IL VIII - The Godslayers

[simison]

Possibly not. With the Harbingers potentially having access to the Fulmination discipline I've been re-considering alternate psychic disciplines. One option could be for the Godslayers in general to have a +1 to DtW rolls rather than Pariah rules and then their Psykers can only take from this discipline, which would be almost entirely defensive in nature (and obviously tailored to disrupt psychic powers). That gets around the need to write a new consul specifically for the legion and let the Suppressor unit be re-written relatively simply too (possibly psychic brotherhood with this new discipline?).

 

It also make it pretty straightforwards to do their post-fall rules. They'd swap their suppression for Nurgle psychic powers, or get nurgle as an additional option possibly.

 

So, are you talking about modifying the LA rules or this RoW?

[Grifftofer]

So, are you talking about modifying the LA rules or this RoW?

Technically both I guess. The main part was related to changing the LA rules by essentially replacing their Adamantium Will with a +1 to Deny Rolls and access to a unique discipline for their Psykers. However this would also knock on to the Rite because as you've said they won't have access to Nemesis consuls anymore. However rather than making a unique consul to fill the void my way would replace the Nemesis with a Librarian who would fill the same role as the new consul you suggested by virtue of only being allowed powers from this 'Suppression' Discipline.

[simison]

It sounds like a good idea, but it really hinges on the execution of this discipline. How many different ways can a psyker suppress another?

[Grifftofer]

Off the top of my head:

• Granting Adamantium Will to friendly unit(s)
• Allowing re-rolls/other positive modifiers on Deny the Witch rolls
• Forcing re-rolls/negative modifiers on Manifestation rolls
• Actually changing the Warp Charge cost of a Psyker's powers
• Giving out FNP/Invulnerable saves that only work against psychic powers
• An active 'nullification' that lets you 'Deny the Witch' in your psychic phase
• Possibly making it easier to Perils of the Warp (not strictly suppression, but it feels like it might fit within the purview of such a discipline)

I may be able to come up with some more options with a bit of time

Edited January 30, 2018 by Grifftofer

[simison]

I'm impressed. Alright, so the next step is to codify it and turn it into reality. First, a name. What do we call this discipline?

[Grifftofer]

Perhaps "Praeligation"? Taking inspiration from the latin word for bind, muffle or gag.

[simison]

Perhaps "Praeligation"? Taking inspiration from the latin word for bind, muffle or gag.

 

I'd like Sig to double-check the Latin, but it's a good foundation. 

 

So, the old psychic disciplines had 1 base power and 6 others of varying strengths. Granting Adamantium Will seems simple enough to be the base power. Should it give an additional +1 for units with AW?

[Grifftofer]

I don't think so, they would already be getting +1 from the army rule. So this would make it so that they Deny powers targeting them on a 4+ at worst (the same as the manifestation roll) and powers that don't target them on a 5+, which isn't so bad all told.

 

 

Another way to suppress enemy psykers:

• Allow the Suppressor to count as being in any unit within X" for Deny the Witch purposes (Effectively an old Psychic Hood-type effect)

[MikhalLeNoir]

Not exactly surpressing. But hoe about deflecting enemy psyker powers. It gets bumped back to the psyker or you roll a dice and in a 6 choose a new targrt.

[simison]

1. Allow the Suppressor to count as being in any unit within 12" for Deny the Witch purposes (Effectively an old Psychic Hood-type effect)

Allows re-rolls Deny the Witch rolls

Forces re-rolls on Manifestation rolls

Adds +1 to the Warp Charge cost of a Psyker's powers

Grants  5+ Invulnerable saves that only work against psychic powers

Adds +2 to Perils of the Warp rolls to any unit with the Pysker rule within 12' of the Suppressor

 

How does that look?

 

[Grifftofer]

Mostly good. Still needs a Primaris power. Maybe -1 to manifestation rolls within 6"?

 

5 should probably be a 4++, as the divination power gives a 4++ vs everything.

6 should be -2 to rolls on the Perils table as lower numbers are worse things.

 

Other than that it looks ok.

[simison]

Mostly good. Still needs a Primaris power. Maybe -1 to manifestation rolls within 6"?

 

5 should probably be a 4++, as the divination power gives a 4++ vs everything.

6 should be -2 to rolls on the Perils table as lower numbers are worse things.

 

Other than that it looks ok.

 

I said granting Adamantium Will or a +1 Deny the Witch was the Primaris power. 

 

Would that be a little overpowered? 

 

And fair point.

[Grifftofer]

 

Mostly good. Still needs a Primaris power. Maybe -1 to manifestation rolls within 6"?

 

5 should probably be a 4++, as the divination power gives a 4++ vs everything.

6 should be -2 to rolls on the Perils table as lower numbers are worse things.

 

Other than that it looks ok.

 

I said granting Adamantium Will or a +1 Deny the Witch was the Primaris power. 

 

Would that be a little overpowered? 

 

And fair point.

 

Quite right. Sorry not sure why I missed that.

 

Assuming that you mean the 4++ would be overpowered: I was just suggesting increasing the save to 4++, not also making it applicable to everything. I wasn't very clear in what I said though, so apologies for that.

[simison]

No, I understood you meant 4++ for psychic attacks alone. I'm asking if that would still be a little OP?

[Grifftofer]

No, I understood you meant 4++ for psychic attacks alone. I'm asking if that would still be a little OP?

I don't think so. After all it would only last for a turn and the invulnerable save only defends against direct damaging effects. An opponent only has to make use of a malediction against that unit to completely bypass the defence. True that would be difficult if the opponent has Pyromancy, but even so I think that it being so limited should let it be powerful in its area.

[simison]

Alright. In that case, I assume that this discipline will go into the Godslayers' crunch chapter?

[Grifftofer]

Yeah, either there or possibly I'll add a "Psychic Disciplines of the Insurrection Era" section to the other expansions to the Crusade list bit before the Legion rules proper. I'm thinking that we might want to add the Fulmination discipline in as well as it's not in the Age of Darkness rules anywhere.

[simison]

Yeah, either there or possibly I'll add a "Psychic Disciplines of the Insurrection Era" section to the other expansions to the Crusade list bit before the Legion rules proper. I'm thinking that we might want to add the Fulmination discipline in as well as it's not in the Age of Darkness rules anywhere.

 

If we're adding more than one discipline, then maybe we should have its own section, like we have the Pariah rules. And you've already mentioned that this will change the LA rules proper to a +1 Deny and access to this discipline. 

 

Also, while I am reviewing the rules, I'll also list any writing mistakes I see.

 

Finally, I'm surprised Squig snuck in a quote from the Aeldari. 

[TheBlindPrimarch]

Updating the Godslayers fluff with the new story direction is one of my cat 1 objectives so expect an information dump within the next week or so...just trying to figure out what to do with Alexander...

[simison]

The changes to the Suppressor Squad, in theory, are simple enough. Need to replace the Twisted Brotherhood with Brotherhood of Psykers. *sigh* I've never pointed BoP. Well, Support Squad still knocks off 10 points, so they're 115 points right now. 

 

I don't have my rulebook handy, what does BoP do?

[simison]

Alright, Talon saved the day by pointing out that BoP is charged 25 points among the Thousand Sons. So, we're just going to go with that for the Suppressor Squad. That brings the unit up to 140 points in total. Along with a note limiting them to only the anti-Warp discipline, and they're back up to speed.

[TheBlindPrimarch]

As stated previously, I've made some narrative changes to the Godslayers. Here they are:

 

Koschei never falls

 

While Koschei’s legion succumbs to Nurgle all around him, under the leadership of Koschei’s adoptive brother, Koschei himself is engaged in a Devil’s Gambit with Nurgle.

Koschei gambles his soul for those of his sons and Alexander. Nurgle agrees and challenges Koschei to complete a scavenger hunt, in which he must recover one item for each Godslayer’s soul to release them. If he can’t recover all the items, Nurgle wins and Koschei declares his allegiance to him. If Koschei wins, the Godslayers are free.

Being a Chaos God, Nurgle cheats, and picks many items that are more figurative than literal things, and picks things that should be impossible to recover as well, yet Koschei accepts the terms anyway.

During the siege of Terra, Koschei is present with his Zombie Godslayers, but avoids all personal confrontation with any of his brothers, though he doesn’t hesitate to kill any loyalist marines that get in his way. When he does encounter any of his siblings, he launches his zombies at them to distract them while he makes his getaway. Unbeknownst to any of his siblings, Koschei isn’t there to fight, he’s looking for some of the things on his list.

As far as the Godslayers are concerned, Koschei generally avoids interacting with them, as the sight of them causes him great emotional pain. Instead Alexander leads the Godslayers on Plague Crusades out from the eye. Koschei himself wanders the galaxy looking for the items on his list, concealing his identity and using the chaos of the Scouring and the Plague Crusades to avoid detection. When things get a little too hot for Koschei, he either retreats to the outer edges of the Galaxy, or into the Eye of Terror until things calm down.

Wither he is successful or ultimately fails has yet to be determined. On one hand he could succeed and the Godslayers could return during the End Times as purified crusaders for good against the evil that sought to corrupt them. On the other hand, he could fail and emerge during the end times a bloated, laughing demon-Primarch of Nurgle, eternally laughing at his own folly at thinking he could ever prevail against Chaos as he leads his legion of zombie-marines.

I personally find the first option more satisfying.

[simison]

As I said before, it's an interesting idea, and we'll play it by ear on whether or not he's successful.

 

Back to the rules, I'm up to Alexander. As usual, need to trade out the Pariah ability, but I had another question: should Alexander have 'Marked by Dark Fates'? Additionally, who else should have this rule?

Edited April 23, 2018 by simison

[TheBlindPrimarch]

What does that rule do exactly?

[Grifftofer]

 

In campaign games where character casualties and injury between battles is a factor, any such chart results for [Character] may be re-rolled.

 

So it basically has no in game effect, but lets characters who are known to survive through millennia of war be slightly more resilient to being killed off in campaigns.