jbaeza94 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Hey guys, i was building a list for mondays game, most likely facing off against necrons + dark eldar vs me and my SW buddy, 1800 pts each. While building my list, i noticed that it is less expensive to take a cm in tda than aa. although it is only a 5 point difference. I am going to be running a lions blade, Demi Company Company Master, relic blade (storm bolter with TDA, bolter for AA) 5 Assault, Jump Pack, Vet Sgt with Axe. 5 Dev, 2 Las, 2 ML, Boltgun on Sgt 10 Tac Plasma Pun, Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma (should I opt for a heavy bolter instead on any of these?) 10 Tac Plasma Pun, Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma 10 Tac Plasma Pun, Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma Inner Circle TDA Librarian Force Axe, ML2, Storm Bolter Deathwing Redemption Force Int Chap TDA Storm Bolter Crozius 5 Deathwing Assault cannon, 1 Lighting Claw, 1 Chain Fist (Chaps goes here) 5 Deathwing Plasma Cannon, Power Sword, 1 Chain Fist (Libby goes here) Ven Dread Drop Pod, Assault Cannon I do have some wiggle room with modeling so I can repurpose a little but not completely change my army. I have models for all my IC's so I can change their armor. The issue I seem to face also is where do I put in CM? do I TDA with the Libby Squad? or AA with one of the tacs? they both provide the same save, so this is why its kind of tough for me to find the benefits to one vs the other. also, can the Libby/CM in TDA join a squad of DW prior to game and deep strike with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 The big differences for your IC are: Terminator armour: Relentless, Deep Strike, twin-linked on 1st turn if you deep strike. Artificer armour: Can do Sweeping Advances. So, the only times when you need terminator armour are if your character makes a lot of use of Rapid Fire weapons (none of our characters can take Heavy weapons), which is unlikely, with only really the combi-plasma or combi-grav gaining much from this; or if you plan to deep strike your character. Artificer armour on the other hand can sweeping advance, which can be a game-winner. Most of our HQs are much more melee-oriented than shooty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 That makes sense. twin linked is nice but sweeping advances is nicer. he would make sense being in a tac squad that pushes to opponents table edge, that way he gets in melee with hard targets, while my chap squad could go warlord hunting and the hardest targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simiel Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Don't forget in TDA we also loose our Assault Grenades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Don't forget in TDA we also loose our Assault Grenades. yes but if you assault from a raider that hardly matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I think it depends on who you are running him with. If it's someone in TDA then he needs TDA. I like Deathwing Knights as a escort or Assault Squads then AA or the Assault Squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 So would giving him AA and a giving a jump pack and throwing him with the assault squad be viable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 If you are facing Necrons + Dark Eldar, yes, equip the Company Master with artificer armor + jump pack and send him after the lower Initiative Necrons so the ability to Sweeping advance + wipe out units is best made use of. The main job of the rest of your force is to pick apart the Dark Eldar vehicles and ground their Infantry. Once that happens, they are bolter fodder, which is bad news when facing a Lion's Blade. If your Company Master won't have an AP 2 close combat weapon, make sure you have at least one eviscerator in the Assault Squad, just in case you come up against something with a 2+ save. Something like a Necron Lord with a 2+ save can tarpit the whole unit, but it can be dragged down more easily by the attacks of the regular unit members than by a Company Master with an AP 3 weapon. The eviscerator on a basic assault marine is better than a sergent with a powerf fist/thunder hammer in one particular way- it is hidden in the unit and can't be taken out in a challenge like a 1 wound sgt. can be. I had a unit of Deathwing Knights + Belial hit a unit of Necrons with a Necron Lord in it. Unpredictably, the regular Necrons got pasted, but I began a challenge with Belial where his fleshbane AP *3* sword wounded the Necron Lord plenty, but couldn't put him down due to the Necron Lord's 2+ save. The Necrons didn't break that first assult phase, and so they were locked up watching Belial be ineffectual for another three Assault Phases instead of being able to annihilate other nearby Necron units (which were annoyingly free to move around very close by because Belial couldn't put down the Necron Lord). Also, an eviscerator will be very useful against any Necron vehicles, which Necron players seem to like fielding quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 For ap2 I have a power axe on a vet sgt, and I see why the evicerator would be good but I don't have one, my models are a bit older, and also, I don't have the points to stick it in, unless I dropped some war gear on my tacs, which isn't really a big deal. Maybe a combiplasma. However if I was fighting anything ap2, wouldn't my DW be better situated with all those powerfist? I have however experience a similar event as you. I was facing a necron lord with a squad of storm shield like melee necrons (don't know their names). My DW got tons of wounds but that 3++ and reanimation protocol was gnarly, also my chaps challenged the Lord, won eventually after 5 assault fazes, almost everything stopped by 2+. It was epic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Don't forget in TDA we also loose our Assault Grenades. yes but if you assault from a raider that hardly matters Correction...if you assault from a crusader or a redeemer, that is...not every land raider has frag assault launchers! So would giving him AA and a giving a jump pack and throwing him with the assault squad be viable? Absolutely! That's what I'm doing...AA, jump pack, and mace (digital weapons when points allow), going with the assault squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 I played a game today, I have to say I was pretty impressed with the results of the CM and the assault squad. the 12 s4 attacks, 4 s5 ap2 and 4s6 ap3 on the charge were phenomenal. killed 6 necron warriors, then got a sweeping advance, getting me 2 victory points, one for destroying the unit and one for taking objective 3. the speed helped them move around quickly and not get into too much trouble with the lychguard. overall, I think I know how I would like to field my cm from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 ...and, while that does include a power axe, it's only 6 models, not counting the hammer of wrath and pistol attacks. Imagine a full squad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Dang it! i totally forgot about hammer of wrath! in a full that would be 38 s4 hits plus the 4 s5 ap2 and 4 s6 ap3. not bad at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Do dark angel chapter masters also get orbital strike? If so tda relentless essentially turns it into an assault shooting attack allowing you to move drop pie plate and assault in one turn... If no orbital bombardment then wth, y'all are a fleet based chapter get with the program gw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 In my mind there are few conditions you'd run TDA: CM is leading a Deathwing Detachment CM is ONLY being equipping TDA, no relics of caliban, no relic blade (super budget option) You plan on bringing a TH/SS You modeled one from the Legion Praetor clampack from FW like me and he looks too good NOT to field like that. Right now TDA I believe has some disadvantages and it's better to run Artificer unless you're dead set on running TDA. You lose an attack and you lose your assault grenades which are 2 very big things for your CM. The CM you want to have as many attacks as possible and as early as possible, unless of course you're planning on equipping a thunder hammer (even though you can still bring one when not equipped with TDA). I think TDA is best applied to a Librarian who has no access to a 2+ or invuln save otherwise (though the conversion field is an option by itself), and somewhat to a Chaplain who also doesn't have access to the 2+, or Deep Strike capabilities. I think if you are running a Lion's Blade, as Artificer+Jump Infantry+Shroud CM is a great starting point. From there you've got options for a TH/SS or Mace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The only point I would disagree with is the Relic Blade for the CM. I think this is a very reliable option. Most CM's in TDA have a stormbolter or combi weapon anyway. They wont get the extra attack bonus anyway so a relic blade and Storm Shield will eat up a bunch. Whoever you have him with is probably going to have either a power fist or be able to smite so AP2 should be covered if he is in TDA. I honestly run him either with a JP and AA attached to an assault squad (full ten with plasma pistols, I know expensive) or in the TDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The only point I would disagree with is the Relic Blade for the CM. I think this is a very reliable option. Most CM's in TDA have a stormbolter or combi weapon anyway. They wont get the extra attack bonus anyway so a relic blade and Storm Shield will eat up a bunch. Whoever you have him with is probably going to have either a power fist or be able to smite so AP2 should be covered if he is in TDA. I honestly run him either with a JP and AA attached to an assault squad (full ten with plasma pistols, I know expensive) or in the TDA. Well that's sort of my thing with the Relic Blade, if you're going to pay for that and lose your attack bonus, I say pay the extra for a Mace that extra +1s, Blind and Concussive. TDA+Relic vs AA+Mace is a 10 point difference and you're getting to keep your grenades and that attack. The Storm Shield obviously changes things though. I think it really matters where you may want points elsewhere in your army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I will give you the Mace of Redemption trumps everything pretty much. I don't know for whatever reason I always put my Mace on a Int. Chappy and let him smite our Fallen Emperors foes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'm not sure the shield is worth it just to go from a 4++ to a 3++. But I can see why people might like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 I assume people would take it for the t5 with knights. Personally I would run an I chaplain with mace of redemption in a squad of knights simply for zealot,that combined with smite mode can be very deadly. Sadly I don't have have enough points for that in this list. I have some sweet cataphractii deathwing knights too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Erm...nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I assume people would take it for the t5 with knights. Personally I would run an I chaplain with mace of redemption in a squad of knights simply for zealot,that combined with smite mode can be very deadly. Sadly I don't have have enough points for that in this list. I have some sweet cataphractii deathwing knights too Just be careful when issuing challenges with this captain. A wily opponent will position his challenge accepter such that when you move the challenger into base contact with the challengee, you are suddenly only in base to base contact with one knight, losing your +1T. It's safe to accept challenges, since you don't move, the challenger does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 T5 with knights is a useful bonus, and can help them and the Company Master weather the charge, but I tend to find that my lovely shield-wall gets somewhat scattered and broken up after the initial clash. So, I'm not sure I would pay for a storm shield just for that. I'd sooner have the extra attack from mace and bolt pistol, usually. And I'm still not sure he adds all that much to DW Knights. If I'm bringing the Company Master, I am probably bringing Lion's Blade, which means I probably don't have points for Knights. If I'm building a list around Knights, it's probably a Deathwing/Ravenwing list with Sammael (who brings much more to DW Knights than a Company Master). There are no absolutes in 40K, though. :) You can make almost anything work, if you get enough experience with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 If I'm building a list around Knights, it's probably a Deathwing/Ravenwing list with Sammael (who brings much more to DW Knights than a Company Master) What does Sammael bring to the Knights? I'm very curious because i really like his model and would like to field him one day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngeal Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Deathwing knights have 1 huge problem: they land, and then they chase stuff around but are often too slow to catch it. Sammael does a lot to solve that with his warlord trait. Also he can be positioned to take the AP2 fire for them by jinking. A rerollable 3+ is far better than their 3+ invulnerable save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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