycaenaen would have more of a greek root just with gaelic terms.of naming. Or am i on a totally wrong route here?


Well the gene curse might be the toughest. The burden IS very close to the black rage, however the source is different ( did you finally decided where it hails from? I am still in fsvor of the daemin shard influencing the gene material with rage as it would give it more of a meaning instead of: well it is there to provide their primarch super suoer human powers, would also be able to provide more drama)

Unweavering loyalty isn't per se a problem. I mean hec suffered from the daemon shard, he was a beast amd big e partially saved him from it and gave him his free will back. Why nit beeing thankful? He comes from a planet of warriors, where honor is a big thing. So he is tahnkful and his honor demands to not questiin the orders of his liege.


How abput make them more brutal but controlled after the reuniom? So hec give the enemies a chance to swear loyalty to the emperor or withdraw. If they refuse he butchers the armies to little pieces ( no atrocities against civilians except the emperor orders it)

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#183
bluntblade

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I suggest you use more Albyon influence, so the Viking tendencies aren't quite as pronounced

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#184
Doctor Perils

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Perhaps for the burden, rather than make the afflicted a symbol of shame and sorrow, make them honoured to some degree? They still fight in the name of the emperor, despite having to support this burden, so they can become a symbol of strength and inspiration on the battlefield, yet the burden itself still inspires fear as the lions know that it also means the death of the individual





The crimson lions are unwaveringly loyal, that's all right - they just shouldn't believe that they are unique in this like the wolves seem to (rightly or wrongly) and it shouldn't make them perform acts that go against common reason and their specialities for no better reason than pigheadedness.

When the population of jurfik rebel, they go in to destroy them as they maye see it as "their mess" and their duty to clean up - this I don't think is singular to the lions, so don't try and make it look that way: they may be tormented morally about doing it, but others in canonverse have done similar stuff (eg iron warriors) and guilliman is seen as an exception when he doesn't brutally repress a rebellious sub-culture on macragge.
However, when the insurrection starts off, it doesn't seem logical for hectarion to go after kozja directly: after all, kozja is not really one of the worst threats (when compared to icarion). And to be honest, I'm not sure I agree with hec'so assessment that the warbringers are nothing without kozja - their strong hierarchy probably makes them one of the legions most able to do without their primarch in my opinion.

Edited by Lord Thørn, 06 March 2017 - 11:07 AM.

sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#185
Sigismund229

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@Mikhal: Actually Mycenae is more meant to be celtic britain with a bit of the celt-iberians and gauls thrown in there. I'd quite like to keep that theme as we already have two legions inspired by the greeks, the Halycon Wardens and Scions Hospitalier.

As far as the Burden, still working on how. One option I thought of was that when Hec had the shard left inside him, there was  backlash against the CL and that's how the Burden got in. Or it was introduced when Hec was used to stabilize the CL gene-seed.

Thørn: Interesting idea. I actually quite like it.

Pre-primarch

-First of all, to distance them from the Vlka&Angels, a name change for the pre primarch IIIrd. Currently I have two ideas: Skull Takers or Orphans. Do people have preferances or think either works better than the other?

-As a way of explaining why they entered the Great Crusade so late, they'll have a gene-seed crisis. Not quite sure on what scale, whether it should just be the damage the WS and BA sustained or the near total destruction of their gene-seed the EC sustained.

-Not deployed on Luna. Deployed later, as the xenos races and either bringing human-occupied planets into compliance or destroying them if they resisted.' class='bbc ipSeoAcronym'>GC is reaching the edges of the Sol system

-Perhaps such a crisis could be tied into the Burden? So the reason so much of it was destroyed was backlash or some such reasoning?

-They raze Jurfik. They then fill the hole that burning their home left with overzealous loyalty. The number of destroyers gradually increases until they make up 15% of the legion.

^these are the current ideas I have for changing them pre primarch
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The IIIrd legion, the Crimson Lions formerly known as the Blood Wolves. http://www.bolterand...-crimson-lions/

 

 

 

 


#186
Chief Captain Redd

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I won't lie I've always thought of the Lions in combat as more Spartan than Celtic or Nordic.

What if the Blood Wolves early days were actually more civilized, and actually focused on being scholar/artist warriors and glory hounds? They were attached to the VIth Juggernauts at first and served under Daer'dd for a short period before Hectarion was found.
And that's an aspect first Legion Master Cass would have encouraged to Blood Wolves command, and Daer'dd more so.

So maybe the Terran influence on the Legion is a more Spartan one aesthetically; and it's Hec's influence that stokes the firery rage and passion, and helps organize the Terran warriors into a far more organized bunch than they would have been attached to the VIth.
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#187
Kelborn

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Something with "raze"?

 

Crimson Swords? Endbringers?


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#188
Doctor Perils

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@sigi: I like that you are suggesting a name change for the pre-primarch legion, though I think that neither of your suggestions are particularly appropriate for a loyalist legion. Kelborn's suggestions are okay but I think with warbringers existing already and different sword name organisations existing, I don't think they work that well here.
Remember that not every legion needs a prior cognomen :)

@Redd: I'm curious to see why you think of them more as Spartans then as nords or anglo-saxons (both known for their extensive use of shield walls)? Your suggestion of a "more civilised" approach is interesting though
sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#189
MikhalLeNoir

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I saw them also more as spartan/ greek but thst could be because of the name mycaene, the home Agamemnon and the place where the orestie took place, so firgive me if i drew a connection to greek^^.

Although i find it a cool idea that the burden comes from their guilt razing their own men, I think the backlash/influence via the blood daemon is more believable and as mentioned before has more potential for drama as hec will know that HE is responsible for the burden.


As for the name, they don't need one but how about they refer to themselves as "kinslayers" to remind them that they killed their own on terra.

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#190
~Drakzilla~

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Does the pre-primarch legion even need a name? Several of the canon legions' prior names are left to mystery. 



#191
Kelborn

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For example the Wolves. ^^


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#192
simison

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Does the pre-primarch legion even need a name? Several of the canon legions' prior names are left to mystery. 

 

Are they? I was under the impression that every canon legion's cognomen's history is covered. That means either a prior name, a nickname, or no prior name. 

 

Furthermore, I think the loyalty and the emphasis on infantry tactics aren't problems that need to be addressed in of themselves. Likewise, I think any 'barbarian' legion theme is going to overlap a lot with each other since clans has been one of the defining traits of ancient armies. Legions represent the other end of the spectrum, and we're avoiding medieval organizations for post-Insurrection. So, by definition, there are only a limited number of templates available for organizing a legion. 

 

In the end, I think the concepts are fine, except the Burden and the idea of taking up the Executioner mantle from the Wolves. What's really going to sell it is the execution of said ideas. 

 

For the Burden, what I think will be important is what triggers and what its nature is. Is it spiritual/psychic? Is it biological? Or something else? 

 

For the Executioner mantle, I really like the Four Horsemen idea. I may have been playing Darksiders off and on in the past couple of weeks. It's a concept that could help shine light on some of the more less-developed legions. Finally, I think there should be a hole. In the canon version, the Halcyon Wardens becoming Lost opens a wide hole for Chaos infiltration. Here, I think it should be noted that no one is really prepared to step into the Wolves' boots. 


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#193
Sigismund229

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Back from school, can reply properly now.

As far as the theme is concerned. When I first started out with the Lions they were meant to be "slightly more barbaric greeks". As I sought to differentiate them from the various greek themed canon legions that drifted over into being the celt/anglo-saxon mix that they are now but their homeworld's name stuck. It also has some relation to Lions which were a large motif in Mycenaean(real world) culture but not so obvious as Fenris for the Vlka so I kept it and now it's too late to change plus I like it. So, no they are not Spartans. They are celt/anglo-saxons and are, I think, quite visually distinctive from the Vlka. Later I may post up the stuff I sent to drak on their visuals.

P.S. Ancient Celtic not more modern welsh/irish/scotts gaelicism. Important point.

Now Burden: I'd quite like to keep its origins vague. Now it can't, luckily, be pyschic in the same way as Sangi and the Black Rage. However, to have it built in to their gene-seed seems a bit...meh as an origin. I had two main ideas for its origin:

1. An inescapable side effect of their overactive Biscopea and Ossmodula. In order to increase muscle mass, I guess that those organs increase testostarone or some such thing. The Burden is a side effect of that, a sudden spike in hormone levels that causes hyper aggression, the brain to backfire and the body to start consuming itself in an effort to keep function at that increased capacity.

2. When Ma'annan was banished, he cursed Hec's entire bloodline, not just Hec himself. Due to warp shenanigans, this curse reaches back to when the IIIrd was being created and destroys a large amount of their gene-seed and blighting the rest=>resulting in the Burden.

 

EDIT: Oh and on the names thing. I could say that they never adopted an official name and they were just given a series of nicknames before Hec was discovered. 


Edited by Sigismund229, 06 March 2017 - 05:27 PM.

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#194
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@simison: Only 7 of the canon legions have explicitly stated original names. 8 if you include the "Ghost Legion" nickname of the rumored XXth Legion. 



#195
Skalpynock

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@simison: Only 7 of the canon legions have explicitly stated original names. 8 if you include the "Ghost Legion" nickname of the rumored XXth Legion.


I count 12. Primaris Angelus Mortis, Emperor's Children, Sons of Thule, Imperial Fists, Storm Walkers, War Hounds, Warborn, Dusk Raiders, Thousand Sons, Luna Wolves, Imperial Heralds, Pale Nomads.

#196
simison

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@simison: Only 7 of the canon legions have explicitly stated original names. 8 if you include the "Ghost Legion" nickname of the rumored XXth Legion. 

 

My point was that there is no mystery regarding a legion's prior name. Either they had one, a nickname, or they didn't have one. In all three cases, there's no mystery. A legion doesn't have to have more than one name. 


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#197
Kelborn

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As I've recently finished the third season of Vikings, I'm curious of how much of Ragnar did you used for Hec. Or Rollo. Or even Floki? ;)


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#198
Sigismund229

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Not all that much of any of them actually, at least not consciously. Ragnar in the Fourth Season and his attitude towards Rollo though is very similar to how Hec would feel about Icarion.

Although one of Hec's advisors, Traghaias Two-blade, is essentialy Floki in space marine form.
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#199
Kelborn

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Sounds good to me. Especially Traghaias, as Floki is one of the weirdest, yet coolest characters out their.

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#200
bluntblade

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Can I suggest a name change for the Codicii? It doesn't as a word really encapsulate what they're about, to me, and it's close to Codicier, which risks confusion. I suggest we bastardise a word that has stronger connotations with free spirits, etc.
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