A couple of questions from a beginner

[Steve86]

Hello B&C!i picked up the Dark Vengeance set and the Dark Angels codex in august and have already decided on a list but would like some advice on a couple of things.

 

Question 1: has anyone run 4+ venerable dreadnaughts in a Deathwing strike force?

 

Question 2A: any advise on running an amry with all drop pods as dedicated transport?

 

Question 2B: deathwind or storm bolter for drop pods?

 

Feel free to throw links at me i sometimes overlook good threads ive been lurking a while but havent found any decent input by DA players.

Im concentrating on a RWSF+DWSF,DWSF+RWAS,RWSF+DWRF army with plans to get a Ravenwing Support Squadron and finish up with a full battle company. I look foward to and appreciate all advise from the Veterans of the mighty 1st Legion

[Jazzhands]

Hello and welcome to the unforgiven.

 

Though I can't really help to answer any of your questions i did want to greet you. You have joined the dark angels at a pretty good time.

 

Enjoy yourself and don't worry. I'm sure some of the smart cookies will be along shortly with answers

[Steve86]

Thanks for the greetings :) it was suggested to me to go with the vanilla marines or dark angels because of the resent codex release.

[Jazzhands]

Well with the dv set you get a great start. Not sure how many of those i have now!

 

I can tell you that now that dreadnoughts have four base attacks they are much better than they were and can really do some damage in cc.

 

I would think that if you were looking at going all drop pod then the double core lion's blade detachment is the way forward. Free drop pods!

 

I only play one drop pod and use the storm bolter as i don't like blasts scattering back on my squad.

 

Make sure you find a copy of the librarius conclave dataslate. Its not in the codex but still usable and lots of fun in a drop pod

[Knight Master Eladric]

A quick note on pods. It's much better to bring odd numbers. This takes advantage of the drop pod assault rule's "half rounded up" to maximize your alpha strike. Drop pods are pretty great with the new codex you can be more aggressive without worrying as much about getting assaulted due to the boosted over watch. Free pods from fielding the battle company makes for a ton of Obj Sec units. If you are podding dreadnoughts though I'd be sure to kit them out for close range, a couple with Melta to pop behind armor, a few with assault cannons and heavy flamers.

Not much experience with the deathwind here but I'd say bolter first unless the pod is empty as the odd # filler.

[IndigoJack]

Hello B&C!i picked up the Dark Vengeance set and the Dark Angels codex in august and have already decided on a list but would like some advice on a couple of things.

 

Question 1: has anyone run 4+ venerable dreadnaughts in a Deathwing strike force?

I have not, but I don't see this as being a terrible idea. Although, I generally prefer my drop pods in odd numbers, so more than half show up turn one.

 

Question 2A: any advise on running an amry with all drop pods as dedicated transport?

Other than the odd number thing mentioned above, placing them near an objective is often a good idea, because that means that your opponent not only has to deal with the unit inside, but also the drop pod holding the objective. On a tangent, combat squadding is also a good idea, as you're essentially getting 3 units (drop pod, two combat squads inside) for each FOC slot (or demi-company slot). This can really up your unit saturation turn one, and give you a decent foothold in the game.

 

Also, large amounts of drop pods mean you can null deploy (place no units on the board during deloyment) and essentially counter-deploy to your opponent even if you deploy first. This leads to fun shenanigans like winning the roll and choosing to deploy first, deploy nothing, then elect to go second. This can effectively remove a whole round of shooting from your opponent and increasing your odds of surviving to end-game.

 

Question 2B: deathwind or storm bolter for drop pods?

I have never seen deathwind missile launchers accomplish anything. This is of course anecdotal, but I generally see them as a waste of points. If the range was longer than 12" it might be worth it, but with such a short range you're unlikely to want to fire it the turn you arrive (to avoid the risk of hurting your own guys) and in subsequent turns your opponent is either going to stay out of range, or simply be durable enough to not care. The only upgrade that I find useful on drop pods is a locator beacon.

 

Feel free to throw links at me i sometimes overlook good threads ive been lurking a while but havent found any decent input by DA players.

Im concentrating on a RWSF+DWSF,DWSF+RWAS,RWSF+DWRF army with plans to get a Ravenwing Support Squadron and finish up with a full battle company. I look foward to and appreciate all advise from the Veterans of the mighty 1st Legion

I've run both the RWSF+DWSF and RWAF+DWSF combo and both have been a lot fun. The added durability of bikes now means that the they are much more likely to survive to guide the DW in. I hope this helps and good luck on your endeavors!

[Steve86]

 

Hello B&C!i picked up the Dark Vengeance set and the Dark Angels codex in august and have already decided on a list but would like some advice on a couple of things.

 

Question 1: has anyone run 4+ venerable dreadnaughts in a Deathwing strike force?

I have not, but I don't see this as being a terrible idea. Although, I generally prefer my drop pods in odd numbers, so more than half show up turn one.

 

Question 2A: any advise on running an amry with all drop pods as dedicated transport?

Other than the odd number thing mentioned above, placing them near an objective is often a good idea, because that means that your opponent not only has to deal with the unit inside, but also the drop pod holding the objective. On a tangent, combat squadding is also a good idea, as you're essentially getting 3 units (drop pod, two combat squads inside) for each FOC slot (or demi-company slot). This can really up your unit saturation turn one, and give you a decent foothold in the game.

 

Also, large amounts of drop pods mean you can null deploy (place no units on the board during deloyment) and essentially counter-deploy to your opponent even if you deploy first. This leads to fun shenanigans like winning the roll and choosing to deploy first, deploy nothing, then elect to go second. This can effectively remove a whole round of shooting from your opponent and increasing your odds of surviving to end-game.

 

Question 2B: deathwind or storm bolter for drop pods?

I have never seen deathwind missile launchers accomplish anything. This is of course anecdotal, but I generally see them as a waste of points. If the range was longer than 12" it might be worth it, but with such a short range you're unlikely to want to fire it the turn you arrive (to avoid the risk of hurting your own guys) and in subsequent turns your opponent is either going to stay out of range, or simply be durable enough to not care. The only upgrade that I find useful on drop pods is a locator beacon.

 

Feel free to throw links at me i sometimes overlook good threads ive been lurking a while but havent found any decent input by DA players.

Im concentrating on a RWSF+DWSF,DWSF+RWAS,RWSF+DWRF army with plans to get a Ravenwing Support Squadron and finish up with a full battle company. I look foward to and appreciate all advise from the Veterans of the mighty 1st Legion

I've run both the RWSF+DWSF and RWAF+DWSF combo and both have been a lot fun. The added durability of bikes now means that the they are much more likely to survive to guide the DW in. I hope this helps and good luck on your endeavors!

[Steve86]

Sorry about that still learning the site lol. But the point about odd pods i did notice straight up and everything else is great thanks. It did seem that the deathwind launchers were lacking.

 

@jazzhands it seems everyone gets multiple DV sets and i found a video link in one thread that explained how to use that to fill up a demi-company for a low cost

[Jazzhands]

Yeah everyone does and they are pretty easy to convert despite their push together nature.

 

With a bit of work they have helped to bulk out my deathwing and ravenwing

[Rodiger]

A note with Dreadnoughts. What do you want to use them for? Dealing with infantry? Armour? A mix?

 

I would suggest if you wanted to run multiple Dreadnoughts, firstly use normal Dreadnoughts over Venerable Dreadnoughts and secondly run them in squadron of 3 over 4 Venerable Dreadnoughts in individual Drop Pods. There are many reasons for this. In the last codex the Venerable Dreadnought was without a doubt much better than the normal one, I use to take one with a Missile Launcher and Las Cannon and he was great a taking out armour with his 2+ re roll-able to hit. Now with the new Codex if he is taken with the Deathwing he has to have a Drop Pod and this puts him in at 160 base and with upgrades to around 180 points for one Dreadnought.

 

Now why you should take normal Dreadnoughts in a Squadron. Take them in a Demi Company in the Lions Blade, the reason for this is they are Objective Secured and Overwatch at full Ballistic Skill, Venerable Dreadnoughts cannot be Objective Secured and the only one that can have Overwatch at full Ballistic Skill is in the Deathwing Redemption Force. Taken any other way they Overwatch at Ballistic Skill 2. I kit them out with Assault Cannons and Powerfists with Heavy Flamers, this comes in at 120 points per Dreadnought, you have lost hitting on 2’s and needing 3’s to hit in close combat but being in a Squadron of three will counter these effects. So what this unit gets you is 12 Strength 6 Rending Shots, 3 Template Strength 5 hits, then 15 Strength 10 Powerfist attacks on the charge at Initiative. Remember it Overwatches at full Ballistic Skill so you get 12 Assault Cannon shots again, and 3, D3 Strength 5 shots, 12 Powerfist attacks at Initiative if it is charged. It also has 9 Hull Point between it. It can deal with Infantry and it can deal with Armour. This unit is 360 points, 3 Venerable Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods come in at 480 base without upgrades, they cannot be in a Squadron unless they are taken through a CAD, they are not Objective Secured and only one of them can Overwatch at Full Ballistic Skill. You want to run 4 Dreadnoughts so you could run 3 in the fashion above and 1 as a Venerable in a Drop Pod. You do lose them being right in your opponents face turn one, but they will not be wasted starting in your deployment zone as the game goes on.

 

This is just my opinion but Dreadnoughts run the way above are seriously good, and they have done much more damage than my Imperial Knight ever has. 

[Steve86]

A note with Dreadnoughts. What do you want to use them for? Dealing with infantry? Armour? A mix?

 

I would suggest if you wanted to run multiple Dreadnoughts, firstly use normal Dreadnoughts over Venerable Dreadnoughts and secondly run them in squadron of 3 over 4 Venerable Dreadnoughts in individual Drop Pods. There are many reasons for this. In the last codex the Venerable Dreadnought was without a doubt much better than the normal one, I use to take one with a Missile Launcher and Las Cannon and he was great a taking out armour with his 2+ re roll-able to hit. Now with the new Codex if he is taken with the Deathwing he has to have a Drop Pod and this puts him in at 160 base and with upgrades to around 180 points for one Dreadnought.

 

Now why you should take normal Dreadnoughts in a Squadron. Take them in a Demi Company in the Lions Blade, the reason for this is they are Objective Secured and Overwatch at full Ballistic Skill, Venerable Dreadnoughts cannot be Objective Secured and the only one that can have Overwatch at full Ballistic Skill is in the Deathwing Redemption Force. Taken any other way they Overwatch at Ballistic Skill 2. I kit them out with Assault Cannons and Powerfists with Heavy Flamers, this comes in at 120 points per Dreadnought, you have lost hitting on 2’s and needing 3’s to hit in close combat but being in a Squadron of three will counter these effects. So what this unit gets you is 12 Strength 6 Rending Shots, 3 Template Strength 5 hits, then 15 Strength 10 Powerfist attacks on the charge at Initiative. Remember it Overwatches at full Ballistic Skill so you get 12 Assault Cannon shots again, and 3, D3 Strength 5 shots, 12 Powerfist attacks at Initiative if it is charged. It also has 9 Hull Point between it. It can deal with Infantry and it can deal with Armour. This unit is 360 points, 3 Venerable Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods come in at 480 base without upgrades, they cannot be in a Squadron unless they are taken through a CAD, they are not Objective Secured and only one of them can Overwatch at Full Ballistic Skill. You want to run 4 Dreadnoughts so you could run 3 in the fashion above and 1 as a Venerable in a Drop Pod. You do lose them being right in your opponents face turn one, but they will not be wasted starting in your deployment zone as the game goes on.

 

This is just my opinion but Dreadnoughts run the way above are seriously good, and they have done much more damage than my Imperial Knight ever has.

Well your opinion is very insightful and appreciated. I was gonna start with missiles and lascanon loadout and put my first couple in the back sending fire down range then after i get towards the numbers i really want to run i was gonna fill up the deathwing strike force with venerables (costly i know) and use a Ravenwing strike force with sam on vorvex to make it ran dreads all over the table with 2 CC loadouts and the rest missiles and lascanon.

[Rodiger]

Unfortunately if you take the Deathwing Strike Force every Dreadnought has to be in a Drop Pod. If you want them to sit at the back and provide long range fire there is not much point Drop Podding them into you own Deployment Zone. So if you want to do this the best way would be to take a Combined Arms Detachment. This way they can start in your Deployment Zone and they don't have to take a Drop Pod.

 

I use to like the Las Cannon Missile Launcher load out, but now they have been upgraded to 4 attacks base it feels like a waste not to use the attacks. It is quite common for them to get charged so having the Powerfist is very useful.

 

If you run them from the CAD then taking them individually and as a Squadron each have positives and negatives. Individually you can target seperate units, but you use up an Elite slot for each one. In a Squadron you have to target the same unit but you only use one Elite slot. Personally I would use them in the Squadron with Las Cannons and Powerfists, the Missile Launcher never really does that much in my experience.

 

I hope this helps.

[Steve86]

I knew about that. Im not too far off from having the minimum for a dwsf/dwrf with a rwsf/rwas. I suppose i should get that far before going too crazy.

[Hidicul]

Just because you gave them a drop pod doesn't mean they can't start on the table. A squad doesn't have to start the game embarked on their transport, they're just the only ones that can start on them. If you have 5 drop pods and 2 belong to dreadnoughts you start on the table, that means that the three that come on hold your other forces which allows you to shoot with your entire army minus 2 storm bolters on turn one.

[Steve86]

So you can purchase a dedicated transport but still start the dread on the table and drop the pod anywhere as a improvised stationary gun?

[Hidicul]

All drop pods must start in reserve, and now that pods are fast attack choices you can even buy an empty one

[Steve86]

Sounds like a waste of a pod unless you drop a couple with deathwind launchers into the enemy ranks

[Hidicul]

Sounds like a waste of a pod unless you drop a couple with deathwind launchers into the enemy ranks

Or you use it to bottle neck your opponent to slow them down or block them.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Sounds like a waste of a pod unless you drop a couple with deathwind launchers into the enemy ranks

 

Rules for Drop podding say that you have to pod half, rounding up. Imagine you only have 2 pod units to deep strike in. For an extra 35 points, you can pod those 2 units in first turn instead of only one, because you have 3 instead of 2.

[Steve86]

I see what your saying. Thats a good idea never thought of that but i only just started good thing to keep in mind thanks