Charlo Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Evening Brothers! I have made the foray into heresy and tentatively decided I'll be going for the hardy Sons of Barbarus. Put this list together as it contains most of my favourite units to do with the DG in one list, what do we think? Hidden Content +++ DG (2500pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++ + HQ (395pts) + Deathshroud Terminator Squad (395pts) [3x Deathshroud Terminators, Land Raider Phobos, Melta Bombs] + Troops (950pts) + Legion Breacher Siege Squad (300pts) [2x Graviton Gun, 9x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox] Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Rad Grenades] Legion Heavy Support Squad (305pts) [9x Legion Space Marines, Missile Launchers] Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Melta Bombs] Legion Tactical Squad (345pts) [19x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon, Rad Grenades] + Heavy Support (730pts) + Grave Warden Terminator Squad (420pts) [2x Chainfist, 4x Grave Warden Terminator, Heavy Flamer with Chem-munitions, Land Raider Proteus] Chem-master [Deathshroud Power Scythe] Legion Artillery Tank Squadron (310pts) [Legion Medusa, Legion Medusa] + Legion + Legion Astartes [XIV: Death Guard] + Lord of War (425pts) + Mortarion the Reaper (425pts) Master of the Legion [The Reaping] Tactics: Okay so the 2 LR Surge forward and disengage the cargo when possible. GW Nuke what they can and bait a charge while the DS split off from Morty if necessary to charge two units. Breachers hold the line, stripping HP off things with Grav and causing trouble. Tacs are offensive and distraction, they just use MTC to get into a nice position and bolter things. Heavy support squad either drown things in saves with frag or murder MEQ/ Medium vehicles. Medusas bring the pie plates with the help of the nucinos floating around. I think at 3k this could start to shine with maybe a master of signal and some apoths plus some more big guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Hm, I was thinking a bit since we last spoke about it. Me sticking Apothecaries in everything that moves is just a personal tactic. Without works fine in most cases. However, those Breachers irk me a bit. Instead of those you could instead find 40pts elsewhere and play two 20man blob Tacs. Field presence is important for a slow army like that. Alternatively, three sets of 10 in Rhinos. You are Slow and you need coverage. That would be my advice ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Good shout. The Breachers irked me too, the grav is nice but then I'm wasting bolters. Will Experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I can't really find too much to change. Looks good and fluffy! - I wouldn't take the heavy flamer on the Grave Wardens - you lose 2 grenade shots each turn, and if they get charged you can Overwatch with the Death Clouds anyway (5D3 Toughness tests!). - You could also move 5 Tacticals over to the Breachers, giving you a 3rd Graviton gun and making both units a decent size. - No anti-air might be a problem. Quickest fix is adding Flakk to the HSS, but it's expensive. Do you face flyers much? I actually really like this list! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Imo you don't need to use the RoW at all for this list. All it's doing in this list is making your HSS score; you could have the exact same list (minus the rad nades) with a normal AoD FOC, in return you can't run, deepstrike, flat out and Fast Attack. This is pretty important as you have a large unit of breachers with grav, but no way to actually make the grav a threat as they don't have any maneuverability, same thing with your tac squad as they just sit there and move 6" a turn. Both are going to be massive pie plate targets as nothing feels better than killing high value 3+ armour, it would probably be better to run 10 man squads in transports or something to deter the barrage. No armoured ceramite on the raiders hurts a lot as they can now be 1 shot by melta, so are much more vulnerable. Really hurts their value as moving once doesn't cut it for a 250 point transport. The average turn 1 response to your list would probably be: -Dread pod close to your medusas (but more than 12" from the breachers) -Normal AT fire at your raiders (lascannons, grav rapiers, meltas, laser vindis) -Barrage on your HSS (medusas, scorpii) If they have a Typhon you can expect one of the following four units to explode: Tacs, Breachers, HSS, Medusas. However, I never like auto-assuming Lords of War so that's like the cherry on top of the already frustrating cake. If you drop the reaping, at the very least you can go 18" in one turn with your raiders and really turn up the pressure with Morty and his 10" portal gun ability, while also allowing your foot squads to run into position. All you lose is the rad and one scoring unit, but if my memory serves, you already have 4 so only 20%. Reaping only really seems to benefit when you can take full advantage of the non-compulsory HSS or somehow cheese completely with rad grenades, both of which seem to enjoy a higher points limit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 I shall do that with the heavy flamer, good advice! The troops choices I am a little stuck on. I'm considering two units of ten Tacs in rhinos really now. Adds more scoring (if Rhinos score in AND?) and keeps the dudes safe. Thing about the RoW is that I love it! It's the reason I want to play DG. Something about Rad grenades just speaks to me :P plus deathshroud wounding on 2s is just nice. Running isn't a big factor to me, I think if I get the Rhinos that will help that. Maybe then I'll have enough points left over for ceramite on the raiders too? Another idea I'm working on is a Preator and 3 man command squad on Jet bikes inspired by the four Horseman to lead this. Other than paragon blade and man reapers, what's the best way to run this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Nah, Rhinos don't score. And your Tacticals won't score if they're inside them either. As for what else is scoring - the Heavy Support do and the Deathshroud do: Grave Wardens don't unfortunately. Troops choices seem to be the biggest discussion out there. Many love 10-man Tacticals in a Rhino, maybe with a vexilla. Others love 20-man blobs with extra chainswords, Apothecaries and Chaplains. Very much dependent on your meta, your Legion and your personal preference. Power scythes are ok. Power fists are better, and they're the same price. Scythes are slightly better on Jetbike Characters than on anything else. But Chosen Warriors doesn't mean that Command Squads are Characters for all purposes, only for challenges. So basically, Command Squad members CANNOT take power scythes. :/ Scouting the Breachers forward with a Vigilator is a tried and true way to get the Graviton guns closer! And I'm glad you're sticking with The Reaping. Gives the army a point of difference! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 The command squad are characters in the rules, just read it :D so scythes should be no problem. I quite like that scout idea... Although I'll probably lose the breachers seeing how we go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I believe you're looking at Betrayal? That rule has been superceded by the LACAL sorry. "Chosen Warriors A model with this special rule may issue and accept Challenges as if it had the Character type. Note that this does not allow a model with this special rule to use any other rules associated with the Character type." Sorry man! :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 If you're looking for troops ideas and really want to use the Reaping, consider HSS with chem heavy flamers in Rhinos. Max squad size you'll need is something like 7 (hey, fluffy!) before it becomes too hard to put all the templates down. 225 pts/squad with rad 'nades and melta bombs on the sergeants, includes Rhino. -1T vs S5 shredding wall of death, scoring, move through cover. Vigilator/Graviton Breacher Scout trick is nice. Remember, even if you don't get them into range for turn 1, they still create a large Haywire threat bubble your opponent won't want to move vehicles into, and guess how many vehicles in 30k want to move forward to deploy cargo? Of course that's why it works best on AL/RG, but if you're going to use Graviton Breachers at all you probably want a Vigilator attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 It seems like its the fantasy of the reaping that really appeals to you, which I can totally understand as I lovvvve the concept of destroyers. That being said, it's not going to be realistic to get those results and the reason is that 90% of reaping lists are anti-synergistic in the sense that they want to use rad grenades and cool terminators, but just took the slowest RoW in the game. So at the moment your two melee troops have rad grenades. They don't have transports though and can't run. They will most likely never never get a charge off because they just can't go anywhere and people will for sure want to avoid getting into cc with 20 tacticals, unless its something that will win, rad grenades or no. The bit for the deathshroud is more likely as they have a transport (though its slower than usual), however, its also largely redundant as you'll usually have Morty with them. A possible solution is taking the barbaran thuribule on your main blob of melee guys (who aren't the deathshroud because mortarion is what's killing people). This way you get the cool -1 toughness aspect, your melee units have a better chance of getting to melee, you can run and go flat out, yadda yadda... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 I believe you're looking at Betrayal? That rule has been superceded by the LACAL sorry. "Chosen Warriors A model with this special rule may issue and accept Challenges as if it had the Character type. Note that this does not allow a model with this special rule to use any other rules associated with the Character type." Sorry man! :/ God damnit! I had a feeling this would be the case :P If you're looking for troops ideas and really want to use the Reaping, consider HSS with chem heavy flamers in Rhinos. Max squad size you'll need is something like 7 (hey, fluffy!) before it becomes too hard to put all the templates down. 225 pts/squad with rad 'nades and melta bombs on the sergeants, includes Rhino. -1T vs S5 shredding wall of death, scoring, move through cover. Vigilator/Graviton Breacher Scout trick is nice. Remember, even if you don't get them into range for turn 1, they still create a large Haywire threat bubble your opponent won't want to move vehicles into, and guess how many vehicles in 30k want to move forward to deploy cargo? Of course that's why it works best on AL/RG, but if you're going to use Graviton Breachers at all you probably want a Vigilator attached. Sadly it's the compulsory troops I'm having trouble with :( Vigilator is a great one though... It seems like its the fantasy of the reaping that really appeals to you, which I can totally understand as I lovvvve the concept of destroyers. That being said, it's not going to be realistic to get those results and the reason is that 90% of reaping lists are anti-synergistic in the sense that they want to use rad grenades and cool terminators, but just took the slowest RoW in the game. So at the moment your two melee troops have rad grenades. They don't have transports though and can't run. They will most likely never never get a charge off because they just can't go anywhere and people will for sure want to avoid getting into cc with 20 tacticals, unless its something that will win, rad grenades or no. The bit for the deathshroud is more likely as they have a transport (though its slower than usual), however, its also largely redundant as you'll usually have Morty with them. A possible solution is taking the barbaran thuribule on your main blob of melee guys (who aren't the deathshroud because mortarion is what's killing people). This way you get the cool -1 toughness aspect, your melee units have a better chance of getting to melee, you can run and go flat out, yadda yadda... Yeah, it's such a shame. Maybe I should redraft this as Pride? The Thurible doesn't affect ID though, which is a shame - although Morty already causes it and he's the only one who would really be benefiting from it anyway in that regard. If I'm going pride are Vets in rhinos good? I hear a lot of buzz about sniper ones. I could also incorporate some heavy flamers in there too with shred and possible ap2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 For Sallies and DG, Sniper Heavy Flamer Vet Squads are very much a thing. For DG being able to re-roll failed wounds and potentially get more Ap2 into the Pool is very much worth it, imo, though it does change the playstyle into more of a "Danger Close" type deal. Outside of ZM its Shredding and +1S Respectively but, in ZM, if the weapon already has Shred, they gain +1S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Yeah, I just want to avoid these guys turning into an analogue of my 40k BA, fast with lots of flame templates - so trying to focus on what's different. It's all good thought though. My legion isn't set in stone so maybe I'd be better off with turning this a little more shooty instead of counter-chargey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 If Grave Wardens count then maybe, I know there's some weirdness with red butchers. The vets could be really funny with sniper shred heavy flamers, especially since that's essentially what makes Mor Deythan so good, just toss them in a rhino and zoom them up the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Grave Wardens are Heavy Support so sadly they dont. Red Butchers do because they're Elites. The only weirdness is that they can never Score even though being shifted to troops means they can...? I'd honestly consider Drop Pods for DG HF Tac Vets. get right up in their Grill and Burninate some fools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Avoiding all forms of dropping - Too 40kesque for my tastes. My BA have like 5/6 pods so I'd rather change it up here :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think someone on the WE tactica was trying to argue that butchers weren't technically terminators or something. Never bothered to confirm. That being said, Deathshroud also aren't viable for Pride, though they still score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think someone on the WE tactica was trying to argue that butchers weren't technically terminators or something. Never bothered to confirm. That being said, Deathshroud also aren't viable for Pride, though they still score Deathshroud are another weird spot because they're HQ but can also be Taken as Elites, iirc? Which means they technically fill the requirements? AFB cant verify but thats what I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 HQ that can be taken instead of a command squad, so they don't take am HQ slot at that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 As far as I know DS are either a retinue or a single HQ choice on thier own. I really wish there was a suitable Way to use Mortug and Mortarion but it'd impossible as Morty has to be warlord... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Its double impossible because they're in two different factions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Who's the guy who gives 3 units infiltrate? Morturg? He's DG right? I know he's specifically loyalist but I didn't think that mattered too much in games outside of a campaign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Yeah, the Loyalist/Traitor limitation is mostly there for campaigns but, it does kinda feel weird to have them both in the same army even if they bought fought together and were on the same side at some point :p Depends on the era in which you play I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.