9 replies to this topic

[Stormthroe]

Good Morning Ladies and Gentlemen!

 

I recently posted in the introductions forum, and explained that after a long hiatus I am looking to start up an Imperial Guard army.  I left the hobby back in 4th edition, when I played Necrons; and wow, have things changed since then!

 

I really don't know how to make heads or tails out of all the new tricks, and allies, and flyers, and such and such, and so and so that has wrapped into the gaming aspects of the hobby, but I do know one thing; I am in love with the Elysians. 

 

The fluff is phenomenal, and the models on Forgeworld are gorgeous.  I spent three years in the Marine Corps here in the states, and I am fascinated with the story that you can see in each mini.  I know the scheme I'd like to paint, and am working on some personal lore for my own force when I have the time at home.

 

However, with all these new rules and goodies, and occasionally nonsense, I am a bit lost in the sauce as to where I need to begin with a ruleset.  I had initially thought of using Tempestus Scions as the base while using Elysian miniatures because they fit pretty well, but general discussion browsing has revealed that scions on their own are a bit iffy.  Vanilla Guard would require quite a few models to become effective due to weight of bodies, which as I understand and remember has always been the Guard's thing, but I would prefer an alpha strike force like the Elysians do in the fluff. 

 

My question is, what are you folks' thoughts?  To say I have no idea where to begin is an understatement here, and while I can certainly begin buying models and getting down to painting, I'd like to set up a budget and to do so I need a direction to move towards.  I will most certainly be doing a painting blog here on B&C to hold myself accountable, but I can't begin until I figure out what models I'll need to buy and where to get started to have a playable force in the style I want.

[librisrouge]

Get yourself a copy of Imperial Armor Vol. 3, 2nd Edition and Imperial Armor Vol. 4, 2nd Edition.

 

Both of them contain the lists for Elysian Drop Troops, though Vol. 4 is the D-99 detachment that plays a bit different (more special forcesish.) Both are currently legal in a number of places in the U.S., though the Vol. 3 list is an edition back most people don't have a problem with it. ITC even just allowed it for their events.

 

Either way, welcome to the barracks and the best faction in 40k.

[CyderPirate]

Have you got any reason to avoid the FW army lists for the Elysians? I think they're featured in a couple of IA books (I'll let a better educated person point you to the most up-to-date books). I'd start there if I were you - as far as I know, they can do the complete air cav thing without worrying about having stuff on the table turn 1.

 

 

If you don't want to go with FW's rules, a couple of Valkyries full of veterans would be a good place to start, with a Vendetta or Vulture or two thrown in for good measure. You'd need something to start on the board though, as the flyers don't normally turn up until turn 2.

[Truesight]

My advice as someone who entered the hobby recently is to set small goals.  Make a 500 point list you are happy with, it's hard with guard, but try.  Get those units, assemble, paint and play them.  Playing is important for me because it adds drive to the modelling side.  Then start adding points.  Make and collect a 1000 point list.  Then 1500.  Collect your army in usable chunks.

As a ground pounding Krieger I'm not too familiar with the Elysians, but I know Reece over at Frontline gaming has been falling in love with a Elysian/ Space marine list.  Here's a report:

He has some bad luck, but it looks like a fun and dynamic army .  More recently he has been smashing people supposedly.

As for what to start with, well you can't go wrong with a HQ and two troops.   If you need help with list ideas feel free to put one up in the army list section, people are always very helpful there.

 

Good luck and welcome!

[Stormthroe]

I'm not entirely new to the hobby; I played years back before I left for college and my time in the military.  Like I said, last time I played was 4th edition; its really only that so much has changed, I don't know what is competitive, what is not.

 

I really have NO idea of most of the new rules for air units which I'm in the process of learning, however, I learn best through playing so the first coupld games I do I'll be practicing with the new rules a bit more.

 

Nothing is keeping me away from Forgeworld at all, I just don't know what has a best fit for the way Elysians play; the alpha strike special forces theme is really what attracts me to them and I want the play style to reflect that.  If the best fit is in the Imperial Armor books, then that's the route I'll take.

 

@Truesight, I'll have to watch it a bit later, my work blockers prevent youtube from coming through in the office.  I figure HQ and two troops will be a good start!  I just want to have some direction as the new rules-sets are a bit convoluted at first glance. 

 

Are there any major differences between the IA books and the GW issues?  What are some of the differences in playstyles that can be seen in each of those?  Does anyone have a preference?

[WarriorFish]

Welcome to the Guard Storm and back to the hobby Sounds like you want a more elite force, how competitive would you like to be? Scions are lacking the full complement of units but that doesn't mean they don't work - just means you need to play smarter That aside they make good allies and you can take some as part of a pure Guard force too. Otherwise you can take Veteran squads as part of a Guard army for a smaller army and tool them up. Carapace armour is a solid option but forward sentries and demolitions give them good options.

 

My preference is for the Guard codex, it's the most up to date and supported and you can't go wrong with it. Where others have their particular themes (Elysians are fragile drop troops, DKoK artillery or infantry) the Guard codex has a nice balance and good options for trying out lots of different play styles/armies. It's also safer for games in case you come across the odd player who isn't a fan of FW.

 

If you really want the Elysian style then as libris said their FW books are the best way. Otherwise I think the Scion rules can do a fair impression, and the Guard can do a basic one with flyers but not great (Kriegers not at all!). The only caveat I'd add is that while awesome the Elysians are not a particular competitive army so take that into account if you go with them.

As a general rule to getting started on the Guard I've come up with the following expert's guide:

• Join the B&C and post in the barracks
• Decide what style models you want to use (be aware the Catachan infantry squad are a little long in the tooth, and the FW stuff while awesome gets expensive fast)
• Decide what type of army you might like to build (infantry, artillery, tank or a hybrid of any/all!)
• Pick a colour scheme and/or start a WIP topic in the barracks

From there you can gather more opinions and ideas, unlocking the following secret stages:

• When in doubt get more Guardsmen
• Disregard point 3 as your Guard army expands relentlessly
• The commissariat is always right

Couldn't be simpler! Anything else let us know

[M@verik115]

Final secret stage:

Accept that the Guard are rarer than space marines and do not be fazed when you kill 10 marines for every dead guardsmen. 

[Stormthroe]

@WarriorFish,

 

I appreciate it man, its good to be returning; my girlfriend isn't too happy that my home is now cluttered with models, paints, and the floor is covered in plastic shavings, but I find it almost therapeutic to be doing again. 

 

Playing smarter has always been my thing; smart tactics and clever strategy will beat out the most rock solid units or list build any day, though there are always units that are better than others.  I am really looking for a force that can be competitive if I take it to a tournament, at least enough to win, without straying too far from that alpha-strike force.  I'd really like to avoid allies if possible, if only because I HATED painting marine models (chaos or loyalist, didn't matter) back when I played from before. 

 

I don't mind playing Astra Militarum at all; however, I still want to maintain that alpha strike feel with the army as I play, which I know can be done with the basic Guard codex, but the huge blobs of troops will still be necessary there. 

 

Work is over!  I'll continue this post in an hour when I can get on from home.

[WarriorFish]

Guard is for life; you can always get a new girlfriend A good thing about the Guard is that it is very easy to use your models for different codices - a Guardsman with a melta is the same wherever you put him the only difference is in what you decide to do to make your Vets stand out usually. So you can use the Elysian stuff for casual games and take them to a tourney with a different one. That said, while the Elysians are more for being cool than being good on the table top (by FW's own admission no less) the current Guard codex is middle tier.

 

That's not to say the codex is bad of course, we'd be looking at upper middle if anything, but some of the more recent books have some real punch and annoying deathstar-esque tricks to pull. Our codex has a few good units but none are stand out amazing so combined arms is the way to go, and I like the mantra of "boys before toys". Guard's strength is numbers and fire power after all and the two are strongly linked, so some things do stay the same

 

I'm sure you'll have much cud to chew as you look into more just let us know if you have any questions, or would like some suggestions. I can guarantee that whatever you ask someone can help you out

[Stormthroe]

Definitely!

 

The combined arms approach is definitely the direction I'm headed, its served me well for years in terms of life and gaming.  Tanks don't last long without infantry to support them and keep the peons off them; infantry doesn't last long without armor or close air support to take care of the harder stuff.  

 

After the discussion here, I'll still be doing Elysians, but I may branch into Cadians and have my Elysians serve as my vets and Stormtroopers.  Let's me get the best of all worlds; I get to treat the Elysians as the badarses they are, while still having the bodies to keep up.  As much as I'd love to have an entire force of Elysians on the table, my wallet and my tactics both thank me for this decision I feel.

 

As far as competitiveness, I've seen it all; tactics and strategy are always key to wargames.  Even though I was away from the hobby, we still did wargames pretty often as tactical practice so I've still been "playing," so to speak.  Regardless of top, middle, or bottom tier, a good commander can still win the day with a subpar force if his strategy is strong enough.  No worries there ^.^

 

I figure, a pair of cadian defense forces and some  Elysians as my Vets give me a good base force with some options to play with as we move forward.  I can see the headlines now; the 117th Cadian Shock Troops Regiment and the 13th "Black 13th" Elysian Special Operations Detachment.  Has a ring to it, yeah?