himkano Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I just got 5 imperial knights for a trade, and was wondering how to paint them. I have the older codex, and I have read several sources online, but cannot find the answer to this question... Are all combatants Imperial Knights? I have seen references that knights give houses an advantage in war, which seems to imply that knights, as rare as they (kind of) are, just the elite - the noble cavalry in a much larger army made of commoners. Is there any truth to this? Given the fuedal organization, I thought it might be cool to have an army where each Knight comes with a retinue (in his house colors) of Space Marines or Imperial Guard (The warlord will be a knight, and how many vassals and accompanying retinues would depend on the number of points in the game), Given the source material that I could find, I am not sure that this would be fluffy (not that I am super fluffy by nature, but when you start dropping Imperial Knights on the table, I think having some fluff justification / limitation might make it more fun). So my questions are - is this fluffy according to what is known about the knight worlds? If so, what would be appropriate - Imperial Guard seems plausibly low tech, but I have a lot of marines (so, so many), could a Knight world conceivable have a force of troops in power armor with bolters, and some rhinos / other space marine stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 No, Space Marines are separate entities of the Imperium. The Knight Houses should not have any power over them. However there could be ancient pacts between a Knight House and a Chapter/Legion similar to the deal between the Space Wolves and (Navigator) House Belisarius. Even if certain chapter assets were under the control of the house, a couple of marines would not be enough to defend a Knight World. They would just be another form of elite forces which would contribute to the defence. The main army would be something like the PDF. So IMHO space marines would rather lend a house aid on occasion and vice versa than being part of the house's forces. Nuclear Fridge and Lucien Eilam 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Usual proviso of "it's your hobby, do what you want", but I don't think there's any precedent for the above in the published background, and it runs directly counter to their main theme. So my questions are - is this fluffy according to what is known about the knight worlds? Not really, no. For the most part, the Knights are their defence. That's the whole point, the entire basis of their society. I can't remember any mention of Nobles or Consorts even being accompanied by armed guards.Knight Worlds are pretty sparsely populated by Imperial standards, and have hundreds of heavily armed super-heavy walkers protecting them. They don't really need any other standing army. If the Knights weren't enough, they would be reinforced by the rest of the Imperium.On a Knight World, if you're not a Noble, a Consort or a Sacristan, you're basically a peasant farmer or miner, something of that sort. Maybe they'd pick up a las-lock or something in times of dire need, forming a sort of militia or PDF, but they're not soldiers with armoured vehicles. could a Knight world conceivable have a force of troops in power armor with bolters, and some rhinos / other space marine stuff? Not really, and certainly not looking like that - Space Marine power armour didn't even exist during the millennia the Knight Worlds were becoming Knight Worlds. Rather than a subservient retinue of Space Marines, a more appropriate solution would be a DIY Knightly House and Space Marine Chapter that maintain some sort of close association, like the Oathsworn Knights of House Hawkshroud. There's even precedent for Knightly Houses changing their colours, in the Mechanicum-aligned Houses and House Cadmus. Maybe the Knights' introduction to the Imperium was being saved from the brink of extinction by the intervention of the Marines, something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himkano Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 Thanks for the feedback. I have over 500 space marines and vehicles, painted in about 10 different color schemes (some I painted, some I bought that way), and I was hoping to find inspiration to bring them all under one color-scheme umbrella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 It would not be unreadonable for a Marine Chapter to recruit from a Knight world, if the Nobles were oathbound to assist in such recruiting. However, Knight worlds are not Imperial worlds, nor are they Mechanicum worlds. A Noble of a Knight world has the same sovereignty as a Imperial High Lord or Mechanicum Tech Priest. We know from twenty years of fluff that Knight are their own PDF, that the Knights we see assisting Imperial and AdMech forces are on loan, and that Knights rarely Crusade without prior oaths having been sworn. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 To say a knight world wouldn't have some other form of defense aside from just the knights is a little absurd if you ask me. Im sure they have armed guards for the knights to ward off assasination attempts, a PDF supplemented with Imperial weapons and vehicles in order to support the knights, and anti-ship ground based weapons to ward off invaders. Sure there wouldn't be a large Imperial guard garrison, but definitely a small base with an Imperial embassy nearby. However a Mechanicus alligned planet would have a large Mechanicus presence, considering how jealously they guard technology. I'm sure these planets would be the best supported while sacrificing a bit of autonomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Why are you sure of this, when it runs counter to literally every description of Knights and Knight Worlds in GW publications? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Commander Macarian Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Well, I do have to wonder how Knights are going to prevent a fleet from bombarding the planet from orbit. I would at least think a Knight World has defence batteries and/or orbital stations. On Mechanicum alinged worlds those would be manned by servitors but I can imagine on Imperial aligned Knight Worlds some type of Men-at-arms would man those batteries. From there it's not really a stretch to consider the Knights having a small military to patrol the settlements, guard supplies, man the walls of their keeps, keep the consorts and sacristans safe from assassins etc. More like a heavily armed police force rather than a proper military. So, no tanks/flyers other than transports, no heavy guns. Ogryns could work as Riot Police, someone has to rough those peasants up a bit when they start complaining about the third tax raise this week. Ungrateful peons Space Marines are more difficult angle, still nothing is impossible. Say a Marine Chapter deploys to a Knight World to save the World, a warp storm rolls in and the Marines and Knights are trapped for a millenia forced to fight for their survival. After the Warp Storm dissipates, the force that comes out is a mixture of Knight House and Space Marine Chapter. Or stay within Games Workshop Canon (if such a thing truly exists) and just say the Chapter and Knight House like each other so much they have sworn oaths to help each other. Sounds a bit bland to me but there you have it Edited September 30, 2015 by Lord-Commander Macarian walter h 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Per Knight fluff, Knight world populations shelter inside their fortresses, which are their original colony ships, grounded and built upon to form defensive bastions. It is the Knights that go out to herd the megafauna, that patrol their lands, and that defend their gated. There are no "peasants" as we think of them, there are only Nobles that ride around in Mecha armor protecting the herd while Mechanicum servitors tend to the agriculture and mining. Knight worlds tend to be Death worlds tamed by tge original colonist, and turned into a fantasy realm for their medevil LARPer descendants. We know that the reason why Knight worfds appear culturally homogeneous despite millennia of isolation from each other has to do with the way the control thrones were programmed, which was that in order to prevent power hungry malcontents from seizing control, the thrones select their pilots for loyalty and bravery, which caused those values to become socially dominate traits within Noble society. So, no PDF, no peasants, just monstrous fortresses and anime influenced SCA. SJ Lord-Commander Macarian and librisrouge 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Well they are feudal worlds, and not everyone in the population is a knight, so I would assume you have your Knights, and you have your regular population (peasants). Your peasants could be levied if you really needed them, but your core army will be knights. When not in the armor, but in the safety of their shelter, they will clearly need someone to guard the rulers. I would assume the personal body guard of the unarmored ruler are just unarmored knights. When they go into combat, they all armor back up. So the regular, non-knight people would only fight if it were as a last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdeath Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 You could always have your Knight House be tasked (by their pacts with the Mechanicus) to be part of an expedition force of Space Marines, Ad Mech and even Titan Legios. That's the route I went and it has some plausibility with the fluff I've read up on. You could even have a group of Scions made up of sons who weren't quite suited for Knight training as well. The important thing is to have fun! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 How would a Household defend itself if the enemy breached their fortress? Are all of the rooms and corridors Knight-sized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Don't try to apply logic to 40K. It will only frustrate you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 All I'm saying is that lack of evidence doesn't prove non-existance, and you don't have to follow canon into absurdity. Arkangilos and BassWave 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Exactly. Nothing says the only warriors are the Knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Why are you sure of this, when it runs counter to literally every description of Knights and Knight Worlds in GW publications? A knight house is a powerful asset. As such their homeworlds would be high priority targets for enemies. Without any of the defenses I described, xenos/chaos would rofl stomp the house into oblivion. Knights wouldn't be relevant. Also, one shouldn't assume that just because the lore doesn't mention something, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Otherwise there is a severe lack of toilets in the 41st millennium... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The thing is, we are told how Nobles defend their worlds, and it isn't via the standard Imperial paradigm of PDF and Chapter. Its with their Knight Titans. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Also, one shouldn't assume that just because the lore doesn't mention something, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Otherwise there is a severe lack of toilets in the 41st millennium... There's onee that we know of but it's been occupied for 10,000 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 It's about time someone flushes that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The thing is, we are told how Nobles defend their worlds, and it isn't via the standard Imperial paradigm of PDF and Chapter. Its with their Knight Titans. SJ No one said that they don't use Knights to defend their worlds. Just that maybe there's more to it than that. Unless their entire infrastructure is built with 50 ft tall ceilings, there has to be some form of standard infantry running around. Call them an honor guard, or an internal security force, what have you. Otherwise, what are they going to do - ask nicely for enemies to walk out into the street where they can stomp them? Demolish entire buildings to get to a handful of insurgents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 There is a "Standard" military, and it is their Noble population. Every Noble is a warrior, regardless of what armor they are wearing. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 There you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) I think i need to re-read Vengeful Spirit, but afaik House Devine had support infantry if i remember it right ... also House AErthegn (or whoever it is spelled) has infantry troops afaik (i'll re-read Conquest asap)^^ Edit: Via Conquest: "In the years before their unification, the Wraekan Dreor were thought to have operated well over 150 Knights, supported by a large force of marauder infantry and slave-catchers aboard shuttlecraft and other small interface vehicles." Edited October 1, 2015 by Atia Arkangilos 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I think i need to re-read Vengeful Spirit, but afaik House Devine had support infantry if i remember it right ... also House AErthegn (or whoever it is spelled) has infantry troops afaik (i'll re-read Conquest asap)^^ Edit: Via Conquest: "In the years before their unification, the Wraekan Dreor were thought to have operated well over 150 Knights, supported by a large force of marauder infantry and slave-catchers aboard shuttlecraft and other small interface vehicles." Those be allies. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Source that they are just allies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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