EVENT - The Battle of the Forge

[MikhalLeNoir]

Hey, why ist my City burning?

[Sigismund229]

It's one of thz cities I wrecked using the site Slips put the link for. The others being Bruxelles, Paris and London.

[Chief Captain Redd]

Do we know what the strengths of the traitors will be yet?

[Skalpynock]

No definitive numbers, but on my brainstorming sheet I put these:

 

Legiones Astartes

-50 000 Warbringers (1st, 4th, 8th, 9th [Chapter-equivalent])

-2500 Lightning Bearers

 

Exertus Imperialis - Novadeca Strelae

-125 000 000 Darzalan Cossacks

-75 000 000 Yurasil Chem-Wolves

-75 000 000 Kzarny Rad-Walkers

-45 000 000 Zalmoxite Cataphracts

Totalling 320 million humans

 

Note that this is without knowing the Iron Bears forces present.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Skalpynock

[Doctor Perils]

No definitive numbers, but on my brainstorming sheet I put these:

 

Legiones Astartes

-50 000 Warbringers (1st, 4th, 8th, 9th [Chapter-equivalent])

-2500 Lightning Bearers

 

Exertus Imperialis - Novadeca Strelae

-125 000 000 Darzalan Cossacks

-75 000 000 Yurasil Chem-Wolves

-75 000 000 Kzarny Rad-Walkers

-45 000 000 Zalmoxite Cataphracts

Totalling 320 million humans

 

Note that this is without knowing the Iron Bears forces present.

Chapter equivalent ? Each of those is worth ten chapters ! Ten thousand marines per chapter is a lot of ceramite and augmented flesh ! I'd suggest you come up with a name for these "grand chapters" like Field Army or Corps, then keep Chapter at around a thousand marines.

 

Have you got any more information on the Warbringers ? Their fluff seems to be dispersed, so it would be nice to see it all grouped together in the Warbringers post

 

I like the names of your Auxilia regiments I'm gessing the cataphracts are heavy cavalry/motorised cavalry ? What are the other specialities ?

[Demus Ragnok]

 

No definitive numbers, but on my brainstorming sheet I put these:

 

Legiones Astartes

-50 000 Warbringers (1st, 4th, 8th, 9th [Chapter-equivalent])

-2500 Lightning Bearers

 

Exertus Imperialis - Novadeca Strelae

-125 000 000 Darzalan Cossacks

-75 000 000 Yurasil Chem-Wolves

-75 000 000 Kzarny Rad-Walkers

-45 000 000 Zalmoxite Cataphracts

Totalling 320 million humans

 

Note that this is without knowing the Iron Bears forces present.

 

Chapter equivalent ? Each of those is worth ten chapters ! Ten thousand marines per chapter is a lot of ceramite and augmented flesh ! I'd suggest you come up with a name for these "grand chapters" like Field Army or Corps, then keep Chapter at around a thousand marines.

 

Have you got any more information on the Warbringers ? Their fluff seems to be dispersed, so it would be nice to see it all grouped together in the Warbringers post :)

 

I like the names of your Auxilia regiments :) I'm gessing the cataphracts are heavy cavalry/motorised cavalry ? What are the other specialities ?

The Ultramarines had 10000 man legion chapters so that's not without precedent. Edited September 11, 2015 by Demus Ragnok

[Sigismund229]

For the Imperial Garrison(the official garrison, not counting the Iron Bears) I was thinking of the following in terms of numbers

 

Astartes:

4000 Halycon Wardens. 

 

Imperial Army:

300 million Voltine Hussars

70 million Borrydok Highlanders

240,000 tanks of the Karrytine Heavy armour

67 million Korrikan Steam Troopers

58 million Horritan Gunners

39 million Grundun Rifles

25 million Volpine Guards

80,000 tanks of the Jurrakan Cavaliers. 

559 million men of the Imperial Army and 320,000 tanks, can be augmented by Iyacrax Workers Militia. 

 

 

I'll post a rough idea of mechanicum forces once I've familiarized myself with their organization. 

[Skalpynock]

 

Chapter equivalent ? Each of those is worth ten chapters ! Ten thousand marines per chapter is a lot of ceramite and augmented flesh ! I'd suggest you come up with a name for these "grand chapters" like Field Army or Corps, then keep Chapter at around a thousand marines.

 

Have you got any more information on the Warbringers ? Their fluff seems to be dispersed, so it would be nice to see it all grouped together in the Warbringers post

 

I like the names of your Auxilia regiments I'm gessing the cataphracts are heavy cavalry/motorised cavalry ? What are the other specialities ?

 

The Cataphracts are meant to be heavy-armor specialists, both in the infantry and vehicle meanings (hailing from the last enclave of Zalmoxis, detailed here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312943-brotherhood-of-the-lost-the-warbringers/?p=4166159 ).

The Rad-Walkers are adepts at unstable terrain assault (mopping up after vir- or gas-bombings).

The Cossacks are generalists, but damn efficient at it. Mostly though, they seem to favor human waves as a display of power (picture Napoleonic warfare).

The Chem-Wolves are close warfare specialists, using a variety of combat drugs to make themselves either duelists with perfect self-control, or frenzied berzerkers.

 

Other regiments of the Strelan New Dozen (rendered above as Novadeca) include the Chelo Revenants, the Arkanav Voltigeurs, and the Zharisch Hussars, though they were not present in accountable numbers at the Battle of the Forge. Think of them as Kozja's equivalent of the Terran unification Old Hundred.

[Sigismund229]

The Darzalan cossacks sound a lot like how I imagined the Voltine Hussars. This is going to be interesting

[Skalpynock]

The Darzalan cossacks sound a lot like how I imagined the Voltine Hussars. This is going to be interesting

Napoleonic regiments, scorched-earth tactics, and a Primarch who is more or less a Tsar? I think this battle is just a vast Sabaton reference.

[Sigismund229]

Well I was listening to Sabaton when I wrote the origunal fluff for it....

[Doctor Perils]

 

 

Chapter equivalent ? Each of those is worth ten chapters ! Ten thousand marines per chapter is a lot of ceramite and augmented flesh ! I'd suggest you come up with a name for these "grand chapters" like Field Army or Corps, then keep Chapter at around a thousand marines.

 

Have you got any more information on the Warbringers ? Their fluff seems to be dispersed, so it would be nice to see it all grouped together in the Warbringers post

 

I like the names of your Auxilia regiments I'm gessing the cataphracts are heavy cavalry/motorised cavalry ? What are the other specialities ?

 

The Cataphracts are meant to be heavy-armor specialists, both in the infantry and vehicle meanings (hailing from the last enclave of Zalmoxis, detailed here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312943-brotherhood-of-the-lost-the-warbringers/?p=4166159 ).

The Rad-Walkers are adepts at unstable terrain assault (mopping up after vir- or gas-bombings).

The Cossacks are generalists, but damn efficient at it. Mostly though, they seem to favor human waves as a display of power (picture Napoleonic warfare).

The Chem-Wolves are close warfare specialists, using a variety of combat drugs to make themselves either duelists with perfect self-control, or frenzied berzerkers.

 

Other regiments of the Strelan New Dozen (rendered above as Novadeca) include the Chelo Revenants, the Arkanav Voltigeurs, and the Zharisch Hussars, though they were not present in accountable numbers at the Battle of the Forge. Think of them as Kozja's equivalent of the Terran unification Old Hundred.

 

 

This is very nice  (Wouldn't it be Nova-dodeca? I know it doesn't sound as nice but if you want a dozen... Also, have you thought about taken a thirteenth "regiment" after your fall to chaos ? it would have a sort of nice symobology)

[Chief Captain Redd]

For the Bears it'll would be the surviving brothers of the 3rd at about 15-17k well less than half of their original number plus elements of the

Totem Guard≈750

1st≈2000

2nd≈3500

5th≈1000

 

This is the third though they do have the highest number of tanks/mobile artillery/super heavies in the legion.

 

The question I have though is the Iron Bears typically travel with a lot of support in Knight Houses, Titan Legions, Daughters of Daer'dd, Abhuman Auxilia, and Demiurge/Mechanicum support. And I wanted to see if these numbers seemed off or too much.

 

2 Knight Houses (63 knights)

1 Titan Legio (1 Imperator, 3 Warlords, 6 Reavers, 14 Warhounds)

90,000 Daughters of Daer'dd.

35,000 Ogryn auxiliaries.

15,000 Ratlings auxiliaries.

45,000 various abhuman auxiliaries.

 

I'm not sure on Demiurge and Mechanicum numbers though. I was thinking 11 to 15 Demiurge clans numbering less than a thousand each. And while I'm familiar with the structure and units of the Mechanicum I've no idea of operational numbers for Skitarii and Thallax and the like.

[Skalpynock]

I should have been an old man. I should have been dead several times by now. But they denied my right to do so. My body seems still in its prime, strong and healthy. My reflexes are smooth, to anyone I would be a paragon of humanity. I am not. This body is rotting from within, the Wolf is taking away our ability to think, the Warrior our ability to feel. Our arms are aching, constantly pumped with stims, our skin numb from the painkillers. They do not see this war like we do. To them this is another conquest, against corruption they say. They care not when they walk over our corpses, we are expandable plebeians to them. They haven't fought in the tunnels, they haven't known the horrors we knew down there. They haven't had to wage war in a collapsing tower. And most importantly, they haven't understood that they are wrong. We are fighting on the wrong side. The First is corrupt, not the Imperium. Ah, at least I feel like I won't have to survive this battle.

||Extract from censor-log of Discipline Officer Yestevan Serotev, Yuracil Chem-Wolves||

 

12 would be better indeed, but I don't know of a word for 12 that sounds as simple as dozen. Plus it removes the 10-factor with the Old Hundred. Also, the Warbringers and their armies do not fall to chaos, forming the Revolutionary faction instead, though the 13th ""regiment"" could be an experiment gone awry.

[Sigismund229]

Trooper Ignace of the Voltine Hussars checked his lasrifles mechanisms. When the traitors landed he wouldn't have time for such things, so it was best to do it now. 19 years in the army had taught him that much at least. He has fought orks, eldar and countless other xenos before his regiment had been, for distinguished conduct in the field, selected to join the Iyacrax garrison. For that, Ignace was thankful. Being on garrison duty had at least given him an almost certain chance of living to see his retirement. As he looked up at the sky, with the stars that seemed to be moving, he remembered that the chances of that had just reduced drastically. Chances were that he would meet his end during the insurrection, either at the end of a bolter or an enemy lasgun. As he thought he this, he looked up at the walls encircling the Gamma manufactory complex. On top of the wall, he could see the shadows of Imperial Army troopers marching up and down on sentry duty. Beside them were larger, bulkier shadows. Unmistakeably astartes. As he saw them, marching up and down the walls, they possesed none of the majesty they had once done. Now, the only thought that came into Igance's mind when he saw them was How can we know we can trust you? How do we know you won't join your brother legions against us? How do we know you're loyal?.

 

We can't. 

[Chief Captain Redd]

Ohh human doubt, I like it.

[Athrawes]

For the Imperial Garrison(the official garrison, not counting the Iron Bears) I was thinking of the following in terms of numbers

 

Astartes:

4000 Halycon Wardens. 

 

Imperial Army:

300 million Voltine Hussars

70 million Borrydok Highlanders

240,000 tanks of the Karrytine Heavy armour

67 million Korrikan Steam Troopers

58 million Horritan Gunners

39 million Grundun Rifles

25 million Volpine Guards

80,000 tanks of the Jurrakan Cavaliers. 

559 million men of the Imperial Army and 320,000 tanks, can be augmented by Iyacrax Workers Militia. 

 

 

I'll post a rough idea of mechanicum forces once I've familiarized myself with their organization. 

 

These numbers are getting kind of ridiculous, I know this is the Insurrection, at the dawn of the Imperium so everything is big, but by comparison, the Imperial guard during the siege of Vraks were like 34 million (over the course of 7 years) with 14 million casualties.

 

For comparison, during the Shadow crusade in the heresy, when two (full) legions attacked Armatura, which was rumored to be defended by 1 billion soldiers, Khârn assumed they they were totally going to die. Having a war where there are half a billion soldiers on each side is enormous. It's kind of hard to fathom how you could transport an invasion force that Large. 

 

Now, I know this is all for fun, and during major events like the siege of Terra and it's like would be billions of soldiers involved. but if 1 billion soldiers is enough to cripple not one but two legions potentially, that is a major investment of manpower on both sides, so I ask is this world tactically worth it?

[Sigismund229]

Given that Armatura, a war world which trained the majority of the Ultramarines recruits, was worth 1 billion men as a garisson, a world which produces a huge part of the legions heavy armour is probably going to be worth as much to both sides as Armatura was to the Ultramarines. And it wasn't rumoured that Armatura had 1 billion defenders. Ultramars own records listed the garisson as being 1 billion strong. So no, these numbers aren't overblown, at least not in my opinion. 

 

On the topic of Vraks and those numbers, the Vraks campaign only took place on a tiny part of the world. The majority of the world was left untouched and even then many people think that, as with a lot of what GW gives in terms of numbers for the IG, the numbers are too low. 

Edited September 12, 2015 by Sigismund229

[AlphariusOmegon108]

Please dont use "smurfs" sigismund, namecalling and stuff like that is against the rules ^^

 

And I do agree with Athrawes that the numbers are out of hand... Yes, we do have larger legions, yes we do have more forces, but for example: In the fluff terra was fortified with 1 million soldiers, excluding the legions. Just for comparisson ^^

[Athrawes]

All valid points. But I guess I'm the only one who sees it as strange that a forgeworld (whose manufacturing base is punitively destroyed during the fighting) is worth commiting a force capable destroying two complete Legions. And considering that the manufacturing base of the world was irradiated/destroyed/made unusable tells me it wasn't valued terribly highly by either side. If it was, it seems doubtful thet would (either side) want to harm it.

 

So the claim that it is highly valued seems pretty thin, which just means youre committing two Legion busting scale forces to win a prize no one really cares enough about to protect/make off limits.

[Sigismund229]

It being irradiated has pretty much been abandoned as an idea precisely because both sides value it. And no matter how much something is valued by both sides, it is going to get damaged in a war. So yes, both sides do value it enough to commit two such large forces.

[Athrawes]

I didn't know that was changed. It's s good thing it was but I still find it unfathomable to consider transporting an invasion force of half a billion. If you go by Dan Abnetts numbers (throughout his various guard books) an imperial troop transport can carry somewhere under half a million men. You are talking about an invasion fleet of 1000 ships Just got the troops, and that doesn't even include battle ships, frigates and destroyers, not to mention supply ships to feed them...

 

And when I say less than half a million, remember that the trisagion, furious abyss and blessed lady, three of the biggest ships made, only had a crew capacity of half a million so when I say a troop transport has less than half a million transport capacity, I'm being pretty generous.

 

At the minimum then, we are talking about an invasion fleet of over 1000 ships to accommodate a force that size, are you saying that doesn't seem outrageous to you?

Edited September 12, 2015 by Athrawes

[Chief Captain Redd]

Well in all fairness GW's numbers are born from the rule of cool. Because a million non Astartes, Custodes, Sisters, etcetera soldiers for the most important planet in an empire of over a million palents is way low. The US has about 2.1 million total soldiers both active and reserve. Or about 1 soldier for every 150 citizens. So while the numbers are a little over done as of right now I personally don't think it is way too high for a planet which is both strategically a very important target and probably home to 50+ billion humans as it'll have massive work forces for the manufactorums.

[Athrawes]

But this is written to be in the universe games workshop created. And in that universe, it would take more than a thousand ships (and that's the bare minimum assuming each transport can carry as many people as lorgar a abyss class super ships which seems dubious) to transport 1 sides invasion army going by these numbers.

 

Additionally, consider than an average expedition fleet has been floating around about 3 dozen ships in size.

 

Edit: And Redd, Mars' population is 20 billion, I kind of find it dubious this forgeworld would have more than twice the population of Mars.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Athrawes

[Doctor Perils]

Anyway, I can see why you'd have an Astartes contingent as garrisons, but it isn't really the Imperial Army's role to garrison a Forge World: that's the role of the Skitarii.