caladancid Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Just finished reading the Ultramarine half of the two books released yesterday. I really enjoy Rob Sanders and this book was pretty good I thought, it surely didn't feel like it was written to just sell models (as I think it probably was, given the timing). One really interesting thing that I want to know if others thought. It seemed like there were lots of references to the Lost Legions in the book, which I did not expect. I can't think of anything the references might be to, other than this idea already given in other books that the UM expanded each time one of those Lost Legions vanished. Anyone else have an idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The older reference you mention is a deliberately intended false one, but I'm curious to know what other references are in this book. Would you mind putting them in spoilers or messaging them to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 They aren't spoilers so much as many mentions by Sergeant Urcus of what he considers to be similar circumstances (to the current betrayal by the Word Bearers) in the past of Legions fighting Legions or Legions being wiped out. Â I did not know the reference from The First Heretic (I think it came from that and not a short story)Â was deliberately false, that's interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I did not know the reference from The First Heretic (I think it came from that and not a short story)Â was deliberately false, that's interesting. Â Yep. It was scuttlebutt between two Word Bearers that word of god (A D-B) went out of the way to correct people assuming that the passage was the unvarnished truth. It was entirely meant as rumour-mongering with precious little truth to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 I think the part that seems the most interesting to me is that whatever happened, Sergeant Orcus seems to know or thinks that he knows, enough to where it is the first thing he compares the current Heresy to for a frame of reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Half finished the 'Honoured' - really interesting read so far. The maraphon to arcology entrance at the start was amazing ;) That's was one of the things that Abnett in 'Know no Fear' or multiple authors in 'Mark of Calth' didn't covered at all. Battles in the tunnels are really good. Planning and it's execution are gruesome and precise. But at the same time 1 scene ruined all the good - attack on cargo teleport Nexus. One moment WB's are efficient, and like by the click of hand 1 squad of Ultramarines kill's dozens of WB's. That truly ruined the good novella so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Please use spoilers, Heritor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Please use spoilers, Heritor...  I'm actually afraid to read this thread now. lol  I've been following all of these novels, picked up and read Honour of Macragge, The Purge, etc... I haven't picked this novel up yet and don't want to ruin any endings for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Can you either post here or PM to me regarding the ending of the story and the fate of Captain Aethon?Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 No real spoilers so far in this thread I don't think. Yeah they fight a lot but nothing plot worthy until the very end. Sending PM now HaSY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Whilst there are bits to the first novella that I enjoy, it's also ... not as good as I hoped. Too much fighting. And also very confined to what is in the box - no human soldiers, no Mechanicum, a passing mention of civilians in an upper chamber (yet no interaction, which could be very cool, BSG-style where you have Adama and a Roslin figure and other characters) and very few other kinds of Marines. And no 'theoretical/practical' - this is a bizarre absence. And also a strange lack of mention of Monarchia so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 I really want to know if The Unburdened is a second chapter to the story in The Honoured or if it tells a parallel story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I really want to know if The Unburdened is a second chapter to the story in The Honoured or if it tells a parallel story.  Directly parallel. There are scenes which are exact mirror images of each other, with the same dialogue, but seen from different perspectives.  Just finished both, they're ok but not essential. They are closer to bolterporn fare than most HH books but not to the exclusion of character, though the plot's pretty uncomplicated, probably due to being directly tied to the BaC game. Some good scenes in both, seconding HeritorA on the race to get underground being tense and strong.  I would say The Unburdened is the stronger of the two for it's complex portrait of Kurtha Sedd.  Really interesting dude, it's good to see some complexity in a traitor character that doesn't lead to them being a closet loyalist. Sedd kind of.. flukes his way through things? He's competent and faithful but clearly not initiated into the same mysteries as Erebus or Kor Phaeron, so he sort of improvises when it comes to ritual violence. When he summons the daemons and there's just not quite enough force or warp-saturation present for them to materialise and they're so close, he gets this fascinating desperation as he tries to figure out what he needs to do to get them into the material world. More sacrifices? The right kind of sacrifice? It's a far cry from the all-knowing chaos cult master archetype in 40k.  Add to this his constant hiding the truth from his men about how they've been abandoned on Calth. What's also nice is that even though his lieutenants question his orders and talk behind his back, it's not because they're treacherous underlings trying to usurp his place but because they're worried about him losing sight of the strategic situation and confused about what Lorgar wanted of them. It's pretty far from moustache-twirling. Even when warp stuff starts happening and a WB prisoner is taunting the Ultras about how the darkness will devour their souls, both he and his fellow prisoners know he's not really 100% clear on what's going on. It's more motivated from vicious hate and patched together from what they've been taught, meant to intimidate.  Having said all this, 'Shut up, traitor!' might be the dumbest line I've read in a BL book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I finished The Honoured; it got better in the second half, although it was very cheesy at many points (also how many Ultramarine extras were there...it certainly wasn't a desperate few?). I was still surprised that by the end Aethon never thought of Monarchia, never questioned where and when and what turned the WBs. I've started The Unburdened, and I love it much more, it feels much more like a good traitor text in that you begin to understand these horrible people. Monarchia was an excellent place to start, with very atmospheric, poignant imeges of grey dust on grey armour. Also it was very good, if monstrous, to see the end of Know No Fear from a 'traitor' POV, as the world quickly turns to hell from the orbital strikes to the solar flare. However reading of the massacre of innocents, of indiscriminate fire and explosions among normal people, this weekend feels horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Honoured actually quite good about Underworld war actual battles. The rush to safety was amazingly done. Unburdened, which is a little clumsy sometimes with constant  bickering of Kurtha Sedd, is good depicting the rush against Veridian sun from the other side of view. But it get's uninteresting from the point of then cultism and chaos worshipping starts. It's funny to see the level of support from Chaos Gods on one level with Lorgar - really David? Some bickering unknown emo chaplain conquering Calth Underworld - then dark cardinals and Erebuses failed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Yeah I can't believe I forgot to comment on that scene (escaping the sun) in my first comment. That was very well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izlude Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I just received the to book set (very nice by the way) and excited to get reading. It sounds like two sides to a coin so does it matter which book to start with? It sounds like people have been reading The Honored first?  Oh love the dramatis personae in the Unburdened...Malcador=lackey. Priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I just received the to book set (very nice by the way) and excited to get reading. It sounds like two sides to a coin so does it matter which book to start with? It sounds like people have been reading The Honored first?  Oh love the dramatis personae in the Unburdened...Malcador=lackey. Priceless If you haven't started yet, yes- read The Honoured first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Wait...the UM won the Underworld War, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Wait...the UM won the Underworld War, right? Eventually, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't ended until the time of the Siege of Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allart01 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015  Wait...the UM won the Underworld War, right?Eventually, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't ended until the time of the Siege of Terra.  Considering the Word Bearers' aims (preventing as many Ultramarines as possible from protecting Terra) I'd call that a victory for the 17th.  But, more on topic:   So, does Sedd kill Aethon like the BaC book seems to say? He then goes on and gets eventually killed by Thiel. Or that piece of fluff was changed?  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Not changed. I had totally forgotten that was how it ended eventually haha. After I finished I realized that I should have known...oh well, it made it more exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I finished The Honoured; it got better in the second half, although it was very cheesy at many points (also how many Ultramarine extras were there...it certainly wasn't a desperate few?). I was still surprised that by the end Aethon never thought of Monarchia, never questioned where and when and what turned the WBs. I've started The Unburdened, and I love it much more, it feels much more like a good traitor text in that you begin to understand these horrible people. Monarchia was an excellent place to start, with very atmospheric, poignant imeges of grey dust on grey armour. Also it was very good, if monstrous, to see the end of Know No Fear from a 'traitor' POV, as the world quickly turns to hell from the orbital strikes to the solar flare. However reading of the massacre of innocents, of indiscriminate fire and explosions among normal people, this weekend feels horrible.  - Well to be fair the underground would have been well known to the people of Calth as it is largely a structured environment, heavily mined and used. It makes sense to me many of the 13th would have known to find shelter there. It amazes me more the amount of Word Bearers that got in....   - As far as the shock of the WB's heresy, I thought it was well handled. You have to remember after the incident on Monarcharia it is shown to result in a 'quiet period' for Logar and then with a vengeance he is conquering for the Imperium again at an alarming pace.  To me it makes sense.... The father tells the son he MUST mow the loan. The Son is peeved, and cries in his bedroom for a while.... then the son eventually grabs the mower and does the best job he's ever seen his son do! What the father doesn't see is the son is mowing in pure hatred, and is planning dad's demise as soon as this stupid lawn is mowed. lol  Maybe it's just me but I found it believable that the Ultra's thought it all behind them, and Ultra's put brotherhood in high regard. Perhaps another Legion would have been much more cautious of the WB's, but I think this played on the Ultra's belief system pretty well and made it an even better betrayal.  Don't forget that seen at the beginning of Know No Fear- the 'cafeteria scene'. It's fantastic and the emotion in that seen shows the same level of disbelief. I liked it a lot.     Wait...the UM won the Underworld War, right?Eventually, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't ended until the time of the Siege of Terra.  Considering the Word Bearers' aims (preventing as many Ultramarines as possible from protecting Terra) I'd call that a victory for the 17th.  But, more on topic:   So, does Sedd kill Aethon like the BaC book seems to say? He then goes on and gets eventually killed by Thiel. Or that piece of fluff was changed?        Oh I think it is a victory for the WB's. I was a little disappointed because (I've mentioned this a dozen times in the forums) once again Loyalists die, and chaos just gets stronger. It's a disturbing pattern that makes it seem like by the time they reach Terra, Chaos will be full of Daemon Princes and high end possessed mutants, where as the imperials and their leadership are all taking dirt naps.    And...    wow. I did not even put that together that Aeonid ends up killing this Chaplain? Is that confirmed or just a 'no-name' chaplain? Good catch though.    I am not a big fan of the second author so I did not pick up that book, but after reading this one I just might.  The truth is the Ultra's stuff is so much better in the 30K setting that I have trouble reading the current stuff. Damnos is a little 'meh', and forget the Ventris stuff. There is some good stuff there, but most of the well rounded Ultra stuff seems to have been created in this timeline.  Is the second book worth it though? I did really like this one, it got a touch muddy for me when the hallway fights seemed to just run on and on after a while, but the end was good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Yes Thiel did killed Kurtha Sedd in Nyck Kyme 'Censure' audio drama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Oh I think it is a victory for the WB's. I was a little disappointed because (I've mentioned this a dozen times in the forums) once again Loyalists die, and chaos just gets stronger. It's a disturbing pattern that makes it seem like by the time they reach Terra, Chaos will be full of Daemon Princes and high end possessed mutants, where as the imperials and their leadership are all taking dirt naps. And... wow. I did not even put that together that Aeonid ends up killing this Chaplain? Is that confirmed or just a 'no-name' chaplain? Good catch though. I am not a big fan of the second author so I did not pick up that book, but after reading this one I just might. The truth is the Ultra's stuff is so much better in the 30K setting that I have trouble reading the current stuff. Damnos is a little 'meh', and forget the Ventris stuff. There is some good stuff there, but most of the well rounded Ultra stuff seems to have been created in this timeline. Is the second book worth it though? I did really like this one, it got a touch muddy for me when the hallway fights seemed to just run on and on after a while, but the end was good... Haven't finished the second book (The Unburdened) but the opening sequences are excellent. Pacing suffers a little once they get underground but it's ok. In regards to your first spoiler though... Definitely a victory for the WB over all, although it's frequently pointed out how much the opportunity to flat out wipe out the XIIIth as a fighting force was squandered. They won, just probably nowhere near as hard as they could have. The Chaosiness is supposed to get quite a bit heavier though, to the point where even after like 8 years of Rogal Dorn himself fortifying the palace, Terra is still under serious threat from the Traitor forces that assemble there. There will be Daemon Primarchs and 8-pointed stars and whatever. The World Eaters will be decked out in blood and brass, Legio Tempestor will have crazy daemon bird heads, maybe Horus will even have his nose-tube. It's gonna get weird. Part of what contributes to them losing is the malign influence of the forces that they've sworn themselves to to even have the power to take on the Emperor. For example the Emperor's Children losing sight of their objectives and goin' a raidin', and the Death Guard getting stranded and coming late because of the ambitions of one man. It will be a glorious mess, but yeah Loyalists losing is supposed to be the trend. This is like the worst time in the Imperium's history. This is when Chaos waxes its strongest in a whole 10,000 year stretch, with the 13th Black Crusade being the next closest (even larger?) peak. So there'll be little tales of personal heroism like Ventanus and Meduson, but mostly things are going to just go really wrong for the Loyalists. That's just the Horus Heresy. I'm not sure what you expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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