Slips Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 But, Krakk is S8. -1 for the flare shield = S7 vs av14 = no chance to glance since youd need a 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 .....But plus another one with Tank hunters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Tank hunter lets you reroll failed armor pens. Not +1 iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Yea +1 was 5th ed, I got changed to reroll in 6th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Yeah, as the boys said. We're way past 5th Edition now! Though my mates and I also get the rules mixed up between the editions... This is why people often have an anti-Spartan unit or 2. They need something like graviton weapons on Rapiers, Land Speeders, Breachers or Dreadnoughts. Another option is a Primaris-Lightning with 4 Kraken penetrator heavy missiles, Ground Tracking Auguries and Battle Servitor Control. It will end a Spartan in 1 round of shooting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 Okay, thanks for clearing that up, would've been nicer a few posts back when I first mentioned it though to avoid my double confuse xD I won't lie about being interested in the lightning, it sounds incredible on paper... Siege breaker seems like a waste then, as does the missile squad really. Will see what I can come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Remember that Siege Breakers give Tank Hunters to any Heavy Weapons in a Squad they join (at least to my interpretation to making them Suck less). Also, he gives you Phosphex Shells. 5" S5 Ap2 Poisoned 3+ Blast that stays in play and hinders units inside might be a good investment for you if you need to slow anything down / are facing Admech High T Units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Okay, thanks for clearing that up, would've been nicer a few posts back when I first mentioned it though to avoid my double confuse xD I won't lie about being interested in the lightning, it sounds incredible on paper... Siege breaker seems like a waste then, as does the missile squad really. Will see what I can come up with. Word of warning on the Lightnings, they rely on your reserve rolls. They may not come on when you need them. Which is why Graviton is still just the best way to go. Also, I've badmouthed missile squads a fair amount recently in the Death Guard tactics thread. Don't let that make you forget about them forever! If someone in your group starts spamming Castellax, via a Praevian or Taghmata, the Krak rounds are ok. Plus unless they're Reductor you're facing way less pie plates than a Legion or Solar Aux army so having an infantry support unit isn't so bad. Thanatars are still gonna do you in though. And the poison rounds with the frag come into their own if they try and deep strike melta Thallax. For your first general purpose list though, yes, you would do well to seek better options than MLs. ....and yeah, Siege Breakers do just kind of suck. I wish they didn't. I made a Durak Rask/could-be-a-generic Siege Breaker and everything, all he does is glamorize the shelf :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I've only succeeded fitting a Siege Breaker into a Xenocide Themed list mostly because he can Also Take Phosphex Bombs. Him + Destroyer Sarge means I can lob 2 of them A Turn if needed (SB+Moritat+Destroyer w/ JP under a Void Shield) while also shooting 1 Phosphex Medusa Shell in tandem with 2 Others... ...That and he can be a Compulsory HQ..so...theres that. If they update him to grant free Phosphex Shells to Medusae In Addition to their S10 Ap2 Shells then I think he'd be be a bit more Worth it. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 Yeah, the exchanging shells is a little silly when you are already paying for the character himself :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Lets hope they change that because he's the weakest of the Consuls ATM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 If they update him to grant free Phosphex Shells to Medusae In Addition to their S10 Ap2 Shells then I think he'd be be a bit more Worth it. Oh well. This will go a long way to making him more viable. As it is, I don't mind him at all! Like you said, he can be the compulsory HQ. He has a nuncio-vox too, which helps Barrage weapons in specialist armies that lack the standard Troops choices (Night Lords Terror Assault comes to mind). The "Art of Destruction" rule can really buff the right unit too! With Death Guard, he could be ok in a lascannon HSS, but I don't think there's as much scope for him. Shame really, as Durak Rask is cool, even if he is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 If you have a Culverin Squad slapping him onto them (unless your IF...they already gain TH), might give you some ok Anti Medium Armor with massive weight of fire. 40 S6 Tank Hunter shots has pretty good odds vs Av12 and weaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Okay, I've refined the list a little more. Medusas be gone as is the additional centurion consul, but that has saved me points on the Tacs as they don't need Nucino. Also dropped vexillia as they are stubborn and immune to fear anyway. If they are in combat they're already dead, it's ten Tacs. Following that I managed to add Artificer and a combi to each Tac squad, keeps them focused. Added in a destroyer squad and made the morty/shroud raider into a tooled spartan for more bullet magnet. Destroyers fit the fluff and the reaping perfectly - move through cover, Rad grenades, Phosphex and rad missiles. Beautiful. Also moar fast Melta bombs to wreck everything without a T value. Plus the missile squad is now full strength. I'm unsure about these guys still, as they can't touch the super heavies, but anything else they will certainly lay on the hurt. Plus poison frag for fun. Considering a laser Vindicator and other things instead but I like the backfield scoring missile squad :) Main anti tank is just lots of Melta bombs. Which I think works. +++ DG Reaping (2500pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++ + HQ (110pts) + Deathshroud Terminator Squad (110pts) [2x Deathshroud Terminators, Melta Bombs, Rad Grenades] + Troops (710pts) + Legion Heavy Support Squad (290pts) [9x Legion Space Marines, Missile Launchers] ····Legion Sergeant [Augury Scanner] Legion Tactical Squad (210pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bombs] Legion Tactical Squad (210pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bombs] + Elites (440pts) + Legion Destroyer Squad (440pts) [Jump Packs, 9x Legion Destroyer Space Marine, Melta Bombs, 2x Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web and Rad Missiles Only] ····Legion Destroyer Sergeant [Artificer Armour, 2x Phosphex Bombs, Rad Grenades] + Heavy Support (815pts) + Grave Warden Terminator Squad (475pts) [Chainfist, 4x Grave Warden Terminator] ····Chem-master [Deathshroud Power Scythe] ····Land Raider Phobos [Armoured Ceramite] Legion Spartan Assault Tank (340pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield] + Legion + Legion Astartes [XIV: Death Guard] + Lord of War (425pts) + Mortarion the Reaper (425pts) ····Master of the Legion [The Reaping] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 No one? ;) No one interested in the crazy xenocide I propose?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I like the list, destroyers are some thing I have skimmed over and only now realize how cool they are, rad missiles on a jump pack marine ! I have a primaris lighting on the way, a flyer with 2 sets of kraken missiles and a phosphex bomb cluster just sounds awesome. Once I get my first game in with it will give a review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Funnily enough I have an alternative list that is similar to this but with Typhon in the HQ slot and a lightning with Kraken to take out tanks.I don't like this list as much, it's mainly adding some anti tank and Choom at the expense of Mortarion. DO NOTE THIS IS A BACKUP LIST, NOT THE ONE I AM PRIMARILY WORKING ON IN THE TOPIC :) Hidden Content +++ DG Typhon (2500pts) +++++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) +++ HQ (550pts) +Calas Typhon (370pts)····Deathshroud Terminator Squad [4x Deathshroud Terminators]····Master of the Legion [The Reaping]Legion Centurion (180pts) [Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Power Armour, Refractor Field, Void Shield Harness, Volkite Serpenta, Volkite Serpenta]····Consul [Moritat]+ Troops (760pts) +Legion Heavy Support Squad (340pts) [9x Legion Space Marines, Volkite Culverin]····Legion Sergeant [Augury Scanner]Legion Tactical Squad (210pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bombs]Legion Tactical Squad (210pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bombs]+ Elites (440pts) +Legion Destroyer Squad (440pts) [Jump Packs, 9x Legion Destroyer Space Marine, Melta Bombs, 2x Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web and Rad Missiles Only]····Legion Destroyer Sergeant [Artificer Armour, 2x Phosphex Bombs, Rad Grenades]+ Fast Attack (230pts) +Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (230pts) [battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, Twin-linked Autocannon, 2x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles]+ Heavy Support (520pts) +Legion Spartan Assault Tank (365pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Chem-munitions, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield, Frag Assault Launchers, Twin-linked Heavy Flamer]Legion Vindicator (155pts) [Laser Destroyer Array, Machine Spirit]+ Legion +Legion Astartes [XIV: Death Guard] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The only one I've ever seen use the graviton guns on breachers is Hesh, and he brings a unit of 20 with a vigilator so he can infiltrate (alpha legion) and scout them into position for a first turn barrage. I'm not a fan, myself, they are slow as hell as it is. You can build them as armour/MC hunters with all the melta in an assault vehicle, but then you're spending 50 points more for the base unit than a similarly equipped unit of Veterans, except you trade 2 melee attacks and veteran skill for breaching shields and crap armour that only serves to slow you down. I am really hoping breachers will become cheaper in the next edition of the red book, same for the assault marines and destroyers. I think breachers would be fine at their current cost if they just got melta-bombs for free, and maybe even re-rolled all failed saves rather than just template/blast (siege mantlets I think is the rule?). As for destroyers, they are cool, but man, 40+ points per power armoured dude? Yeesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Eh, I swore off the breachers a while ago Terminus, I agreed they just aren't point effective. Mantlets would make then insanely sweet and fluffy! Destroyers are expensive but they get the job done imo. Super fluffy and flavourful. Yeah the unit gets deleted by a Typhon but what doesn't :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Can run the Destroyers out of a Rhino and fire the missiles out of the top hatch. Save beaucoup points. They're really not worth much if you're not expecting to see lots of Monstrous Creatures though. Without power weapons all of their assault-oriented rules like counter-attack and rad grenades don't do them much good. In the end they're still base 1 attack WS4 and vs other legions 2/3rds of their wounds caused get negated. The Reaping makes us a whole Legion of Destroyers anyway, why bother with these jokers? Rest of the list is shaping up though, liking it for the most part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Can run the Destroyers out of a Rhino and fire the missiles out of the top hatch. Save beaucoup points. They're really not worth much if you're not expecting to see lots of Monstrous Creatures though. Without power weapons all of their assault-oriented rules like counter-attack and rad grenades don't do them much good. In the end they're still base 1 attack WS4 and vs other legions 2/3rds of their wounds caused get negated. The Reaping makes us a whole Legion of Destroyers anyway, why bother with these jokers? Rest of the list is shaping up though, liking it for the most part Yeah I'm debating a rhino for them, just to add to the saturation of AV, but I think Jump Packs with move through cover works rather nicely :) If I had the points they'd get a proteus, but I want that for the wardens. What could I do to replace the HSS? I love love LOVE them fluff wise but for 300pts they seem a little underwhleming/ overcosted bar popping enemy rhinos/ dreads/ Preds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Well there are a lot of things you could do but then your army would be Choomless. The very thought... But just some ideas: Leviathan dual-grav bombard dreadnought is a little over 300 off the top of my head, or you could afford a Typhon if you swapped the Destroyers to a Rhino. x2 Medusas is around 300? But then I'd look into vox on the tacs and deploy them for barrage spotting so it's still more points. Another thing you could do is switch them to a smaller heavy flamer support squad in a rhino to increase the AV spam and give yourself another aggressive objective clearing/scoring unit aside from Typhon and the Deathshroud. Spare points made anywhere could be used to increase the # of Kraken Missiles on the Lightning and/or more Deathshroud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Ah - very sorry! I'm working to this list at the moment - the lightning one is a backup! And yes - this one is Choomless, but such is life. I love the Leviathan and would be tempted by it, but the Scoring HSS is such a nice touch of the reaping... Hidden Content +++ DG Reaping (2500pts) +++++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) +++ HQ (110pts) +Deathshroud Terminator Squad (110pts) [2x Deathshroud Terminators, Melta Bombs, Rad Grenades]+ Troops (710pts) +Legion Heavy Support Squad (290pts) [9x Legion Space Marines, Missile Launchers]····Legion Sergeant [Augury Scanner]Legion Tactical Squad (210pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bombs]Legion Tactical Squad (210pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bombs]+ Elites (440pts) +Legion Destroyer Squad (440pts) [Jump Packs, 9x Legion Destroyer Space Marine, Melta Bombs, 2x Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web and Rad Missiles Only]····Legion Destroyer Sergeant [Artificer Armour, 2x Phosphex Bombs, Rad Grenades]+ Heavy Support (815pts) +Grave Warden Terminator Squad (475pts) [Chainfist, 4x Grave Warden Terminator]····Chem-master [Deathshroud Power Scythe]····Land Raider Phobos [Armoured Ceramite]Legion Spartan Assault Tank (340pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield]+ Legion +Legion Astartes [XIV: Death Guard]+ Lord of War (425pts) +Mortarion the Reaper (425pts)····Master of the Legion [The Reaping] Okay i'll edit this post because I've had a thought... How about a Leviathan siege dread? The storm cannon gives me better anti light armour and it also lets me get a bit more Phosphex into the list, maybe even some choom. By removing the HSS, the combi's on the Tacs (which were a little useless anyway...) and the destroyer rad grenades, I can have: Leviathan Patter Siege Dreadnought (320pts) [Armored Ceramite, Phosphex Launcher, Leviathan Storm Cannon, Twin-Linked Volkite Caliver, Leviathan Siege Claw, Heavy Flamer] If I skip the choom I can add another chainfist to the Grave Wardens instead. Pros: Objectively harder to shift - HSS is just ten PA bodies, potentially in cover, whereas this beast is 13/13/12, 4HP with a 4++ More Dakka - 6 BS5 S7 sunder shots vs 10 BS4 S8 shots. Against most AV the damage output is the same if not better Fluffy - Chem Heavy Flamer & very good Phosphex gun Phosphex launcher will do more than the Tac combi's ever will comparatively for one shot weapons Gives a decent answer to 2W legion terminators/ Primarchs with the claw, HoW attacks and Phosphex Cons Less specialised - HSS Potentially more threat worthy - depending on what people see when facing a raider, spartan and Leviathan, opponents may chose to target it as the easiest to kill? Lose my Alphastrike protection - no auguary scanner Missile squad means any pods that come in could cause havoc in the rear, but with Ceramite on everything and the dread guarding the back, I cant see it being too much of an issue Lose a scoring unit, bringing my total down to three and leaving no one to be my dedicated back fieldies Missile squad get the poison missiles from Morty - not a big loss, but against a lot of high T infany couldve been useful. What do we think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Not sure I like it. Usually, people are prepared for Spartans or at least Raiders. Putting 300+ into one fairly slow model is a bit risky. That is how I think anyway. It is a damn beautiful model though and the rule of cool always wins ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Not sure I like it. Usually, people are prepared for Spartans or at least Raiders. Putting 300+ into one fairly slow model is a bit risky. That is how I think anyway. It is a damn beautiful model though and the rule of cool always wins ;) Solid point. My counter would be when faced with a Primarch and his terms in a spartan plus some more terms in a raider, would the levy be your target priority? He'd got a fair bit of range so should get some damage in before he's blown up and I think he's mega survivable... Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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