jad4400 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 ***TL;DR*** I was inspired by the stories about the various monastic communities in the Sengoku Jidai to try and make a marine chapter based around large monastic groupings. Since Marines already have a large fortress monastery, I wanted to make a chapter that would have several monastic complexes scattered around the sector they're stationed in. I was also intrigued by how well Salamander beliefs and training gelled with the Iron Hands despite the two chapters history of animosity and wanted to create a chapter that fused some of those beliefs. **Chapter Name**: Steel Dragons (Formerly the Steel Renderers). **Warcry** Current: (Mind and machine unite!). Former: (Purge the Flesh!) **Founding:** Seventh **Successors of:** Iron Hands **Primarch:** Ferrus Manus **Brief History:** The Steel Dragons were founded as the Steel Renderers in M34 during the Seventh Founding. Created based on the mysterious and dire predictions of the Emperor's Tarot the Renderers along with the other chapters created during the seventh founding were made to counter these unseen and distant threats facing the Imperium. Using the genetic stock of the Iron Hands to create the Renderers, Mechanicus genetors were secretly contacted by the Iron Council of Medusa to make small modifications to the gene seed of the new chapter in an attempt to reduce any physical weakness present. Unfortunately, the prodding and modification created a glaring flaw in the gene seed, changing the Catalepsean Node, the Steel Renderers can go long periods of time without sleep, but may at random fall into deep comas lasting hours, days, weeks or even years. Disgusted by this weakness, the Iron Hands sent only a handful of newly trained marines to help train and lead the new chapter. The Renderers in turn embraced a fanatical devotion to replacing their limbs with bionics as part of their initiation so that their Iron Fathers could use remote interfaces to move incapacitated marines from the field using their bionics. During an intense period of warfare in their sector when it was cut off by a warpstorm, the chapter was almost destroyed when a traitorous warband used an Eldar device to disable the bionic implants of the marines, leaving them unable to move or fight save for a hundred and fifty initiates and fighters who hadn't chopped off all their limbs yet. The rest of the chapter was slaughtered. Responding to their calls for aid, the Jade Dragons, a Salamander crusader chapter which had been stuck in the sector when the warp storm arrived came to the Renderer's aid. After a vicious battle which involved destroying a large Chaos fleet and a space hulk the Jade Dragons were all but destroyed (they were already under manned when they responded to the call), leaving only a chaplain of the Promethean Cult, a tech marine and several fighters. With their battle destroyed and most of the war gear lost, the few dragons agreed to merge with the Renderers, creating the Steel Dragons. By the 41st millennium the chapter had rebuilt its strength, and thanks to several forge worlds nearby and the Salamander predilection of forging equipment, the chapter is very well armed and equipped. **Allegiance and Homeworld:** The home world of the Steel Dragons is the feral world of Kenshiro. A formerly prosperous hive world, the civilization of Kenshiro was destroyed in a vicious war which devastated the planet. A radioactive wasteland of ruined hives and mutated dangerous creatures, survival is a daily battle. From this desperate scavenging people the Steel Dragons recruit the toughest survivors as initiates in their order. Annually the tribes will send several of their children on a planetary pilgrimage to the distant mountaintop fortress monastery of the chapter. Crossing radioactive deserts, frozen plains, rotted out hive spires inhabited by the mutated animals and former inhabitants from thousands of years ago, many pilgrims perish on the journey. The survivors must climb the one hundred thousand steps up the tallest mountain to reach the gates of the fortress and then must survive a fortnight outside the frozen gates before being allowed admission. In addition, smaller monasteries scattered across the sector receive children from families who wish to see their progeny admitted to the ranks of the Emperor's finest. the strongest of those children are placed in stasis pods and sent to Kenshiro once a decade to survive and make the pilgrimage across the planet. **Organization:** The Steel Dragons are a loyalist chapter, though like their progenitor are strongly codex divergent with an intense adherence to the the strength of steel over flesh, though their interpretation of such doctrine has its self diverged from their progenitors. Like the Iron Hands, they are not ruled by a chapter master, but rather a council of clans, though unlike the Iron Hands, they maintain only five clans as opposed to ten, due to consolidation measures taken to help offset random incapacitatetions due to their Catalepsean Nodes. Each clan rules one of the five monasteries scattered around the sector with a rotating group of marines stationed on the Kenshiro Fortress Monastery to screen and train initiates who survive the pilgrimage. Each clan has roughly two hundred marines. New initiates to the clans are used as scouts and after being fully trained are assigned to assault marine roles. Given the Catalepsean Node deficiency in the Dragons, the assault squads faces the greatest risk if they become incapacitated. Tactical squads are large formations of twenty marines who have a mix of small and heavy weaponry. Mechadendrite's are used to haul heavier pieces of war equipment with the squads and give each marine an extra weapon or two. Due to an intensive use of Mechadendrites and their use of larger flexible tactical squads, the Steel Dragons do not use devastator squads. Leading each clan is a Iron Father, a role heavily modified from the original Iron Hand position. While they mix the role of chaplain and tech marine like their progenitor's over time the Iron Fathers of the Steel Dragons have also stepped into the role of Captain as well for each clan. Veterans who've successfully completed the Red Pilgrimage form a small corp within each clan known as the Chosen of Ferrus. **Training:** Training and advancement is an esoteric mix of training, forging and mysticism. After an applicant is screened and admitted he spends a year training with the marines and other trainees in the monastery after the great Kenshiro pilgrimage. After the year has passed he is placed in a great workshop and order to create some kind of tool to demonstrate his abilities. These have ranged for knives, swords, crude guns to metal statues and carts. The object is then judged by a conclave of marines in the monastery. If it is accepted, the applicant is then implanted with the first phase of implants and sent to one of the five clans for further training. The neophyte will spend the next five years receiving training and input from the five clans, in theory. At the end of the fifth year, the initiate is returned to Kenshiro where he must forge his first Mechadendrite. Often a small utility arm with several tools, this first bionic will serve the marine well as he learns the nuances of equipment maintenance and artificing. After his Mechadendrite is deemed sufficient, the neophyte attends a selecting, where representatives from the five clans will select the neophytes who'll join their clan for the remainders of their lives. After the near destruction of their chapter, the Steel Dragons have forgone the elective amputation of limb for bionics. After their time in the scout squad is complete, the marine must once again forge another Mechadendrite to add to their first. Demanding higher quality than before, only once the second attachment is completed is the marine allowed to join the clan assault squad. Here the new marine learns aggression, mastering the fury innate in all descendants of Ferrus Manus, but also learn restraint, for a marine who becomes too aggressive risks himself should the deep sleep take him in battle. After spending years in the assault squad, the marine will forge another, even finer Mechadendrite before being allowed to join one of the tactical squads. This third Mechadendrite is always a powerful servo arm, capable of hauling a heavy bolter or large missile launcher or las cannons. In the tactical squad, the new marine will spend several years carrying heavy war gear for the squad to use in a quasi-devestator role, but often will fight with a normal bolters as well. After years in this role, the marine will forge one more Mechadendrite, either a utility arm or a combat arm depending on their assignment. It is only after the forth Mechadendrite is forged that the marine is considered a full-fledged brother in the clan. Further advancement in the clan is dependent on further rituals and training in the squad. While each marine is fully capable of maintaining and manufacturing the equipment needed for the squad, further techmarine training allows for more advance fabrication and creation to occur. Marines selected for such training are allowed to embark on the Red Pilgrimage, a centennial journey where one hundred marines from the clans will board a strike cruiser and go to Mars for additional training. After their training on Mars, the marines will spend several decades on crusade before returning home. From these veterans, each clans Iron Guardians are drawn from. In addition, these marines will have forged an additional Mechadendrite. To become an Iron Father, the marine must have already completed the Red Pilgrimage. Reciving permission from his clan, the marine will forge a sixth Mechadendrite, unrivaled by any of the five he's already made and then embark on a decade journey. First the aspirant will make a journey to Nocturne to meet the Salamanders and learn finer nuances of the Promethean Cult. Form there he will meditate on the cult's teachings while applying all he known of the machine cult and of the beliefs of Ferrus Manus. From Nocturne the marine must journey through the Imperium, surviving conflict and strife along the way. With the flaws in their Catalepsean Nodes this journey is incredibly perilous for the marine. Often these itinerant wanderers will join Inquisitorial bands and assist in rooting out heresy and other threats to the Imperium. Such skills prove useful if the marine survives and returns to his clan, not only has the marine learned more of the mysteries, they'll have skills necessary to sniff out heresy within and outside the chapter should it appear. **Allies:** Unlike their progenitors, the Steel Dragons maintain a friendly relationship with the Salamanders and their decedent chapters, holding onto the memory of the sacrifice of the Jade Dragons to save their chapter long ago. With the presence of three advance forge worlds in their home sector of Itano, and their Iron Hands heritage, the chapter also maintains close ties with the Adeptus Mechanicus, the centennial journey to Mars is always welcomed fondly and all three forge worlds of Sector Itano have several facilities ready for use by the marines if they need rapid supply replenishment. The chapter also maintains friendly relations with Helvik rogue trader family, as both enjoy close relationships with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and the chapter fondly remembers the time when a Helvik risked life and limb to bring loads of valuable supplies to the marines when they were besieged by an enemy. **Enemies:** Having spent thousands of years fighting the Orks of Blud Choppas Choppa, the Steel dragons maintain a fierce determination to root out and destroy the greenskin menace that threatens their sector. However, the Steel Dragons maintain a special hatred for the Eldar of Craftworld Fari, for it was by their interference that he vile forces of Chaos were allowed to gain access to the artifact which nearly destroyed their chapter. In addition the Eldar mount periodic and violent raids across the sector. The various heretical warbands which attack the sector too are hunted without mercy by the Dragons, who have pledged to find and eliminate every member of the warband which nearly destroyed their chapter thousands of years ago. **Chapter Beliefs:** Being descended from the Iron Hands, the beliefs of the Steel Dragons follow many of the beliefs of their founders, in particular the reverence for the strength of steel over flesh. However, after the near destruction of their chapter via the disabling of their bionics and their rescue by as Salamander descended chapter, the Steel Dragons adopted many tenants of the Promethean Cult, in particular the ideas of self-reliance, meditation to overcome mental foibles and the practice of forging equipment. Marines pursue ascetic lifestyles, evermore than the average chapter, a hold over trait from the Iron Hands and their disdain for the flesh. The anger that tends to be inherent in Iron Hands and their descendants is present in the Dragons, but they seek to temper their emotions with meditation and forging. In battle, the stubbornness common in both Iron Hands and Salamanders is seen. Appearance: http://imgur.com/0FooHwd I wanted to see if this looked alright, I wanted the chapter to be realistic for the established rules and lore of the 40k universe, but I don't want to accidentally make them a bunch of mary sues. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 ***TL;DR*** I was inspired by the stories about the various monastic communities in the Sengoku Jidai to try and make a marine chapter based around large monastic groupings. Since Marines already have a large fortress monastery, I wanted to make a chapter that would have several monastic complexes scattered around the sector they're stationed in. I was also intrigued by how well Salamander beliefs and training gelled with the Iron Hands despite the two chapters history of animosity and wanted to create a chapter that fused some of those beliefs. **Chapter Name**: Steel Dragons (Formerly the Steel Renderers). **Warcry** Current: (Mind and machine unite!). Former: (Purge the Flesh!) **Founding:** Seventh **Successors of:** Iron Hands **Primarch:** Ferrus Manus **Brief History:** The Steel Dragons were founded as the Steel Renderers in M34 during the Seventh Founding. Created based on the mysterious and dire predictions of the Emperor's Tarot the Renderers along with the other chapters created during the seventh founding were made to counter these unseen and distant threats facing the Imperium. Using the genetic stock of the Iron Hands to create the Renderers, Mechanicus genetors were secretly contacted by the Iron Council of Medusa to make small modifications to the gene seed of the new chapter in an attempt to reduce any physical weakness present. Unfortunately, the prodding and modification created a glaring flaw in the gene seed, changing the Catalepsean Node, the Steel Renderers can go long periods of time without sleep, but may at random fall into deep comas lasting hours, days, weeks or even years. Disgusted by this weakness, the Iron Hands sent only a handful of newly trained marines to help train and lead the new chapter. The Renderers in turn embraced a fanatical devotion to replacing their limbs with bionics as part of their initiation so that their Iron Fathers could use remote interfaces to move incapacitated marines from the field using their bionics. During an intense period of warfare in their sector when it was cut off by a warpstorm, the chapter was almost destroyed when a traitorous warband used an Eldar device to disable the bionic implants of the marines, leaving them unable to move or fight save for a hundred and fifty initiates and fighters who hadn't chopped off all their limbs yet. The rest of the chapter was slaughtered. Responding to their calls for aid, the Jade Dragons, a Salamander crusader chapter which had been stuck in the sector when the warp storm arrived came to the Renderer's aid. After a vicious battle which involved destroying a large Chaos fleet and a space hulk the Jade Dragons were all but destroyed (they were already under manned when they responded to the call), leaving only a chaplain of the Promethean Cult, a tech marine and several fighters. With their battle destroyed and most of the war gear lost, the few dragons agreed to merge with the Renderers, creating the Steel Dragons. By the 41st millennium the chapter had rebuilt its strength, and thanks to several forge worlds nearby and the Salamander predilection of forging equipment, the chapter is very well armed and equipped. **Allegiance and Homeworld:** The home world of the Steel Dragons is the feral world of Kenshiro. A formerly prosperous hive world, the civilization of Kenshiro was destroyed in a vicious war which devastated the planet. A radioactive wasteland of ruined hives and mutated dangerous creatures, survival is a daily battle. From this desperate scavenging people the Steel Dragons recruit the toughest survivors as initiates in their order. Annually the tribes will send several of their children on a planetary pilgrimage to the distant mountaintop fortress monastery of the chapter. Crossing radioactive deserts, frozen plains, rotted out hive spires inhabited by the mutated animals and former inhabitants from thousands of years ago, many pilgrims perish on the journey. The survivors must climb the one hundred thousand steps up the tallest mountain to reach the gates of the fortress and then must survive a fortnight outside the frozen gates before being allowed admission. In addition, smaller monasteries scattered across the sector receive children from families who wish to see their progeny admitted to the ranks of the Emperor's finest. the strongest of those children are placed in stasis pods and sent to Kenshiro once a decade to survive and make the pilgrimage across the planet. **Organization:** The Steel Dragons are a loyalist chapter, though like their progenitor are strongly codex divergent with an intense adherence to the the strength of steel over flesh, though their interpretation of such doctrine has its self diverged from their progenitors. Like the Iron Hands, they are not ruled by a chapter master, but rather a council of clans, though unlike the Iron Hands, they maintain only five clans as opposed to ten, due to consolidation measures taken to help offset random incapacitatetions due to their Catalepsean Nodes. Each clan rules one of the five monasteries scattered around the sector with a rotating group of marines stationed on the Kenshiro Fortress Monastery to screen and train initiates who survive the pilgrimage. Each clan has roughly two hundred marines. New initiates to the clans are used as scouts and after being fully trained are assigned to assault marine roles. Given the Catalepsean Node deficiency in the Dragons, the assault squads faces the greatest risk if they become incapacitated. Tactical squads are large formations of twenty marines who have a mix of small and heavy weaponry. Mechadendrite's are used to haul heavier pieces of war equipment with the squads and give each marine an extra weapon or two. Due to an intensive use of Mechadendrites and their use of larger flexible tactical squads, the Steel Dragons do not use devastator squads. Leading each clan is a Iron Father, a role heavily modified from the original Iron Hand position. While they mix the role of chaplain and tech marine like their progenitor's over time the Iron Fathers of the Steel Dragons have also stepped into the role of Captain as well for each clan. Veterans who've successfully completed the Red Pilgrimage form a small corp within each clan known as the Chosen of Ferrus. **Training:** Training and advancement is an esoteric mix of training, forging and mysticism. After an applicant is screened and admitted he spends a year training with the marines and other trainees in the monastery after the great Kenshiro pilgrimage. After the year has passed he is placed in a great workshop and order to create some kind of tool to demonstrate his abilities. These have ranged for knives, swords, crude guns to metal statues and carts. The object is then judged by a conclave of marines in the monastery. If it is accepted, the applicant is then implanted with the first phase of implants and sent to one of the five clans for further training. The neophyte will spend the next five years receiving training and input from the five clans, in theory. At the end of the fifth year, the initiate is returned to Kenshiro where he must forge his first Mechadendrite. Often a small utility arm with several tools, this first bionic will serve the marine well as he learns the nuances of equipment maintenance and artificing. After his Mechadendrite is deemed sufficient, the neophyte attends a selecting, where representatives from the five clans will select the neophytes who'll join their clan for the remainders of their lives. After the near destruction of their chapter, the Steel Dragons have forgone the elective amputation of limb for bionics. After their time in the scout squad is complete, the marine must once again forge another Mechadendrite to add to their first. Demanding higher quality than before, only once the second attachment is completed is the marine allowed to join the clan assault squad. Here the new marine learns aggression, mastering the fury innate in all descendants of Ferrus Manus, but also learn restraint, for a marine who becomes too aggressive risks himself should the deep sleep take him in battle. After spending years in the assault squad, the marine will forge another, even finer Mechadendrite before being allowed to join one of the tactical squads. This third Mechadendrite is always a powerful servo arm, capable of hauling a heavy bolter or large missile launcher or las cannons. In the tactical squad, the new marine will spend several years carrying heavy war gear for the squad to use in a quasi-devestator role, but often will fight with a normal bolters as well. After years in this role, the marine will forge one more Mechadendrite, either a utility arm or a combat arm depending on their assignment. It is only after the forth Mechadendrite is forged that the marine is considered a full-fledged brother in the clan. Further advancement in the clan is dependent on further rituals and training in the squad. While each marine is fully capable of maintaining and manufacturing the equipment needed for the squad, further techmarine training allows for more advance fabrication and creation to occur. Marines selected for such training are allowed to embark on the Red Pilgrimage, a centennial journey where one hundred marines from the clans will board a strike cruiser and go to Mars for additional training. After their training on Mars, the marines will spend several decades on crusade before returning home. From these veterans, each clans Iron Guardians are drawn from. In addition, these marines will have forged an additional Mechadendrite. To become an Iron Father, the marine must have already completed the Red Pilgrimage. Reciving permission from his clan, the marine will forge a sixth Mechadendrite, unrivaled by any of the five he's already made and then embark on a decade journey. First the aspirant will make a journey to Nocturne to meet the Salamanders and learn finer nuances of the Promethean Cult. Form there he will meditate on the cult's teachings while applying all he known of the machine cult and of the beliefs of Ferrus Manus. From Nocturne the marine must journey through the Imperium, surviving conflict and strife along the way. With the flaws in their Catalepsean Nodes this journey is incredibly perilous for the marine. Often these itinerant wanderers will join Inquisitorial bands and assist in rooting out heresy and other threats to the Imperium. Such skills prove useful if the marine survives and returns to his clan, not only has the marine learned more of the mysteries, they'll have skills necessary to sniff out heresy within and outside the chapter should it appear. **Allies:** Unlike their progenitors, the Steel Dragons maintain a friendly relationship with the Salamanders and their decedent chapters, holding onto the memory of the sacrifice of the Jade Dragons to save their chapter long ago. With the presence of three advance forge worlds in their home sector of Itano, and their Iron Hands heritage, the chapter also maintains close ties with the Adeptus Mechanicus, the centennial journey to Mars is always welcomed fondly and all three forge worlds of Sector Itano have several facilities ready for use by the marines if they need rapid supply replenishment. The chapter also maintains friendly relations with Helvik rogue trader family, as both enjoy close relationships with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and the chapter fondly remembers the time when a Helvik risked life and limb to bring loads of valuable supplies to the marines when they were besieged by an enemy. **Enemies:** Having spent thousands of years fighting the Orks of Blud Choppas Choppa, the Steel dragons maintain a fierce determination to root out and destroy the greenskin menace that threatens their sector. However, the Steel Dragons maintain a special hatred for the Eldar of Craftworld Fari, for it was by their interference that he vile forces of Chaos were allowed to gain access to the artifact which nearly destroyed their chapter. In addition the Eldar mount periodic and violent raids across the sector. The various heretical warbands which attack the sector too are hunted without mercy by the Dragons, who have pledged to find and eliminate every member of the warband which nearly destroyed their chapter thousands of years ago. **Chapter Beliefs:** Being descended from the Iron Hands, the beliefs of the Steel Dragons follow many of the beliefs of their founders, in particular the reverence for the strength of steel over flesh. However, after the near destruction of their chapter via the disabling of their bionics and their rescue by as Salamander descended chapter, the Steel Dragons adopted many tenants of the Promethean Cult, in particular the ideas of self-reliance, meditation to overcome mental foibles and the practice of forging equipment. Marines pursue ascetic lifestyles, evermore than the average chapter, a hold over trait from the Iron Hands and their disdain for the flesh. The anger that tends to be inherent in Iron Hands and their descendants is present in the Dragons, but they seek to temper their emotions with meditation and forging. In battle, the stubbornness common in both Iron Hands and Salamanders is seen. Appearance: http://imgur.com/0FooHwd I wanted to see if this looked alright, I wanted the chapter to be realistic for the established rules and lore of the 40k universe, but I don't want to accidentally make them a bunch of mary sues. Thanks! First of all, welcome to the Bolter and Chainsword ! Next: You've got some pretty interesting ideas here, I particularly like the Catalepsean Node defect that means they sometimes have to be remote controlled Something else that's interesting is this idea of merging two chapters: I haven't actually come across this kind of thing before, especially with chapters of two different Primarchs. I say this to show that I am not an expert in this thing; but I don't think this is particularly fluff friendly. Space Marine chapters are particularly proud of their heritage, and I don't believe they would be willing to give that heritage up so easily, especially with descendants of another Primarch. However, the idea of merging the "Flesh is Weak" with the Promethean Cult is still possible. However, I think it would be better for this for the two chapters to serve together in a particularly long campaign, where all of the Iron Hands successors are separated of into tiny groups, mixed with the Salamanders: the reason for this is that one of the core tenets of the Promethean Cult is self-reliance, and this sort of campaign is just the thing that would teach the Iron Hands the value of self reliance (and not just reliance on bionics) Here are a couple of other comments, thrown down in no particular order. I can sometimes be excessively blunt, so I appologise in advance, and hope you take it as constructive criticism as it is meant to be . Remember too that this is your chapter, and as such you are the one calling the shots! The list is pretty long, but don't let that scare you, I wouldn't generally be as thorough, but this is all in all a very interesting chapter, and quite an unusual one . There are some problems, granted, but that shouldn't put you off. I've really put all the problems (even the teeniest ones) I could find down, and some of my comments might be over the top, but it's not often you find a chapter that departs from the normal tropes that is as well thought out as yours, so well done ! Why did you choose the name "renderers" ? This for me has more to do with "rendering graphics", or at best something to do with aesthetics. This isn't really Heavy Metal enough for Iron Hands. The closest definition I could find that you might want to convey is this : "To reduce, convert, or melt down (fat) by heating." I wasn't aware of this, but if you want to convey something to do with melting metal, you might want to consider using "smelters", as this has got a much heavier metal conotation "Mind and machine unite !" doesn't sound very impressive on the battlefield to me. This can however be a very good chapter motto! Please don't fall into the trap of genetic modification: tampering with gene-seed is seen as heresy. Only chapters of the cursed founding can have genetic modifications from the outset, except for clearly exceptional circumstances, or if the chapter does them itself later in dire circumstances (the odds are however that they will be declared excomunicate traitoris and attacked by the imperium) Genetic modification doesn't actually add anything to you Index, and is non-canon friendly. Consider simply saying that it is geneseed mutation: this is perfectly canon friendly and fits your purposes just as well Why would an eldar artefact be able to control remote-controlled bionics ? Their technology is completely alien and different to the Imperium's. Far simpler to say that it is a Dark Mechanicum device, possibly specially crafted to exterminate your chapter ? Also, how can your marines hack off all their limbs? And surely hacking a limb off is just as debilitating as not being able to control it ? That is a major plot hole as things stand. One of the Horus Heresy stories recounts a similar story, where traitors make the Iron Hands' bionic hands strangle them, and the hero survives by loping his hand off. For them, it works, as this guy only had one bionic hand, and his other limbs weren't bionic. If you absolutely want to keep this idea, you have to be me precise on how many bionic limbs the Iron Hands have got, and how they can manage to fight the traitors afterwards. Just how large is this Chaos Fleet ? when I hear someone talking about a large chaos fleet, I think of one commanded by Abaddon or Typhus. Those are the equivalents of three chapters worth of fleets sometimes at the very least! There is simply no way a single chapter can defeat one of those. I may be exaggerating here, as I get that you don't mean a fleet quite so large. You do need to be more precise though, by saying who they are fighting (a chaos warband name can be relatively easy to find), and saying how numerous they are (especially how many marines there are, because I don't know how many people have got a very good idea of how big a 40k fleet is) As I already said, I'm unsure about this idea of merging two chapters But don't forget the Iron Hands are nearly just as adept at forging as the salamanders are: they however are more pragmatic in their approach, preferring quantity over quality, and quality over artistry. The Salamanders are all smiths, but each one focalises on quality before artistry before quantity (the way I see it anyway) 100 000 steps is probably a bit of an exaggeration. I had a quick look and they say that the minimum height of a step should be 4 inches. 400 000 inches is equivalent to 10 km, and everest is only 8km tall... I know this is 40k and all, but 100 000 seems oddly precise and a bit too big. I do however like this recruitment pilgrimage idea, it sounds daunting and has the asian influence you wanted, without going overboard. I was going to say the Iron Hands aren't that codex divergent, but that's more a matter of semantics. If I were you though, I'd limit the codex astartes divergences: if your chapter diverges from IH doctrine, it should go closer to the Codex Astartes, not further, unless there are extraordinary circumstances: I believe that your circumstances aren't that far yet. Saying that, I don't actually believe that you should change your organisation all that much, I think the wording is the main issue here. If I were you, I'd say each clan is divided into 2 companies: four clans have one battle and one reserve company, and the remaining clan has the veterans and recruits. Or something like that. That way, you get to keep your special clan organisation, but you stick closer to the CA, meaning less chances of falling into a force org trap, of which there are many. EDIT: I saw what you did for the scouts later. Adapt the previous comment at will! There are also those fluff sticklers out there that only trust Guilliman's CA, so this change would appease them. Why do you want such large units ? This is a chapter, not a legion, and so they aren't facing the same threats in the same way as the Legions of old. A squad of ten marines can take on a lot, but in any case should be employed as a stileto strike, not a blunt warhammer strike. A company of ten squads of ten men also remains incredibly flexible and versatile, two companies of ten squads of ten men more so; a single company of ten squads of twenty men however is far less flexible, and more importantly, mobile. Keep squads of ten men, and you should be safe enough. Widespread mechadendrite use is not practical, as it is too costly in ressources. What's more, your chapter has already had a close shave with destruction because of the overuse of bionics... Also, it isn't actually very useful to carry around too many weapons, since you can only use one at a time. High-ranking Techmarines can get away with having two extra shots thanks to a servo-harness, but that's just it: they're techmarines! And why does having mechadendrites replace having heavy weapons ? I don't get why you don't want to use devastators, they fulfill a very important tactical role, a role that a squad of twenty tacs will not be able to fill. Giving so many roles to an Iron Father is unwieldy and dangerous. The Imperium in 40k is all about separation of power, because they don't want a whole section of civilisation to fall to chaos just because the top honcho does. It is also unwieldy, because each function has duties to perform, which takes time. Already being an Iron Father takes up a lot of time, but if he did more, he wouldn't be able to perform any of these tasks competently enough. Also, I believe that the Iron Hands still use the position of chaplain, only the techmarine has an additional spiritual role. However, this may come from Clan Raukaan or later, and should therefore be ignored by any true Iron Hand. "training is a mix of training [snip]" ? sorry I like the idea that neophytes have to create a piece of equipment in order to be accepted. I also particularly liked the fact that you mentionned the cart, as it would show self-sufficience, which ties in with the Promethean cult. Servo-arms should be reserved only to those that have followed training with the Priests of Mars. I like your relations section: you show close ties to the salamanders, mechanicus and a rogue trader (which is refreshing), without going over the top. You also don't go into any rants about the nasty inquisition or ecclesiarchy, which is a trap too many fall into. What's more, you show how "friendly" you are with the Forge Worlds of your sector, without saying you have "exclusive rights" or anything, which is all too tempting when writing this kind of chapter. The Relations section is quite often fumbled, but you deal with it soberly and competently "tenets" not "tenants". An unusual colour scheme, but an effective one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad4400 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 ***TL;DR*** I was inspired by the stories about the various monastic communities in the Sengoku Jidai to try and make a marine chapter based around large monastic groupings. Since Marines already have a large fortress monastery, I wanted to make a chapter that would have several monastic complexes scattered around the sector they're stationed in. I was also intrigued by how well Salamander beliefs and training gelled with the Iron Hands despite the two chapters history of animosity and wanted to create a chapter that fused some of those beliefs. **Chapter Name**: Steel Dragons (Formerly the Steel Renderers). **Warcry** Current: (Mind and machine unite!). Former: (Purge the Flesh!) **Founding:** Seventh **Successors of:** Iron Hands **Primarch:** Ferrus Manus **Brief History:** The Steel Dragons were founded as the Steel Renderers in M34 during the Seventh Founding. Created based on the mysterious and dire predictions of the Emperor's Tarot the Renderers along with the other chapters created during the seventh founding were made to counter these unseen and distant threats facing the Imperium. Using the genetic stock of the Iron Hands to create the Renderers, Mechanicus genetors were secretly contacted by the Iron Council of Medusa to make small modifications to the gene seed of the new chapter in an attempt to reduce any physical weakness present. Unfortunately, the prodding and modification created a glaring flaw in the gene seed, changing the Catalepsean Node, the Steel Renderers can go long periods of time without sleep, but may at random fall into deep comas lasting hours, days, weeks or even years. Disgusted by this weakness, the Iron Hands sent only a handful of newly trained marines to help train and lead the new chapter. The Renderers in turn embraced a fanatical devotion to replacing their limbs with bionics as part of their initiation so that their Iron Fathers could use remote interfaces to move incapacitated marines from the field using their bionics. During an intense period of warfare in their sector when it was cut off by a warpstorm, the chapter was almost destroyed when a traitorous warband used an Eldar device to disable the bionic implants of the marines, leaving them unable to move or fight save for a hundred and fifty initiates and fighters who hadn't chopped off all their limbs yet. The rest of the chapter was slaughtered. Responding to their calls for aid, the Jade Dragons, a Salamander crusader chapter which had been stuck in the sector when the warp storm arrived came to the Renderer's aid. After a vicious battle which involved destroying a large Chaos fleet and a space hulk the Jade Dragons were all but destroyed (they were already under manned when they responded to the call), leaving only a chaplain of the Promethean Cult, a tech marine and several fighters. With their battle destroyed and most of the war gear lost, the few dragons agreed to merge with the Renderers, creating the Steel Dragons. By the 41st millennium the chapter had rebuilt its strength, and thanks to several forge worlds nearby and the Salamander predilection of forging equipment, the chapter is very well armed and equipped. **Allegiance and Homeworld:** The home world of the Steel Dragons is the feral world of Kenshiro. A formerly prosperous hive world, the civilization of Kenshiro was destroyed in a vicious war which devastated the planet. A radioactive wasteland of ruined hives and mutated dangerous creatures, survival is a daily battle. From this desperate scavenging people the Steel Dragons recruit the toughest survivors as initiates in their order. Annually the tribes will send several of their children on a planetary pilgrimage to the distant mountaintop fortress monastery of the chapter. Crossing radioactive deserts, frozen plains, rotted out hive spires inhabited by the mutated animals and former inhabitants from thousands of years ago, many pilgrims perish on the journey. The survivors must climb the one hundred thousand steps up the tallest mountain to reach the gates of the fortress and then must survive a fortnight outside the frozen gates before being allowed admission. In addition, smaller monasteries scattered across the sector receive children from families who wish to see their progeny admitted to the ranks of the Emperor's finest. the strongest of those children are placed in stasis pods and sent to Kenshiro once a decade to survive and make the pilgrimage across the planet. **Organization:** The Steel Dragons are a loyalist chapter, though like their progenitor are strongly codex divergent with an intense adherence to the the strength of steel over flesh, though their interpretation of such doctrine has its self diverged from their progenitors. Like the Iron Hands, they are not ruled by a chapter master, but rather a council of clans, though unlike the Iron Hands, they maintain only five clans as opposed to ten, due to consolidation measures taken to help offset random incapacitatetions due to their Catalepsean Nodes. Each clan rules one of the five monasteries scattered around the sector with a rotating group of marines stationed on the Kenshiro Fortress Monastery to screen and train initiates who survive the pilgrimage. Each clan has roughly two hundred marines. New initiates to the clans are used as scouts and after being fully trained are assigned to assault marine roles. Given the Catalepsean Node deficiency in the Dragons, the assault squads faces the greatest risk if they become incapacitated. Tactical squads are large formations of twenty marines who have a mix of small and heavy weaponry. Mechadendrite's are used to haul heavier pieces of war equipment with the squads and give each marine an extra weapon or two. Due to an intensive use of Mechadendrites and their use of larger flexible tactical squads, the Steel Dragons do not use devastator squads. Leading each clan is a Iron Father, a role heavily modified from the original Iron Hand position. While they mix the role of chaplain and tech marine like their progenitor's over time the Iron Fathers of the Steel Dragons have also stepped into the role of Captain as well for each clan. Veterans who've successfully completed the Red Pilgrimage form a small corp within each clan known as the Chosen of Ferrus. **Training:** Training and advancement is an esoteric mix of training, forging and mysticism. After an applicant is screened and admitted he spends a year training with the marines and other trainees in the monastery after the great Kenshiro pilgrimage. After the year has passed he is placed in a great workshop and order to create some kind of tool to demonstrate his abilities. These have ranged for knives, swords, crude guns to metal statues and carts. The object is then judged by a conclave of marines in the monastery. If it is accepted, the applicant is then implanted with the first phase of implants and sent to one of the five clans for further training. The neophyte will spend the next five years receiving training and input from the five clans, in theory. At the end of the fifth year, the initiate is returned to Kenshiro where he must forge his first Mechadendrite. Often a small utility arm with several tools, this first bionic will serve the marine well as he learns the nuances of equipment maintenance and artificing. After his Mechadendrite is deemed sufficient, the neophyte attends a selecting, where representatives from the five clans will select the neophytes who'll join their clan for the remainders of their lives. After the near destruction of their chapter, the Steel Dragons have forgone the elective amputation of limb for bionics. After their time in the scout squad is complete, the marine must once again forge another Mechadendrite to add to their first. Demanding higher quality than before, only once the second attachment is completed is the marine allowed to join the clan assault squad. Here the new marine learns aggression, mastering the fury innate in all descendants of Ferrus Manus, but also learn restraint, for a marine who becomes too aggressive risks himself should the deep sleep take him in battle. After spending years in the assault squad, the marine will forge another, even finer Mechadendrite before being allowed to join one of the tactical squads. This third Mechadendrite is always a powerful servo arm, capable of hauling a heavy bolter or large missile launcher or las cannons. In the tactical squad, the new marine will spend several years carrying heavy war gear for the squad to use in a quasi-devestator role, but often will fight with a normal bolters as well. After years in this role, the marine will forge one more Mechadendrite, either a utility arm or a combat arm depending on their assignment. It is only after the forth Mechadendrite is forged that the marine is considered a full-fledged brother in the clan. Further advancement in the clan is dependent on further rituals and training in the squad. While each marine is fully capable of maintaining and manufacturing the equipment needed for the squad, further techmarine training allows for more advance fabrication and creation to occur. Marines selected for such training are allowed to embark on the Red Pilgrimage, a centennial journey where one hundred marines from the clans will board a strike cruiser and go to Mars for additional training. After their training on Mars, the marines will spend several decades on crusade before returning home. From these veterans, each clans Iron Guardians are drawn from. In addition, these marines will have forged an additional Mechadendrite. To become an Iron Father, the marine must have already completed the Red Pilgrimage. Reciving permission from his clan, the marine will forge a sixth Mechadendrite, unrivaled by any of the five he's already made and then embark on a decade journey. First the aspirant will make a journey to Nocturne to meet the Salamanders and learn finer nuances of the Promethean Cult. Form there he will meditate on the cult's teachings while applying all he known of the machine cult and of the beliefs of Ferrus Manus. From Nocturne the marine must journey through the Imperium, surviving conflict and strife along the way. With the flaws in their Catalepsean Nodes this journey is incredibly perilous for the marine. Often these itinerant wanderers will join Inquisitorial bands and assist in rooting out heresy and other threats to the Imperium. Such skills prove useful if the marine survives and returns to his clan, not only has the marine learned more of the mysteries, they'll have skills necessary to sniff out heresy within and outside the chapter should it appear. **Allies:** Unlike their progenitors, the Steel Dragons maintain a friendly relationship with the Salamanders and their decedent chapters, holding onto the memory of the sacrifice of the Jade Dragons to save their chapter long ago. With the presence of three advance forge worlds in their home sector of Itano, and their Iron Hands heritage, the chapter also maintains close ties with the Adeptus Mechanicus, the centennial journey to Mars is always welcomed fondly and all three forge worlds of Sector Itano have several facilities ready for use by the marines if they need rapid supply replenishment. The chapter also maintains friendly relations with Helvik rogue trader family, as both enjoy close relationships with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and the chapter fondly remembers the time when a Helvik risked life and limb to bring loads of valuable supplies to the marines when they were besieged by an enemy. **Enemies:** Having spent thousands of years fighting the Orks of Blud Choppas Choppa, the Steel dragons maintain a fierce determination to root out and destroy the greenskin menace that threatens their sector. However, the Steel Dragons maintain a special hatred for the Eldar of Craftworld Fari, for it was by their interference that he vile forces of Chaos were allowed to gain access to the artifact which nearly destroyed their chapter. In addition the Eldar mount periodic and violent raids across the sector. The various heretical warbands which attack the sector too are hunted without mercy by the Dragons, who have pledged to find and eliminate every member of the warband which nearly destroyed their chapter thousands of years ago. **Chapter Beliefs:** Being descended from the Iron Hands, the beliefs of the Steel Dragons follow many of the beliefs of their founders, in particular the reverence for the strength of steel over flesh. However, after the near destruction of their chapter via the disabling of their bionics and their rescue by as Salamander descended chapter, the Steel Dragons adopted many tenants of the Promethean Cult, in particular the ideas of self-reliance, meditation to overcome mental foibles and the practice of forging equipment. Marines pursue ascetic lifestyles, evermore than the average chapter, a hold over trait from the Iron Hands and their disdain for the flesh. The anger that tends to be inherent in Iron Hands and their descendants is present in the Dragons, but they seek to temper their emotions with meditation and forging. In battle, the stubbornness common in both Iron Hands and Salamanders is seen. Appearance: http://imgur.com/0FooHwd I wanted to see if this looked alright, I wanted the chapter to be realistic for the established rules and lore of the 40k universe, but I don't want to accidentally make them a bunch of mary sues. Thanks! First of all, welcome to the Bolter and Chainsword ! Next: You've got some pretty interesting ideas here, I particularly like the Catalepsean Node defect that means they sometimes have to be remote controlled Something else that's interesting is this idea of merging two chapters: I haven't actually come across this kind of thing before, especially with chapters of two different Primarchs. I say this to show that I am not an expert in this thing; but I don't think this is particularly fluff friendly. Space Marine chapters are particularly proud of their heritage, and I don't believe they would be willing to give that heritage up so easily, especially with descendants of another Primarch. However, the idea of merging the "Flesh is Weak" with the Promethean Cult is still possible. However, I think it would be better for this for the two chapters to serve together in a particularly long campaign, where all of the Iron Hands successors are separated of into tiny groups, mixed with the Salamanders: the reason for this is that one of the core tenets of the Promethean Cult is self-reliance, and this sort of campaign is just the thing that would teach the Iron Hands the value of self reliance (and not just reliance on bionics) Here are a couple of other comments, thrown down in no particular order. I can sometimes be excessively blunt, so I appologise in advance, and hope you take it as constructive criticism as it is meant to be . Remember too that this is your chapter, and as such you are the one calling the shots! The list is pretty long, but don't let that scare you, I wouldn't generally be as thorough, but this is all in all a very interesting chapter, and quite an unusual one . There are some problems, granted, but that shouldn't put you off. I've really put all the problems (even the teeniest ones) I could find down, and some of my comments might be over the top, but it's not often you find a chapter that departs from the normal tropes that is as well thought out as yours, so well done ! Why did you choose the name "renderers" ? This for me has more to do with "rendering graphics", or at best something to do with aesthetics. This isn't really Heavy Metal enough for Iron Hands. The closest definition I could find that you might want to convey is this : "To reduce, convert, or melt down (fat) by heating." I wasn't aware of this, but if you want to convey something to do with melting metal, you might want to consider using "smelters", as this has got a much heavier metal conotation "Mind and machine unite !" doesn't sound very impressive on the battlefield to me. This can however be a very good chapter motto! Please don't fall into the trap of genetic modification: tampering with gene-seed is seen as heresy. Only chapters of the cursed founding can have genetic modifications from the outset, except for clearly exceptional circumstances, or if the chapter does them itself later in dire circumstances (the odds are however that they will be declared excomunicate traitoris and attacked by the imperium) Genetic modification doesn't actually add anything to you Index, and is non-canon friendly. Consider simply saying that it is geneseed mutation: this is perfectly canon friendly and fits your purposes just as well Why would an eldar artefact be able to control remote-controlled bionics ? Their technology is completely alien and different to the Imperium's. Far simpler to say that it is a Dark Mechanicum device, possibly specially crafted to exterminate your chapter ? Also, how can your marines hack off all their limbs? And surely hacking a limb off is just as debilitating as not being able to control it ? That is a major plot hole as things stand. One of the Horus Heresy stories recounts a similar story, where traitors make the Iron Hands' bionic hands strangle them, and the hero survives by loping his hand off. For them, it works, as this guy only had one bionic hand, and his other limbs weren't bionic. If you absolutely want to keep this idea, you have to be me precise on how many bionic limbs the Iron Hands have got, and how they can manage to fight the traitors afterwards. Just how large is this Chaos Fleet ? when I hear someone talking about a large chaos fleet, I think of one commanded by Abaddon or Typhus. Those are the equivalents of three chapters worth of fleets sometimes at the very least! There is simply no way a single chapter can defeat one of those. I may be exaggerating here, as I get that you don't mean a fleet quite so large. You do need to be more precise though, by saying who they are fighting (a chaos warband name can be relatively easy to find), and saying how numerous they are (especially how many marines there are, because I don't know how many people have got a very good idea of how big a 40k fleet is) As I already said, I'm unsure about this idea of merging two chapters But don't forget the Iron Hands are nearly just as adept at forging as the salamanders are: they however are more pragmatic in their approach, preferring quantity over quality, and quality over artistry. The Salamanders are all smiths, but each one focalises on quality before artistry before quantity (the way I see it anyway) 100 000 steps is probably a bit of an exaggeration. I had a quick look and they say that the minimum height of a step should be 4 inches. 400 000 inches is equivalent to 10 km, and everest is only 8km tall... I know this is 40k and all, but 100 000 seems oddly precise and a bit too big. I do however like this recruitment pilgrimage idea, it sounds daunting and has the asian influence you wanted, without going overboard. I was going to say the Iron Hands aren't that codex divergent, but that's more a matter of semantics. If I were you though, I'd limit the codex astartes divergences: if your chapter diverges from IH doctrine, it should go closer to the Codex Astartes, not further, unless there are extraordinary circumstances: I believe that your circumstances aren't that far yet. Saying that, I don't actually believe that you should change your organisation all that much, I think the wording is the main issue here. If I were you, I'd say each clan is divided into 2 companies: four clans have one battle and one reserve company, and the remaining clan has the veterans and recruits. Or something like that. That way, you get to keep your special clan organisation, but you stick closer to the CA, meaning less chances of falling into a force org trap, of which there are many. EDIT: I saw what you did for the scouts later. Adapt the previous comment at will! There are also those fluff sticklers out there that only trust Guilliman's CA, so this change would appease them. Why do you want such large units ? This is a chapter, not a legion, and so they aren't facing the same threats in the same way as the Legions of old. A squad of ten marines can take on a lot, but in any case should be employed as a stileto strike, not a blunt warhammer strike. A company of ten squads of ten men also remains incredibly flexible and versatile, two companies of ten squads of ten men more so; a single company of ten squads of twenty men however is far less flexible, and more importantly, mobile. Keep squads of ten men, and you should be safe enough. Widespread mechadendrite use is not practical, as it is too costly in ressources. What's more, your chapter has already had a close shave with destruction because of the overuse of bionics... Also, it isn't actually very useful to carry around too many weapons, since you can only use one at a time. High-ranking Techmarines can get away with having two extra shots thanks to a servo-harness, but that's just it: they're techmarines! And why does having mechadendrites replace having heavy weapons ? I don't get why you don't want to use devastators, they fulfill a very important tactical role, a role that a squad of twenty tacs will not be able to fill. Giving so many roles to an Iron Father is unwieldy and dangerous. The Imperium in 40k is all about separation of power, because they don't want a whole section of civilisation to fall to chaos just because the top honcho does. It is also unwieldy, because each function has duties to perform, which takes time. Already being an Iron Father takes up a lot of time, but if he did more, he wouldn't be able to perform any of these tasks competently enough. Also, I believe that the Iron Hands still use the position of chaplain, only the techmarine has an additional spiritual role. However, this may come from Clan Raukaan or later, and should therefore be ignored by any true Iron Hand. "training is a mix of training [snip]" ? sorry I like the idea that neophytes have to create a piece of equipment in order to be accepted. I also particularly liked the fact that you mentionned the cart, as it would show self-sufficience, which ties in with the Promethean cult. Servo-arms should be reserved only to those that have followed training with the Priests of Mars. I like your relations section: you show close ties to the salamanders, mechanicus and a rogue trader (which is refreshing), without going over the top. You also don't go into any rants about the nasty inquisition or ecclesiarchy, which is a trap too many fall into. What's more, you show how "friendly" you are with the Forge Worlds of your sector, without saying you have "exclusive rights" or anything, which is all too tempting when writing this kind of chapter. The Relations section is quite often fumbled, but you deal with it soberly and competently "tenets" not "tenants". An unusual colour scheme, but an effective one Hello! Thank you so much for taking the time to read my fluff and give me critique, I really appreciate it, I love getting feedback and I have a thick enough skin to take a lot of bluntness. As much as I want to make a cool chapter of my own design, I want it to have a good amount of verisimilitude to fit within the 40K universe. I'll put a responce list in the spoiler tab below so the page doesn't get too long with massive block quotes! 1. I went with the name renderers since it made me think of steel and metal being torn and ripped apart, though in truth I was just looking for a Iron Hands like name to be a placeholder for the chapter before they became the Steel Dragons. I'll probably change it to either something like the Steel Reductors or I might just have them always be the Steel Dragons. 2. Agreed, I need a better battlecry, but great suggestion that it be the chapter motto, it reminds me a bit of the Blood Angels pre-Retribution motto. 3. Oooo, good point, I totally forgot fiddling with the gene-seed outside the Cursed founding is a no-no. A simple mutation works way better like you said. Plus that also gives another reason why the Iron Hands don't like this decedent chapter: "They used our gene-seed and dared to develop a weakness?!?" 4. I must have mistyped or kept in my rough draft. The Eldar device didn't take control of the marines implants, but rather just disabled them, basically an Eldar-like EMP (I remember reading somewhere the Eldar had done something similar to the Iron Hands). The marines who survived were the ones who had not yet fully cyberized themselves, so they still had organic limbs they could use to fight and move, so mostly the junior members of the chapter. 5. The size of the Chaos fleet I left vague since I genuinely did not know how big to make it while still being reasonable for the fluff and I didn't want to go overboard with Ward-esque shenanigans to beat a super large force that had really good gear. Pretty much the only thing I'm married to with the Warband is that is used a Space Hulk for the attack and they had one old battleship in the fleet that honestly could be the bulk of their force. For the sector there are two main warbands, a Slaanesh worshiping force lead by a singular Fallen Angel, the force lives on a planet that travels in and out of the warp luring people to it with promises of pleasure as its shrouded in mist (kind of like the the imagery for the Japanese Floating World idea of pleasure houses). The other is a Chaos Undivided Warband that has a high number of fallen astartes for a warband, live in an asteroid field and are famous for stealing an Imperial Battleship for their sorcerer warleader to use. I think the later group would be the ones who attacked and I've tentatively called them the Corsairs of Damnation, though I'm not married to the name. 6 and 7. Yes I've been going back and forth on the whole chapter merging. I know I want Ironhands that are close to Salamander ideology (again, I felt their ideas gelled well), but some folks over on Reddit (I posted the fluff on a couple forums to get a lot of input) pointed out that there are no real confirmed descendants of the Salamanders. One idea I was kicking around was that maybe instead of a Salamander descended chapter, it was just a company of Salamanders who came to Steel Dragon's aid, maybe they were a group following a Forge Father. In the aftermath maybe the company was down to just one or two guys, and seeing the devastated Dragons asked to remain to help them rebuild (since Salamanders are bros and like helping). I know trading marines between chapters is likewise something that doesn't really happen but probably it a bit more reasonable than a whole chapter being folded into another. 8. The 100,000 steps is kind of a exaggeration of traditional eastern philosophy (there is a lot of references to the number 10,000 in those philosophies to emphasize the distance and time of something). The stairs I imagine also have long horizontal sections like the stairs at Mt. Nisen in Switzerland. I figured hey 40k, everything is big, having a staircase that's 100,000 steps going long kilometers up a mountain wouldn't be too much of a stretch, though if I'm wrong I can definitely change that 9. Thats a really good suggestion, 5 clans, but with structures that give them a lot of codex credibility. Plus having a reserve company for a clan means that one company stays at the monastery the clan is assigned too to do maintenance and training while the other company can go out and fight/get stuff done. Great points 10. When I was making this chapter, what I was doing was using a random space marine generator and the chapter rolled "Does Not Use Devastators" so I tried to come up with a fluff reason for why this clan would not do so given all the other things I rolled (including the gene-seed problem the chapter has). The idea behind large tactical squads was that they can bring more heavy weapons to a fights, and incase for any reason one of the tactical marines falls into a random coma, they won't be down a man at a critical juncture. That said though, as you say, ten men squads definitely work too, and they can always just bring extra heavy weapons with them. 11 and 12. The mechadendrite use for the chapter is their big change from the Iron Hands. This chapter no longer chops off limbs to replace with bionics like the Hands do since they almost got wiped out because of that. However, they still hold true the Iron Hands idea of machine being better than flesh, but having been let down big time by machine, went a different direction. Mechadendrite are very useful and can enhance the combat capabilities or utility capabilities of a marine, and if for somereson its disabled, its just dead weight on the back, the marine still has four functional limbs and worse comes to worse, an Apothacary could pull a mechadendrite off someones back. The mechadendrite is an addition to the body rather than a replacement for something, which the chapter values greatly. The costliness of the mechadendrite I figured would be offset by the fact that everyone in the chapter has to make their own. I can alwasy scale back the number of weapons being carried around, the way I saw it, marines usually use one mechadendrite and that's some-kind of basic harness that carries a heavy bolter or missile launcher or lascannon so the marine can carry normal bolters or weapons in their actual hands. Going back to Iron Hands style of fighting, which is a slow, quasi-robot advance mercilessly fighting their enemies, having marines that had an extra mechadendrite controlled gun added to that kind of robotic feel to an unfeeling group of solemn marines advancing under fire to fight. That's kind of my long winded explanation anyhow 13. Good point about the Iron Father. I was actually thinking about changing that around. Still have the pilgrimage to Mars to become a father, but the leaders of each clan are a pair of marines known as Monastery Masters or some kind of august sounding rank. One master leads the active company while the other leads the reserve company. These masters can the ones who do the ten year solo trip across the galaxy learning all kind of things from other facets of the imperium. Plus that gives the ruling council of the Iron Dragons 10 dude, the same as the Iron Hands Council. 14. Yeah the wiki was kind of weird, it first has Iron Fathers, which it says replaces chaplains for the Iron Hands and says they have no chaplains, but then there are chaplains below. 15. Whoops, typo, lol. 16. I'm glad you liked that idea, again I saw it as something that worked well with both Salamander and Iron Hands sensibilities. 17. That's a good suggestion, the iconic big servo arms belong only to those who complete the great Red Pilgrimage. 18. I'm glad you liked the relations! I wholeheartedly agree, I'm not a big fan of chapters who aren't good with the Inquisition or Ecclesiarchy, I mean I know both groups tend to be jerks, but unless your're a founding legion/chapter of the space marines, if you get on either on of their naughty lists, you chapter's ass is grass. All those relations were rolled randomly, but I was happy with how well they gelled with the chapter (I wrote this part last). I'm always a fan of Space Marines being cool with a Rogue Trader. For this family, the marines have helped out a few times, never officially, but it just so happens that they've "been on their way to a mission and just happened to be in the area to help the family if something is amiss" 19. Whoop another typo 20. I'm glad you liked the colors, I tried to blend Salamander and Iron Hands colors and I'm glad it worked. Thank you again for reading everything, I really appreciate input and critique, only from that can we make awesome space marine chapters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Cool For the name, you could always run with Steel Renders or Rippers ? This new option of a company of Salamanders giving a hand seems far more feesible to be honest. One thing that's just occured to me is that you don't say when the keep-monasteries were built: perhaps this could be salamander influence, because of the whole seven sacred cities on Nocturne ? With that explanation I'm prepared to accept the mechadendrites on all the marines, but I think you should probably scale them down: each marine might have one combat and one utility dendrite tops. More would mean techmarines. And no Heavy weapons wielding! There's a reason servo-harnesses only have two pistol sized weapons, and they're the heavy hitters of the group. A close combat dendrite or a bolt pistol dendrite could be feasible though ? Techmarines are already trained on Mars (all chapters I think), but pilgramages to other "Holy Places" of the mechanicum (including Medusa) could be interesting, echoing the "pilgramage" neophytes do to each monastery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad4400 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Cool For the name, you could always run with Steel Renders or Rippers ? This new option of a company of Salamanders giving a hand seems far more feesible to be honest. One thing that's just occured to me is that you don't say when the keep-monasteries were built: perhaps this could be salamander influence, because of the whole seven sacred cities on Nocturne ? With that explanation I'm prepared to accept the mechadendrites on all the marines, but I think you should probably scale them down: each marine might have one combat and one utility dendrite tops. More would mean techmarines. And no Heavy weapons wielding! There's a reason servo-harnesses only have two pistol sized weapons, and they're the heavy hitters of the group. A close combat dendrite or a bolt pistol dendrite could be feasible though ? Techmarines are already trained on Mars (all chapters I think), but pilgramages to other "Holy Places" of the mechanicum (including Medusa) could be interesting, echoing the "pilgramage" neophytes do to each monastery Ooo, those are good ideas for names. Same with the smaller keep monasteries, that's quite a Salamander suggestion, spreading out a bit across the area of space, technically closer to people, but still keeping the Iron Hands level of isolationism (though outside their own people the Salamanders are also very isolationist). And the scaling back of dendrites is a good suggestion, one utility and one combat for all the marines, and the tech marine swaps one of those to have a holy servo arm. For heavy weapons since they aren't apart of the dendrites, how would the chapter adapt to not really using Devastators? Oooo, for pilgrimage places, the could visit the 4 other Segmentum fortresses and also visit the Medusa (though if the Iron Hands don't really like this chapter maybe a different planet instead) and Nocturne as well before wrapping it up with a trip to Holy Terra and one more stop off at Mars where they come back with a group who completed their techmarine training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Oooo, for pilgrimage places, the could visit the 4 other Segmentum fortresses and also visit the Medusa (though if the Iron Hands don't really like this chapter maybe a different planet instead) and Nocturne as well before wrapping it up with a trip to Holy Terra and one more stop off at Mars where they come back with a group who completed their techmarine training. Seems feasible And the scaling back of dendrites is a good suggestion, one utility and one combat for all the marines, and the tech marine swaps one of those to have a holy servo arm. For heavy weapons since they aren't apart of the dendrites, how would the chapter adapt to not really using Devastators? TBH, I can only think of one canon example of a chapter not having devastators: the Black Templars (and that was only before they integrated the 6th ed codex). They pretty much make up for it by using lots of close combat units, and attack bike units. How an Iron Hands successor with Salamander affinities does without Devastators (and more importantly, why they would do without devastators), I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad4400 Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 Oooo, for pilgrimage places, the could visit the 4 other Segmentum fortresses and also visit the Medusa (though if the Iron Hands don't really like this chapter maybe a different planet instead) and Nocturne as well before wrapping it up with a trip to Holy Terra and one more stop off at Mars where they come back with a group who completed their techmarine training. Seems feasible And the scaling back of dendrites is a good suggestion, one utility and one combat for all the marines, and the tech marine swaps one of those to have a holy servo arm. For heavy weapons since they aren't apart of the dendrites, how would the chapter adapt to not really using Devastators? TBH, I can only think of one canon example of a chapter not having devastators: the Black Templars (and that was only before they integrated the 6th ed codex). They pretty much make up for it by using lots of close combat units, and attack bike units. How an Iron Hands successor with Salamander affinities does without Devastators (and more importantly, why they would do without devastators), I don't know. Hmmm good points, They could always field more assault marines, focus mainly on tactical and assault guys (having a dendrite for an assault guy would be helpful since thats one more gun shooting someone. If they can use two ballistic dendrites thats a minimum of two bolt pistols and a powerful chain weapon like a chain glaive, though like you said, two dendrite weapons (ad no other dendrites on the guy) could be a bit too much, especially in the thick of combat). Worse comes to worse, they could always use devastators, or maybe their scouts combine roles with devastators, though they might lack the augments capable of using devastator weapons. Not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akuro Adennyciia Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I like the idea of Dendrites being more available. Its Ironic because I'm doing another IH successor, though a founding later. However, the whole merging of chapters thing wouldn't hold. The parent chapter would demand them to return, as well as any of their gene seed- not having the gene seed of their fallen brothers would :cuss them off. Iron Hands successors would also likely already have a predilection for maintaining their gear, so you could leave the effects of the salamanders being more spiritual- especially coupled with the loss. Though to be honest, such a defeat would likely turn them away from bionics and reliance on tech. :whoops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad4400 Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 I like the idea of Dendrites being more available. Its Ironic because I'm doing another IH successor, though a founding later. However, the whole merging of chapters thing wouldn't hold. The parent chapter would demand them to return, as well as any of their gene seed- not having the gene seed of their fallen brothers would them off. Iron Hands successors would also likely already have a predilection for maintaining their gear, so you could leave the effects of the salamanders being more spiritual- especially coupled with the loss. Though to be honest, such a defeat would likely turn them away from bionics and reliance on tech. i'm glad you enjoyed the concept, I wanted to give the IH some love since they seem to be sadly absent from stuff a lot of the times. To your points I wholeheartedly agree. I'm going some rewrites right now actually, based on several suggestions I got from Lord Thorne and the posts on reddit. The chapter fusion thing is going. Instead it'll just be a company of Salamanders who were schlepping around the sector looking for a Vulkan artifact who responded to the Dragon's SOS, and a couple of their guys then got permission to stay long term on loan to help the poor SOB's rebuild after they almost got destroyed (Salamander Brohood). Also the spiritual aspect will be emphasized more too, hence why they didn't abandon bionics after the whole mass disabling. For the elevator pitch version, the Dragons initially cyberized themselves to compensate for their random comas, so after their near annihilation, with the Salamander's introducing them to the meditative Promethean Cult, they adopted a new attitude of bionics synthesizing with man rather than replacing him. They still believe in machine strength but temper it with the need for machines to be complementary, hence why they now focus on Dendrites (and Bionic eyes, but only one, still keeping another organic one), they complement a marines abilities without replacing their flesh (as opposed to the older IH orthodoxy of bionic supremacy). Obviously thats only the rough idea, but thats more where I'm leaning, though again, anyones C&C is most welcome and appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akuro Adennyciia Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Sounds good. I take it they aren't having much interaction with the Moirae schism? I'd say that's a big one for Iron Hands successors to consider, as well as the Occlusiad war though far shorter and less impact overall. Oddly enough, I also realized that you have your chapter split as mine is- five double strength companies rather than the traditional ten. Iron Hands like keeping things simple I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad4400 Posted September 19, 2015 Author Share Posted September 19, 2015 Sounds good. I take it they aren't having much interaction with the Moirae schism? I'd say that's a big one for Iron Hands successors to consider, as well as the Occlusiad war though far shorter and less impact overall. Oddly enough, I also realized that you have your chapter split as mine is- five double strength companies rather than the traditional ten. Iron Hands like keeping things simple I guess. Haha, great minds think alike I suppose. Correct, the Moirae schism didn't really impact this sector, though I do understand that the techno-heresy is a big deal for the AdMec and AdMec allied space marine chapters. Since the heresy happened about a thousand years before the Dragons changed up their philosophy I supposed they dogged one hell of an ideological bullet, since now a days the five clans are a lot more independent and separate from their homeworld, (and the sector their station in is crawling with Inquisitors on account of all the weird worlds in the sector). Plus during a lot of M35 and early M36 (before the big century and a half warpstrom) the sector was receiving large amounts of traffic from Mars on account of a really valuable world being found, colonized and turned into a forge world, so the other two forge worlds had to be really good about toeing the line with Mars then and later on as the sector's production value increased, toed the line even more so. As for the Occlusaid War, apart from one or two marines serving in the Deathwatch or on their out of system pilgrimage at the time, the Dragons had no role their (Sector Itano, their operational space, is on the edges of the Segmentum Tempestus, so opposite end of the of galaxy from Occlusaid War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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