Dipping my toes into heresy

[Carraigf]

Hey folks, so like most I'm getting a bit excited about the chance to get into 30k without having to sell one of the kids to cover the costs.

 

As with my AM force I'm hoping to build in 500 pts blocks so wanted to share my first attempt at a 500 pts list as the foundation of a salamanders force.

 

So once built and painted I'll add another 500pts and repeat till I get to around the 30k mark and can comfortably fields Vulkan.

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (500pts) ++

 

+ HQ (85pts) +

 

Legion Centurion

Artificer Armour, Artificer Weapons, Inferno Pistol,eta bombs

 

+ Troops (415pts) +

 

10 man Tactical Squad, Sgt Artificer,Artificer weapons, Inferno Pistol

Rhino, Heavy Flamer

 

6 man support squad,Sgt, Artificer weapons, Inferno pistol

Rhino, Heavy Flamer

 

C&C please o7

[Praefectus Invictus]

Are you planning on playing games with this 500 points? Because it is pretty restrictive at this level. The support squad cannot count as being a compulsory troops choice and therefore this force cannot be selected under the regular AoD force org chart. I'd recommend trying to get to 750 points with your first purchase, maybe by adding another tactical squad and some more rhinos, or potentially even getting the new HH boxset and using that to get you to around 1300 points.

[Trydragon]

As Invictus Said if you want to play games with this your not in FoC but you could run the Onslaught FoC and Swap the Support Squad for a Predator with Flame Storm Cannon, Pintle-Mounted Heavy Flamer and Heavy flamer Sponsons for cheaper then your Support Squad... Just saying :P.

[Carraigf]

@Invictus - yeah plan to play a few games just to get me head around the differences - planning on getting the box as a starter then using some FW upgrades to represent the salamanders customisation. Admit I was really struggling to get the FOC in at 500 so 750 looks like a good shout.

 

@Tyrdragon - This is why I love B&C - that sounds insanely cool - as Salamanders I expect to run a lot of transports and talks so the poured might fit really well. ..

 

Thanks both for the swift replies, of to do some list tweaking :)

[God-Potato of Mankind]

What Centurion do you plan to run?

 

A kitted out Praetor is especially delicious for Salamanders, due to the presence of Eternal Warrior conferring Mantle of the Elder Drake and Dragonscale Shields. Combine with Paragon & Archeotech pistol to make for a supremely durable beatstick.

 

+1 for Predator suggestions, they're excellent weapons platform for cost mostly. All the flame weapons!

 

Tac squad is fine. I'd choose a power fist over an inferno pistol, iirc the range is small and you don't really want to be assaulting with Sally tacs.

[Caillum]

1000-point lists are very interesting to make in 30k, as stuff is generally more pricey than 40k, so it's a great challenge. You won't need to buy a whole lot to get there either!

 

One point I highly recommend - always plan ahead with your purchases. If you like a model and it's rules, try to imagine where it will be in a 2000 - 3000 point army. This will help you build towards something, and you'll avoid making the mistake of buying something that you rarely end up using.

 

Have a good look through the Tactics forum if you haven't already, especially the Salamanders thread.

 

Good luck and welcome! :)

[Black_out]

If you plan on picking up the new HH box you'll have every bit of a 1000 point force for not much invested

[Carraigf]

@GPoM - originally just vanilla as was trying to stay low on points but noticing i get more buck for bang so may instead start with a Preator at 750 or 1000.

 

Main issue is how long it takes me to paint, my current guard force has taken 6 months for 25 infantry, 3 vehicles and 3 walkers - that said power armour should go faster than kilted guardsmen complete with tartan :).

 

Solid advice @Caillum - thinking tac squads and rhinos will definitely be there along with pyroclasts and TH wielding drakes as they are just to good to pass up.

 

At that point my wallet starts to break when I look at the FW options for transports etc.

 

So before I go mad here's a rehash starter list @ 750:

 

HQ:

Praetor, Dragonscale storm shield, mantle, mc thunder hammer

Legion cmd squad, standard bearer, 3 chosen

Rhino heavy flamer

 

Troops:

2 X 10 man tac squad, vexilla

2 X Rhino heavy flamer

 

Only concern is lack of anti armour excepting the Praetor smashing things up...

[Trydragon]

Dont know if opion has changed but most peeps will tell you running a Praetor at low points is a no no, and for anti-tank that easy you a salamander use meltas, IMO I would go something like this, for my first 750

 

Cent In Arti Armour, Refractor Feild, Dragon Scale, Thunder hammer

 

2x Tactical's With Vex

2x Rhinos with HF

 

Tactical suport with 5 Meltas

rhino with HF

 

 

[Caillum]

A cheap Praetor is fine, but a Centurion will do the job too. Make the model to be either. :)

 

Command Squads are just ok. Some Legions make them work better than others, but I wouldn't take one at such a low points level.

[Carraigf]

Thanks both,I'll be honest the main reason for adding the cmd squad was to secure Rhino and bodies, taking a cent and squadding him up with the support boys would probably be more effective.

[Kor'Vesh]

I know that standard wisdom is to avoid the Praetor in very small games - and I fully understand why. However, I will point out that I think the covenant of fire adds a LOT to the standard small Salamander army, and this can be a good reason to play the big guy, or delegatus. Move through cover is a very useful bonus, especially give how slw salamanders can be, and the invulnerable saves on you vehicles are very welcome.

 

With the Calth box as a starter, I'd try to go with 2 ten man tactical squads, a 5 man flamer support squad, 2 rhinos, a praetor or delagatus, and a basic MM contemptor (which is twin linked) in a 750 starter list. If you were open to buying something from Forgeworld in the starter list, I'd probably take a tank over the contemptor myself - A sicaran, predator executioner, or scorpius would all be nice additions, and might give you more wargear points to play with or sergeants and your HQ.

[Terminus]

Hey folks, so like most I'm getting a bit excited about the chance to get into 30k without having to sell one of the kids to cover the costs.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

 

A proper 30K army will still set you back $1000. The Betrayal of Calth box lets you build a small core, you still need to buy all the crazy tanks and rapiers and fliers, etc. to actually kill the enemy.

 

Also, anyone telling you to run "a basic MM contemptor" is your enemy. Don't waste the points on that jive. Either acquire a second Kheres for a Mortis Contemptor (probably best bet with that static pose), or get another fist and covert up some grav guns for them for a dual-fist/grav Contemptor in a drop pod.

[Carraigf]

Must admit I expect the contemptor and probably cataphractii are unlikely to form part of the final force, firedrakes are just too awesome, and i hope to use pyroclasts for my support troops. Yeah this is gonna make a debt in the wallet lol.

 

Been looking at the rules for the sicaran, great tank but fluff wise more drawn to the infernous predator.

 

Transports feel like a must have for Salamanders but are the rhinos tough enough? Appreciate I'd have to go up in points but the cost of an LR versus that of a set of Demios isn't that great if those are what I'll need to run in future...

 

Tricky all this new game system malarkey :)

[Brother Heinrich]

One does not "Dip" into heresy...

[Slips]

You cannonball in with Weights Chained to your Ankles.

 

 You go in fast and hard and never go back :p

[Kor'Vesh]

Also, anyone telling you to run "a basic MM contemptor" is your enemy. Don't waste the points on that jive. Either acquire a second Kheres for a Mortis Contemptor (probably best bet with that static pose), or get another fist and covert up some grav guns for them for a dual-fist/grav Contemptor in a drop pod.

Clearly I am an agent of evil

I'd agree that it is a reasonably bad option in an absolute sense - but given he's getting it for 'free' in the Calth box, asked for tips on a 750 point army based on the box, the MM is freely twin-linked and fluffy for sallies, and the original list is lacking Anti-tank, it is hardly a shocking option. It also fits into a list similar to carraigf's original intent. A twin kheres mortis is certainly a better buy though, and could be worked into the 750 list given the price is only 5 points more than the basic contemptor. Obviously, if you are going contemptor, some magnets in the arms are worth investing in.

Carraigf - Transport-wise, you can use normal plastic rhinos in the heresy. I think they are 'Mars pattern', and are clearly a less pricey option. They will die pretty easily though - but salamanders are slow. Fluffwise, I'd agree with you on the infernus, sadly I'm just not convinced its any good for the cost. If it came with fast for free it might be more interesting - it does look fantastic though. The Sicaran is an excellent all round tank, and I think all round fire power is good in small games - this is certainly why the twin kheres contemptor would be the best in game option from the Calth box.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Wait the Salamanders player is evil? The irony

Its pretty hard to create a 750 list for the heresy that is within the points limit and has flavor especially for Salamanders who have a lot of their flavor from wargear and units like pyroclasts.

How about a Chosen Few list with some heavy flamers? It's fun and can be used with the models given in the BAC box.

[Carraigf]

Thanks all for the advice, been working on a few lists mapping out where I think I'd like to get to at 3000 points and just don't see a contemptor and the cataphractii being part of a final force. So reckon I'll take the tac marines and trade the rest for some transports.

 

Here's a 1500 point list - consider my ankles well and truly weighted lol:+++

 

Salamanders 1500

 

 

Praetor - Artificer Armour, Dragonscale Storm Shield, Iron Halo , Mantle of the Elder Drake, Melta Bombs, MC Paragon Blade - 190pts

 

2 x 10 man Tactical Squad - Vexilla

2 x Rhino, Heavy Flamer - 420pts

 

1 x 10 man Pyroclast Squad

1 x Proteus - Armoured Ceramite, Heavy Flamer, Twin heavy flamer - 540pts

 

2 x Sicaran - Heavy flamer and armoured ceramite - 350pts

[Caillum]

I know you're trying to capitalise on the Legion traits, but taking heavy flamer sponsons on the Sicarans is bit of a waste. They have awesome guns with 48" range and are better at anti-tank, so lascannons are a much better fit. If I were you, I'd drop Armoured Ceramite and swap to them.

 

Proteus & 10 Pyroclasts? Nice! You might not need so many at 1500 though, and you need somewhere for the Praetor to go. Why not take 5 with an Apothecary? Praetor can ride along and you'll have points left to gear up Sergeants. You could even add an Explorator Augury Web to the Proteus and Scout everyone forward! The EAW can screw with enemy Reserves too, which is a nice bonus.

 

Here's a sample:

 

HQ

Legion Praetor: bolt pistol; Paragon blade (master-crafted); melta bombs; digital lasers; iron halo; Dragonscale storm shield; Mantle of the Elder Drake; The Covenant of Fire 205
 

TROOPS
9 Tactical Space Marines: Legion vexilla; + 1 Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour) 170
• Rhino: heavy flamer 50
9 Tactical Space Marines: Legion vexilla; + 1 Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour) 170
• Rhino: heavy flamer 50
4 Pyroclasts: + 1 Pyroclast Warden (power fist; master-crafted weapon) 180
• Land Raider Proteus: armoured ceramite; Explorator Augury Web 270
 

ELITES
Apothecarion Detachment
• Apothecary: artificer armour 55
 

HEAVY SUPPORT
Sicaran Battle Tank: lascannon sponsons 175
Sicaran Battle Tank: lascannon sponsons 175

1,500 points

[Terminus]

That looks very solid for 1500 points. At higher points, you can swap one of the Sicarans for a Deredeo, and/or add a Venator for dealing with super heavies or Scorpius for dealing with marine-heavy lists (more likely now with the advent of the box :P).

[Kor'Vesh]

   TRUTH

 

Check out Caillum speaking lots of truth. At very least you need some way to transport your praetor!

 

If you like heavy flamers on the sicarans for fluff reasons, just swap the hull mounted heavy bolter for one (sallies can do this), its not like that matters too much. Lascannon sponsons all the way though. I'm running my pyros in a scouting land raider, and its a barrel of fun.

 

Terminus also has very solid options for an alternate heavy slot. I could see 2 normal Sicarans being great in a bigger game too, but if you want variety his words are wise. I'd be tempted by the Sicaran venator instead of a second sicaran, it keeps your fast moving armoured column theme. You might struggle to squeeze it in at 1.5k though. Nice basic list concept you have here now, whichever advice you follow - I'm excited to see it materialise!

[Carraigf]

Thanks again all, spent the last week trawling through lots of forums and reading the books - as always the B&C seems the best place to get solid advice and feedback so thank you again.

 

I've decided to go for rule of cool as it looks like 30k will be consuming all of my hobby funds and effort for some time to come, dipping my toes indeed ;).

 

Breaking free from Calth and accepting the hit that comes from having a solely FW force I'm trying plan ahead so as to work backwards from a final list that squarely his the 5k mark.

 

Salamanders 5000pts - Covenant of Fire

 

HQs

 

Primus Medicae, Cataphractii, SS, MC TH 

 

Praetor, Artificer Armour, MoED , SS, MC PB, MBs

 

Troops

 

2 x Breacher Squad, Art. Armour, BC, 2 x Volkite Charger in Phobos with Ceramite  and HF 

 

2 x Tactical Squad, Art. Armour, Vexilla in Rhino with HF

 

2 x Pyroclast Squad - 6x Pyroclast + Warden in Proteus with Ceramite, Scout TL HF 

 

Elites 

 

2 x Apothecary with Art. Armour 

 

2 x Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought with 2x MM

 

10 Fire drakes - 8 TH +SS, 1 HF, Sgt with MC TH +SS

 

Heavy Support

 

2 x Sicaran Battle Tank with Ceramite and LC

 

Vulkan

 

So Vulkan goes with the Primus and Drakes into his Spartan, the medics in with the pyros as they scout into the enemy. Praetor joins a Breacher squad and leads them to contest middle ground while the tacs take and hold objectives. Dreads and Sicarans in support.

 

Next step is working back to 4k, 3k and 2k with the aim to make each step every 3-6 months or so.

 

C&C as always gratefully received o7

[Caillum]

^^This is a great idea mate! Nail the purchases down now, so you don't buy something and regret it later.

 

Breachers can take meltaguns, which will be master-crafted with CoF, so consider upgrading the Volkite chargers. And they're a 10-man minimum unit in a 10-capacity Tank, so your Praetor won't fit. He'll have to ride with the Pyros. Realistically, with Vulkan being a "Master of the Legion", you don't actually need him. You could make him a basic Centurion, saving a few points, or drop him and the Primus Medicae and go for a different Consul altogether (that doesn't have Support Officer).

 

Forge Lord or Chaplain comes to mind, in Cataphractii with all the gear. Forge Lord can take rad grenades for -1 Toughness, but Firedrakes probably don't need this bonus. A Chaplain (or even better, Nomus Rhy'tan) granting Zealot is very good for a hard-hitting assault unit, especially with Vulkan in there getting the re-rolls too. Nomus/Chaplain can be your Warlord in smaller games too. Just an idea. :)

 

Spartan isn't listed, but I assume it's got AC and a flare shield. A Sicaran Venator may be vital when up against Super-heavy vehicles. If you do what I suggested above, and massage a few more points out of the list, you should be able to afford one...

[Terminus]

Those breacher squads are awful. What is their purpose?

 

Seriously, I had to do a double-take when I saw the point total at 5000. That's 5000 points? I wpuld have to really really try at 5000 points to make a list that wouldn't delete most of this army in one turn.