Father Mehman Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 During my sabbatical away from the B&C I learned many things. Most of these things are not strictly 40k related so they will stay locked away in the attic. Others will impact the ways I paint for, well, forever. This brings me to my question: is there a right or wrong way to go about filtering for weathering models- mainly tanks? What I've done so far entails taking a few drops of Lahmian Medium (around 12) and mixing it with just a bit of an earth tone colour (lightly graze the top of the paint with the handle of a paintbrush for the colour) and then putting this all over my model. Mig Jimenez (praise his name), in an article on another site, said the filter should be 5% colour and 95% thinner but he neglected to say whether or not it could be acrylic paint or just strictly oil paint. If the filter is supposed to be oil-based, do I need to first apply gloss varnish or can I go over my acrylic colours and be safe? On that point, I'm not sure what happens when oil-based paints interact with acrylic paints. If anyone could weigh in on that one I would be most appreciative. Back on topic: my acrylic filters, the first one a black and the second a brown made from Abaddon Black and Dryad Bark, respectively, are seemingly getting the job done in the weathering department but I want to make sure I'm doing it correctly. Although, the basic fact that it's working is good enough... still, I want to know if the filter should be oil-based. Also, I read an article on here from a few years back and someone brought up glazes. Let me be clear: I understand what a glaze is and this is not that. Its purpose is similar but also much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 If the filter is supposed to be oil-based, do I need to first apply gloss varnish or can I go over my acrylic colours and be safe? On that point, I'm not sure what happens when oil-based paints interact with acrylic paints. If anyone could weigh in on that one I would be most appreciative. if you use white spirit you should - and it's always good to protect the work you have already done before you do things like that :) (i think the only exception to that rule would be chipping medium^^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 "Doing it correctly" is whatever gives you the result you wanted. Use poster paints thinned with Scotch if it looks the way you want it to. Mig was probably using oils, but you don't have to. The big advantage of oil paint is that it cures very slowly, and can be easily cleaned off areas you don't want it (assuming you varnished them first), which is particularly useful with the wide, flat areas of tanks which would otherwise be prone to tide marks. It's mostly about the process, the end result won't look radically different from acrylic, or enamel, or anything else. Oil paint itself won't damage acrylics, but turpentine (or whatever substitute you're using) will strip it eventually, especially if you're cleaning an oil wash off raised surfaces, or scrubbing through a layer for battle damage. With a filter, the turps will usually evaporate long before there's any risk to the paint below, but I'll usually varnish anyway just to be safe. Then if it doesn't look right, I can get rid of it. You shouldn't use a gloss varnish for a filter, incidentally - that will encourage it to act like a wash. Matt or satin is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Use poster paints thinned with Scotch if it looks the way you want it to. rofl made my day xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 Thanks to both of you! I would add a smiley face but I'm mobile and it never works out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffTibbetts Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I've seen lots of stuff about filters, but can I ask you what effect you're going for in this case? Seems to me that using it to represent a layer of dust or age works well on historical military models, but I think it might look a bit odd with GW or FW models. Now, modulating the color by selectively applying filters, that I understand. The way I read your first post made me think you were putting it on the entire model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 How are Modern and Historical models any different than GW or FW models? I mean, they're usually made better than GW models with more detail and accepted Third Party Suppliers for bits and bobs but that's another thing altogether. I'm very confused by the notion that a technique that works well on one model tank wouldn't work well on another. I've read material and have watched videos about detailing Modern tanks ad nauseum. Is all that information wasted on wargamers? The way I understand it from watching these videos and reading various websites and publications is that a filter goes over the entirety of the tank to give it a layer of dust and to age the vehicle. About this I am fairly certain. I've always considered selectively applying filters/washes/shades as something else. So, yes, I am putting filters over the whole vehicle to tie the camouflage together and add some weathering and age before I begin using weathering powders. I'm trying to get better at painting and staying within the GW and FW box isn't helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Shumway Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I think the idea was that since GW's model design is more cartoony, or "heroic", the painting style often reflects this (see the GW house style) with exaggeration of contrasts. On the other hand, ForgeWorld's painting style is much more gritty and realistic and more akin to historical modelers (see their two Masterclass books). It basically comes down to preference. I tend to prefer the FW style myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffTibbetts Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 How are Modern and Historical models any different than GW or FW models? I mean, they're usually made better than GW models with more detail and accepted Third Party Suppliers for bits and bobs but that's another thing altogether. I'm very confused by the notion that a technique that works well on one model tank wouldn't work well on another. I've read material and have watched videos about detailing Modern tanks ad nauseum. Is all that information wasted on wargamers? The way I understand it from watching these videos and reading various websites and publications is that a filter goes over the entirety of the tank to give it a layer of dust and to age the vehicle. About this I am fairly certain. I've always considered selectively applying filters/washes/shades as something else. So, yes, I am putting filters over the whole vehicle to tie the camouflage together and add some weathering and age before I begin using weathering powders. I'm trying to get better at painting and staying within the GW and FW box isn't helping. Yeah, I didn't mean that it wouldn't work because of some design issue, but rather as Gordon pointed out, it seems to work better with historical painting styles than GW styles. I should have been more clear. I used all kinds of scale and military model techniques on my Queen Bee Knight (paint chipping and texturing, oil paint weathering, pigment powders, inked Future gloss, etc.) but I still sort of held to a lot of the exaggerated highlighting and shading I normally use for infantry. I don't think a filter would have worked on her, for instance. I was trying to get a sense of how you were using it with the sort of styles a lot of us are used to. If you're taking a FW tank and painting it along the lines of a WWII tank, that makes perfect sense (and I'd love to see how it works out, they're very few and far between from what I've seen). Seems like I ruffled a feather but I honestly didn't mean to. I think wargamers can learn a LOT from other areas of modeling and I've been saying that for years. That's why I was curious how you were using filters, as it's been one technique I've not tried to adapt to my hobby. I agree completely that the way to better painting lies in pulling inspiration and stealing techniques from other hobbies. I think the idea was that since GW's model design is more cartoony, or "heroic", the painting style often reflects this (see the GW house style) with exaggeration of contrasts. On the other hand, ForgeWorld's painting style is much more gritty and realistic and more akin to historical modelers (see their two Masterclass books). It basically comes down to preference. I tend to prefer the FW style myself. Yeah, the Masterclass books are great! I think they do a good job of applying certain techniques to up the ante, but they still maintain a bit of the techniques we all know and love. Mig and other military modelers do some great stuff, but sometimes I think their style is too much for GW and FW stuff, hence my initial question, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 My next Knight will feature a whole slew of techniques not seen since the Dark Age of Technology, most of which you mentioned already. I hadn't thought about using inked Future gloss... we may have to talk about that later. Truth be told, I wanted to save some money so I made my own filters. I used acrylic paints instead of oil because the only colour I have is Burnt Umber. Although, that colour is all you need in most cases. Anyway, using a half pot of Lahmian Medium, I managed to filter this Chimera twice: one coat with black and one with brown. The results can be summed up this way: I hated the camouflage I put on the tank so much that it could have been an Ork. With both filters placed, I don't hate it anymore. One day, I'll start using different colours in the earth tone range to see what I can come up with. Until then, I'm just happy I figured out how to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffTibbetts Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Right on! Yeah, the Future trick is fantastic for grease and oil. Basically you take floor polish (has to be the right kind. They don't make Future anymore but you can still find it if you look online. I'm sure there's an alternative now but it's really important you get the right formula or it can remain tacky, yellow with age, etc. From there you can use it as a gloss with a brush or airbrush, and it works quite well. You can also tint it with anything from food coloring to, in my case, very old Citadel dark brown ink from the tall pots. Seems to take just about any color pretty well. I used my brown mixture as the last step of weathering, and it retains this really excellent "still wet" oil look. Check it out here if you like: http://tibbsforge.com/leg-weathering-finished/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 I'll have to give that a look. I wonder if the right mixture of gloss varnish, acrylic medium, and ink would work in its stead? Hmm. Well, that's another thread, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffTibbetts Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Yeah, I think any gloss might do the trick. Future is, on the other hand, and absolutely amazing tool to have at your disposal anyway and a bottle will last a very, very long time. It also smells wonderful, which is nice compared to some other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Shumway Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 If you live in the states it is sold as "pledge with future shine." Same formula as the old Future. You can pick up a 27oz. bottle at Walmart for like six bucks. Great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffTibbetts Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 If you live in the states it is sold as "pledge with future shine." Same formula as the old Future. You can pick up a 27oz. bottle at Walmart for like six bucks. Great stuff. I couldn't find that at my local... Did you buy it a long time ago? I heard they weren't making it with the "with Future shine" version anymore. Care to share a pic, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Shumway Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 If you live in the states it is sold as "pledge with future shine." Same formula as the old Future. You can pick up a 27oz. bottle at Walmart for like six bucks. Great stuff. Here is a link. The bottle changed the name but it's the same stuff. You can see on that page if it is at your local store or not. Otherwise you can order it. Amazon has it too, but last I looked it was more expensive. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Pledge-Floor-Care-27-fl-oz/15136693 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.