Greyspell Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Hello, Please forgive any editing, I'm on mobile. Now that everyone has had time to field test the Skitarii I felt that it was time for a very frank discussion about their units. Hopefully we can get a good discussion going. I would like to kick off with a few of my own feelings about our forces. Vanguard You know them, you love them. I have yet to meet a player who has any real gripes with our radiation drenched foot soldier. Personally I find a balance of 2 special weapons (arc or plasma) works best but stock is also cheap and effective. Ranger I have had good results running these guys stock but for 25pts a pop I have yet to see the transuranic arquebus perform - has anyone had any luck with our sniper rifle? Ruststalkers I just can't seem to get these boys into combat and when I do they never last long enough to use their ap2 attacks on the second round when combating dedicated cc targets. Any thoughts on this? Infiltrators Work well against hordes and jive nicely with vanguard but I do feel they are a tad pricey. Dragoons The melee option seems to be preferred by most but I have had little experience with either. The lack of AP on the Lance looks like it could be a let down. Thoughts? Ballistarii My surprise winner. I have been running them in groups of two. Their decent range and loveable TL guns allows them to harass the opponent into a fury. I have not tried the lascannon option as yet. Onager A great and flexible unit. However, I do have one gripe. Opponents hate them, especially with neutron guns which makes them a high priority target. In order to protect their 12 armour I try to group them into 3 but this places 3 neutrons only able to target one unit - usually overkill and limiting my ability to threaten multiple targets. Anyone have similar issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I've been doing really well at 1000pts with: 30 Vanguard 5 Rusts 3 Dragoons 3 Onagers Edit - Vanguards (cheap and lots of shots to overcome invuls), Neutron Onagers and Lance Dragoons are the real winners for me. The Rusts are expensive but I keep them in reserve to CC either vehicles or infantry in an emergency 6 Dragoons in a War Convocation are devastating. With Canticles, they would use Shrouded+Stealth on the approach then Invul on the Charge then Strength or Reroll to Hit on the 2nd turn of CC. Further edit - Even with no AP Dragoons put out a lot of attacks to overcome both armor and Invul saves. My War Convo 6 Dragoons made 6 HoW hits then another some 24 (+2 for ea. 6) hits on charge against an SM Honor Guard squad (armed with all power swords and one power fist) and killed all of them short of the leader in 1 turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munocat Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 With the war convocation i give my tech priest dominus The Scyerskull relic that allows reroll armor pins against a chosen vehicle each turn, this is amazing with the arquebus. Strength 4+2d6 with reroll armor bane is awesome. I have had some success with the ruststalkers, but against softer targets, with no AP 4 or better melee. The dragoon rock against vehicles. I use them to take out dreadnoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Ranger I have had good results running these guys stock but for 25pts a pop I have yet to see the transuranic arquebus perform - has anyone had any luck with our sniper rifle? I've had decent results with picking Characters and specialists out of large blobs. The former is nice when it comes time for leadership-based checks, and the latter for covering other units operating nearby. I'll typically run a single unit of five with two arquebuses, maybe a full unit with three in larger games, but I rely on the Vanguard for most of the heavy lifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindOfMetal Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Had lots of fun with my infiltrators, one of the stand out units in my army. Have taken out assault terminators in combat, grey knight terminators and paladins, daemonkin units-the sheer number of attacks they can pump out has always worked well for me. Have even used them to hold up about 1500pts worth of Orks for a turn-charged and wiped out a unit of lootas in a building, then had most of the ork army try to shoot them. Even the games they've not gotten into combat, they end up being a distraction and allowing my other units to perform better. Ruststalkers I've found to be a bit lacklustre by comparison, tend to use them as a countercharge unit-something charges my vanguard or rangers will then get charged by the ruststalkers. Always found that its a bad idea to hunt down full strength melee units with these guys. The dragoon isn't bad, only used a solo one (out of all the skitarii models this is the one I like the least, didn't enjoy building or painting it) but have enjoyed transport hunting or small unit hunting with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Walkers are what made me even look at admech, and they haven't failed. Ballistarii: They work perfectly. I run them as single objective capturing units. Long range they cover the field so each one can do something in completely random places on the map, and still find a shot to take out flier when needed. They also help clean out transports. Las cannon i try repeatedly, and it works, but you just always wanting that extra shot. Throwing 1 Dice at anything feels petty. Also running them in pairs or more feels kinda bad.... as they only have 2 HP, Open topped, and armour 11. Anything that shoots at these guys are gonna blow it up. So everyone will also ahve a chance to also wound it's friend. Just running one makes them safer. Dragoon: Have no AP because they attack at I6 which means you always start combat as max strength. Additionally, you take abit less of beating back becuase you've killed thier stuff first (a lot of the time atleast). They work great because they are cheap and can make most enemy combat units sweat due to the cost effectiveness. Even if you run into a bunch of thunder wolves you gotta realize your attacking first so they always get thier damage in. 3+ vanilla you can throw at anything and you wont feel bad. Onager: I usually run cohort + something. So i dont usually have the space for one of these. Ever game i've seen they either just win because the enemy doesn't have what it takes to blow up one of these and a unit of dragoons (or a knight). Or the onager just gets popped and forgotten. So it's based more on your enemies ability to deal with it. I guess you mainly need this + some other threat because if one dies the other will win it for you. Onagers work great with other Onagers. Saddly takes up ballistri slot. Vanguard: Yes...... .... oh??/ More needs to be said??? Who needs AP2 when you throw your whole box of dice at the problem??? That said the plasma caliver is good with or with out the warlord due to 2 turns of rerolling 1s due to doctrines. Also these units wont be around for more than 2 turns. If they are you've won the game, your just waiting for your opponents to figure it out. Rangers: Unlike the above units who give you just sooo much value for the points you put in. These guys bring better boltguns. I don't know they just lack the punch the other units have. I guess your trading it for range and safety??? but then why not bring a ballistarii. Ruststalker: Buy infiltrators Infiltrators: They are like the onager, but in a much more dangerous situation. They need to be put in the perfect spot. These also don't work well if your also gonna take an onager. These are squishy (relatively), and the onager is a annoying vehicle. The idea of both units is that it's either gonna get focused turn 1 or destroy the whole enemy army. As such both these guys are destroyed by different weapons, meaning they will both die and you'll lose your army's corner stone. I recommend taking infiltrators with dragoons or more infiltrators. If your running pure skits. You gotta think about your corner stones. Take infiltrators(corner stone/sweep) and dragoons(corner stone/sweep) for a strong melee list supported by vanguards(soften army/AP2) and balistri (AA/ scoring units/tranport hunter). Maybe back line rangers but ballistri can do this too. Take multiple onagers(sweepers): 2 units of 2 or just 4 indepent ones. Dragoons (scoring), Vanguard (anti-anti-vehicle), Ballistri (AA/ scoring) Allies: Take dragoons (scoring, Threat), Vanguards(AP2/ Vehicle hunter), and ballistri(scoring/AA/tranport hunter) as needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyspell Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm really enjoying reading everyone's input. I think it may be worth accepting that running Onager's in 3's limits their targeting options too severely and is very expensive. I feel running in twos will probably give the best balance of defense and threat without putting too many points into one basket. Anyone else feel the same or have an alternative take? Whilst on the subject of Onagers. I have had situational success with the Icarus array as I am sure many of you have. However, has anyone had good results with the other two Onager options? (Phosphor and eradication). How about vehicle equipment, how do you feel about the Mindscanner probe and cognis manipulator? I feel the stubber and smoke launchers are affordable enough to be per taste. Running Bailistarii in ones might be a smart move and it sounds like I need to give the Dragoon a good chance. Has anyone had any luck with the Radium Jezzail? Also, does anyone else feel that it's a bit of a shame that we have no vehicle equipment options for the Walkers? Especially since the IG walkers get so many nice choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 My experiences: Vanguard: ah, my radiation spewing friends, scares a fare few of my opponents :) great against nearly every target once i get them all in range, usually i add an omnispex and a special for added fun. Rangers: havent used them as much, but still find them nasty against certain opponents with their great range and decent AP. Dunestriders/ Dragoons: have had good experiences with the Dunestriders and their twin-linked goodness :) havent tried dragoons yet. Onager: find these to be fragile and nasty, only got two of these and so far only used them with Neutron lasers, would like to try out the Icarus Array at some point. Infiltrators: had really good experiences with, making messes of eldar and necron opponents who underestimated the number of attacks and speed of them. Rust-stalkers: i have a unit but yet to use them. Overall very good experiences with the Skitarri which is the main part of my ad-mech force with cult allies and soon to be finished Knight allies :) just wish i had some transport options to get my vanguard and other stuff in closer. This discussion has been interesting maybe we could do a cult mechanicus one as well :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm really enjoying reading everyone's input. I think it may be worth accepting that running Onager's in 3's limits their targeting options too severely and is very expensive. I feel running in twos will probably give the best balance of defense and threat without putting too many points into one basket. Anyone else feel the same or have an alternative take? Whilst on the subject of Onagers. I have had situational success with the Icarus array as I am sure many of you have. However, has anyone had good results with the other two Onager options? (Phosphor and eradication). How about vehicle equipment, how do you feel about the Mindscanner probe and cognis manipulator? I feel the stubber and smoke launchers are affordable enough to be per taste. The E-blast thing is very situation ion, and its more about the enemy army you phase. The high strength shot requires you to be close to something. So most other vehicles will just laugh at you. While the big blast want you to be far so nid swarms and green tides don't care. Skimmers will just cuddle you walker and shoot the rest of your army. Only thing its good against on paper is imperial guard. This said I've never used it, so maybe the proof is in the pudding. The phone blaster/cognis I have used and I realized it make them a much... Much worse kastelans. You have a better chance to hit, but your car more vulnerable. So you pay about 35 points less for about 50-60 points less in effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 i would much rather have a high strength blast all the time than a random blast depending on distance, the blaster like mmimzie said is better left on kastellans. i like the extra heavy stubber if I have the points, cheap extra fire-power to go with the one already with the neutron laser. I like the cognis manipulator but only if I have the spare points, but haven't tried upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I was curious to see if Kastellan was really a better phosphor unit. By my calculations, the Kastellan averages 36 points per successful PB hit. Onager averages 39 points per successful hit. That's pretty dang close, especially when it doesn't consider the cost of the datasmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindOfMetal Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The main thing I would say is the survivability and utility of the Kastelan compared to the Onager for Phosphor. Kastelan are better in combat and because they are monstrous, a lot tougher to wipe out than vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Against most armies, the Kastellan will win out due to their sheer staying power. Sure, GK wipe the floor with them, but Eldar and Tau struggle to remove them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindOfMetal Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 That and you have all the relic based stuff you can do with them. Tend to prefer Onagers as anti air/tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'day a kastelans our survived an onager with out FNP so when you add FNP and the ability to 1.5 fire your weapons. The kastelans come out on top phospher whise. Also the kastelans don't have to worry about penatration results table such as weapon destroyed, exploding, or immobilized. Further more the kastelans are great in melee even if they Re punching folks with thier guns, and the Smith is like a captain or something with all his attack and power weapon. One thing I will say is I do almost never put the kastelans in double fire mode. I really hate bricking them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Really a big fan of Infiltrators - super unique pistols and shock sticks? Sign me up. Would love to pair them with gauntlet electro priests for the ultimate dice roll boogaloo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 do enjoy the sheer amount of dice even a basic unit of inflitrators get :) taser goads and fletchette blasters every time, i don't even really consider the option from tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Really a big fan of Infiltrators - super unique pistols and shock sticks? Sign me up. Would love to pair them with gauntlet electro priests for the ultimate dice roll boogaloo. Love this. Even more so if you put the priest in pods or even more fun land speed storms!! Infiltrators are also the best Phosphoenix carriers give them some AP to take out some tough stuff. also... does anyone else wish kastelans could get a Pater Radium ^.^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 You can't put anything but scouts in a LS Storm :( it sucks I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Just a preference thing but I prefer Dragoons over Infils for close combat. The main reason I take Rusts is for their Haywire Grenades. I realize that Neutron Onagers and Arc Vanguards can cover the anti tank but for some reason I like a "third option" in a Knight heavy meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Just a preference thing but I prefer Dragoons over Infils for close combat. The main reason I take Rusts is for their Haywire Grenades. I realize that Neutron Onagers and Arc Vanguards can cover the anti tank but for some reason I like a "third option" in a Knight heavy meta. I know the focus is on skits, but for Anti-Tank amongst Ad Mech I really like the Holy Requisitioner Formation: 1D4Chan: A Dominus joins 2-3 Kataphron Breacher squads and give them the Deep Strike rule, but the Tech-Priest never scatters so long as he arrives within 6" of an objective marker and the Breachers wont scatter if they arive within 6" of the Tech-Priest. Also, they gain the Zealot and Counter-Attack special rules while within 6" of an objective marker. Keep in mind that they can still Deep Strike where ever and seperate, they just scatter normal. Give them Torsion Cannons and if your opponents riptide doesn't have a toe in cover its as good as dead. To which I add, give them the Heavy Arc rifles, strike in on an opponents objective and melt that tasty rear armour. Wonderful. Plus as they have the 3+, T5, 2W that the Dominus can repair and he can tank with 2+/4++ it get's very strong. You can go even further with the Relic too: Give the Unit IWND from Arkhan Land's pimp cane. Give them all BS2 Snapshots - goodbye flyers! Super Scryer Skull to re-roll armour pens/ glances The Powerglove to just plain flacon punch some enemy armour - Or repair a friendly knight - Or Falcon punch an enemy knight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Rangers: Unlike the above units who give you just sooo much value for the points you put in. These guys bring better boltguns. I don't know they just lack the punch the other units have. I guess your trading it for range and safety? No, they bring Precision Shots and Move Through Cover, making it very easy to hover around the 15" mark double-tapping wounds onto key models from cover. Squad for squad, they'll average fewer wounds than Vanguard, but with a better chance of killing the right things. Would you rather kill one extra bolter Marine, or remove their plasma gun? That's what Rangers are for. Upgrading them mostly makes them worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Rangers: Unlike the above units who give you just sooo much value for the points you put in. These guys bring better boltguns. I don't know they just lack the punch the other units have. I guess your trading it for range and safety? No, they bring Precision Shots and Move Through Cover, making it very easy to hover around the 15" mark double-tapping wounds onto key models from cover. Squad for squad, they'll average fewer wounds than Vanguard, but with a better chance of killing the right things. Would you rather kill one extra bolter Marine, or remove their plasma gun? That's what Rangers are for. Upgrading them mostly makes them worse. They are good against special weapons, but that's about it. By good though its more... if you roll 6s after getting within 15" so you can take two shots than yeah it's alright. Though yeah i guess with 10 and in 15" your bound to get a few 6s actually. This kind of limits them to being situationally good against imperial forces. Hmmmmm i've become quit the fan of plasma calivers. i wonder if rangers would do better with them. The precision is too situational, but move through cover would be nice to help get the guns in the right place. Hmmm though i think i'd still rather the better rad guns as they doon't care what your toughness is they pretty much always wound on a 5+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Since Vanguard actually have a decent debuff in close combat with the radiation aura and short ranged assault guns, is it worth taking a close combat weapon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindOfMetal Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I tend to give my Vanguard alpha a power weapon with no pistol, tend to find the 3 shots from the carbine is better than an extra attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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