Carnivore Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 So I've been happily running my Night Lords using Pride of the Legion for a while now, and didn't really see any reason to change anything up. Then the Leviathan Siege Dreadnought was released, and it comes in TALONS. Needless to say, I fell in love. I'm picking up two of them, and wanted to work them into my list, then I wondered: would the Leviathans be enough to make me try Terror Assault again? So here are both lists: TERROR ASSAULT + HQ + Legion Centurion [Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Pair of Lightning Claws, Trophies of Judgment, Teleportation Transponder] ····Consul [Primus Medicae] Legion Praetor [Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Void Shield Harness, Chainfist, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Trophies of Judgment, Teleportation Transponder] ····Master of the Legion [Terror Assault] + Troops + Terror Squad [9x Executioners, 10x Boltguns] ····Headsman [Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs] Terror Squad [9x Executioners, Flamer, 8x Heavy Chainblades] ····Headsman [Artificer Armour, Power Fist, Melta Bombs] Terror Squad [9x Executioners, 10x Volkite Chargers] ····Headsman [Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs] + Elites + Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Chainfist, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Graviton Gun, Extra Armour] Legion Terminator Squad [9x Cataphractii Terminators, 3x Chainfists, 2x Power Fists, 2x Pair of Lightning Claws, 2x Power Axes, Plasma Blaster, Reaper Autocannon, 4x Volkite Chargers, Teleportation Transponder] ····Legion Terminator Sergeant [Nostraman Chainglaive, Volkite Charger] Apothecarion Detachment ····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner] ····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner] ····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour] + Fast Attack + Xiphon Interceptor [Armoured Cockpit, Chaff Launcher, Ground-tracking Auguries] Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta, Twin-linked Lascannon] + Heavy Support + Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon •••Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Siege Drill, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Calivers] •••Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard, Phosphex Discharger] VS. PRIDE OF THE LEGION + HQ + Legion Praetor [Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Void Shield Harness, Chainfist, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Trophies of Judgment, Teleportation Transponder] ····Master of the Legion [Pride of the Legion] Legion Centurion [Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Cyber-familiar, Lightning Claw, Graviton Gun, Rad Grenades] ····Consul [Forge Lord] + Troops + Legion Terminator Squad [9x Cataphractii Terminators, 3x Chainfists, 2x Power Fists, 1x Thunderhammer, 2x Pair of Lightning Claws, Plasma Blaster, Reaper Autocannon, Teleportation Transponder] ····Legion Terminator Sergeant [Nostraman Chainglaive] Legion Terminator Squad [9x Tártaros Terminators, 2x Chainfists, 1x Power Fist, 4x Combi-Weapons, Heavy Flamer, Reaper Autocannon, Teleportation Transponder] ····Legion Terminator Sergeant [Combi-Weapon, Nostraman Chainglaive] Legion Terminator Squad [9x Cataphractii Terminators, 3x Chainfists, 1x Power Fist, 1x Pair of Lightning Claws, Plasma Blaster, Heavy Flamer, 4x Volkite Chargers, Teleportation Transponder] ····Legion Terminator Sergeant [Nostraman Chainglaive, Volkite Charger] + Elites + Contemptor Dreadnought [Chainfist, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Graviton Gun, Extra Armour] + Heavy Support + Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought [Aiolos Missile Launcher, Armoured Ceramite] Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Heavy Bolters] Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon ····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Siege Drill, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver] ····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard, Phosphex Discharger] So... thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Both: I say put the Terror Squads in Drop Pods and the Leviathans too. Dish the Contemptor for this purpose. You want to get all of them close, prepare to get close. Offer them a bit of protection for this task. Terror: Take meltabomb on the sergeants, volkites on the executioners (anti personal and perfect against AV10 vehicle backs), put the praetor in one of the terror squads to spread your forces rather than putting all eggs into one basket (plasma deredeos and especially typhons LOVE such units where you can kill potentially 700+ points in one turn). No need for apothecaries and xiphon IMO. Rather take a Primaris with double krakens against heavy armour. Rest of the points: quad mortars or grav cannons. Pride: Not convinced on Terminator Lists at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 For the PoL, take at least one squad of veterans tooled up with heavy bolters and rocking sniper tactics. Brutal damage output there. As for the rest, points have been pretty well covered. Pod the Leviathans, give the Terror Squads volkite as standard, you probably will need to drop the Contemptor and apothecaries. Give the primus medicae a Void Shield to offer that extra protection for the turn the terminators deep strike and have the Praetor in the pod with a squad. Anything left over, grav cannon rapiers are your friend Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 Norngahl & Balthamal, thank you both for the feedback. I always appreciate when anyone takes the time to reply to my topics, and Balthamal you have been a consistent help to me across multiple threads so thank you again. I may have read the rules incorrectly (wouldn't be the first time), but I thought Leviathans could only be in pods if the Talon consisted of a single Dreadnought? I can totally understand and agree the logic regarding the dangers of putting too many points and your entire HQ in one squad. However, given that no power armoured NL Praetor can match Sevatar, I have a hard time justifying running a regular praetor rather than taking the Prince of Crows. So with that being said, and given my love of terminators, I'm pretty committed to having my Praetor in terminator armour, so keeping him with a terminator squad is a must for me. I can move my Consul to another squad though so that all my HQ isn't in the same squad, I ran a Chaplain with my Night Raptors in my old Terror Assault list, but given their absence from this one, any suggestions for what Consul would help this list most? I'll tinker with both lists, incorporate the suggestions, and come back to you with the revisions as soon as I'm happy with it. Norngahl, just out of curiosity, could you elaborate on your comment regarding terminator lists? Balthamal, would the PotL list, would I be better served in your opinion with multiple squads of veterans vs. multiple squads of terminators? From my experience, and everything I've read on the subject, Terror Squads seem to be almost universally better than Veterans, so if you're looking to run a lot of those you're better served with Terror Assault. I love terminators, and am heavily biased with anything regarding them, so I can readily admit my attachment is probably coloring my judgment more than a little. I do like the sound of those sniping heavy bolters though... :evil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Yeah, Leviathans are only able to take pods if in a Talon of 1. So you'd only have 1 with your Terror Assault list, but it's not a bad option. I'm thinking about taking this in my Terror Assault army: Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon • Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Leviathan siege drill; Leviathan siege claw; 2x twin-linked Volkite caliver; armoured ceramite; phosphex discharger 320 • Kharybdis Assault Claw Only 1, but 50 points less than your pair of Leviathans, and guaranteed to get into combat and ruin someones day! The Kharybdis can continue to harass stuff while the Leviathan cuts down troops and destroys vehicles. :) Needs to be part of an odd-number of pods for the 1st turn DPA, but that's easy to make work. I agree with you about the Terror Squads being better than Veterans, but they can do well with melta bombs and Tank Hunters. The Sniper version has similar damage output to a Terror Squad with Volkite chargers. Forge Lord is a great Consul for an assault army (but you need to put a Teleportation Transponder on him). You could also go for a Primus Medicae for a defensive boost, or a Chaplain for an offensive boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Cheers Caillum for the feedback, very helpful and straightforward as always from you . I will definitely continue tinkering with the multiple Leviathans vs. single Leviathan w/ Transport, but I took your advice and the suggestions of Balthamal and Norngahl and came up with these two lists. Thoughts?TERROR ASSAULT+ HQ +Praetor [Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Void Shield Harness, Trophies of Judgment, Chainfist, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Teleportation Transponder]····Master of the Legion [Terror Assault]+ Troops +Terror Squad [8x Executioners, 8x Volkite Chargers, Drop Pod]····Headsman [Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs]Terror Squad [8x Executioners, 1x Heavy Chainblade, 7x Volkite Chargers, Drop Pod]····Headsman [Artificer Armour, Power Fist]Terror Squad [8x Executioners, 8x Volkite Chargers, Drop Pod]····Headsman [Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs]+ Elites +Terminator Squad [9x Cataphractii Terminators, 2x Chainfists, 2x Power Fists, 2x Pair of Lightning Claws, Plasma Blaster, Reaper Autocannon, 4x Volkite Chargers, Teleportation Transponder]····Terminator Sergeant [Nostraman Chainglaive, Volkite Charger]Legion Rapier Weapons Battery····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Graviton Cannon]····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')]Apothecarion Detachment····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner]····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner]····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour]+ Fast Attack +Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter [battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 2x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles, Two Sunfury heavy missiles]+ Heavy Support +Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Siege Drill, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver]····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Storm Cannon, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver]····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard]--------------------------PRIDE OF THE LEGION+ HQ +Praetor [Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Void Shield Harness, Trophies of Judgment, Chainfist, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Teleportation Transponder]····Master of the Legion [Pride of the Legion]Chaplain [Artificer Armour, Trophies of Judgment, Thunder Hammer, Boarding Shield, Jump Pack]+ Troops +Terminator Squad [9x Cataphractii Terminators, 3x Chainfists, 2x Power Fists, 1x Thunderhammer, 2x Pair of Lightning Claws, 1x Power Axe, Plasma Blaster, Reaper Autocannon, Teleportation Transponder]····Terminator Sergeant [Nostraman Chainglaive]Legion Terminator Squad [9x Tartaros Terminators, 2x Chainfists, 1x Power Fist, 6x Power Axes, 4x Combi-Weapons, Heavy Flamer, Reaper Autocannon, Teleportation Transponder]····Terminator Sergeant [Nostraman Chainglaive, Combi-Weapon]Veteran Tactical Squad [Tactic: Sniper, 9x Veterans, Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, 2x Heavy Bolters and Suspensor Web, 3x Power Axes]····Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist, Combi-Weapon]+ Fast Attack +Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop PodNight Raptor Squad [7x Night Raptors, 2x Pair of Lightning Claws]····Huntmaster [Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs]+ Heavy Support +Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought [Aiolos Missile Launcher, Armoured Ceramite]Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Siege Drill, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver]····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard, Phosphex Discharger]Sicaran Battle Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Heavy Bolters, Dozer Blade] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 First list is pretty brutal! I like it! Few things to tune up: 1. Swap master crafted weapon for digital lasers. Having 5 attacks on your praetor is nice! 2. Wouldn't take volkites on the terminators, rather a second reaper cannon. 3. Go for two quadmortars rather than 1:1. You decided to get up close, so you should take gear that kills transports the best, tanks will get volkites in the rear and anything super heavy or spartans will be eaten by three goddamn levis in close combat! 4. I get it, you like apothecarys, I would buy quad mortars instead just to make sure I kill maximum transports round one. ;) Get into close combat as quick as possible, as it saves you from enemy fire. 3 levis will be a huge threat the enemy will not dare to fight in CC, so your other units will soak less fire. Void shield harness on praetor is ace, as someone will likely put a typhon plate or plasma deredeo plate on you, making you ignore the first heavy losses. You can ignore the shooting from propably the meanest anti-terminator unit your opponent has for a whole turn, so yes, take it! Thing with Terminator lists is- fielded deathwing for a very long time. Thing is- you drown in flashlights, you perish in ap2 and plates, you are slow, you hardly fit into any great transport once the squad gets big and you have few units on the field. And few units is a big deal, when your opponent feeds you garbage. I think they are too general to perform great, too expensive because of beeing well geared for any siuation and countered to easy. Once you face a mobile enemy, you will do nothing but run after him with 2d6. I'm one of these "mobility wins games" Players ;) but maybe someone can give you great hints. I guess terminators become way better in zone mortalis, where they just don't meet so much ap2 weapons or concentrated fire of multiple units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tychii Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I'm bidding my time on the terminators till the atrementar rules / models come out. If u was going pride, I would just swap the terminator squads with vet squads instead. Can get more bodies on the ground with more transports and they are just as flexible if not more so. The thing is that teeminators just die in 30k. Plenty of low ap weapons running around in people's armies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 As Norngahl says, the greatest problem with fielding massed ranks of Terminators is, the stupidly prevalent ap2 shooting that rapidly escalates into pie plates of doom. Vindicators. Typhons. Phosphex Medusae and now Leviathans make mince meat out of those heftily priced blobs of death. Were you to run PoL then definitely take at least a squad of vets so you can pop em in a transport to offer some protection. But Jesus Christ that first list....that's brutality of the first order. I'd drop the apothecaries and get an extra quad mortar rapier but that's me looking at it from a theoryhammer side of it. I mean your assault units will get at least a turn to set themselves up nicely because every gun big or small is going straight after that Leviathan talon. If you manage to get them into the opponents line it would be amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 Norngahl, Tychii, and Balthamal, thank you all for the feedback, and the explanations of the pitfalls of Terminator lists in 30K. I've just been playing friends and family, and none of us are power-gamers or especially seasoned 30Kers so I hadn't seen much of that yet. Extremely insightful and enlightening, so thank you all for that. Norngahl and Balthamal - you both rock. Thanks for coming back and offering more feedback to help get my list where it needs to be. I laughed when I read your descriptions regarding its "brutality." Needless to say, that was music to my ears, and high praise coming from both of you. So here it is, the final draft (barring any further suggestions lol): HQ Legion Praetor: Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Void Shield Harness, Chainfist, Digital Lasers, Teleportation Transponder, Trophies of Judgment TROOPS Terror Squad 9x Executioners, 10x Volkite Chargers, Legion Drop Pod Headsman: Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs Terror Squad 9x Executioners, 1x Heavy Chainblade, 8x Volkite Chargers, Legion Drop Pod Headsman: Artificer Armour, Power Fist Terror Squad 9x Executioners, 10x Volkite Chargers, Legion Drop Pod Headsman: Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs ELITES Legion Terminator Squad 9x Cataphractii Terminators, 3x Chainfists, 2x Power Fists, 1x Thunderhammer, 2x Pair of Lightning Claws, 2x Reaper Autocannons, Teleportation Transponder Legion Terminator Sergeant: Nostraman Chainglaive Legion Rapier Weapons Battery Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun') Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun') Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun') Legion Rapier Weapons Battery Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun') FAST ATTACK Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter: Battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 2x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles, Two Sunfury heavy missiles HEAVY SUPPORT Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Siege Drill, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Storm Cannon, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 My, thats a surprising amount of Volkite... *Cough* MDRC *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Make the mortars 2:2 instead of 3:1 as a last note :) 2 mortars will deal an average of 3 hp to av13 per round, so here go sicarans and predators and anything less. But yeah, that's it. It's a goddam brutal list without weak spots and I would have a hard day myself to counter it. 7 units in the list I just don't want to be in combat with. The leviathans are your deathstar encounter, btw. No matter how badass you are, you will run from them if you can ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 My, thats a surprising amount of Volkite... *Cough* MDRC *cough* There's no such thing as a "surprising" amount of Volkite. There's "not enough" and "gloriously choomy with room for more" amounts of Volkite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnivision6 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I love this idea. And since I have most of it already...I'm stealing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 @Slipstreams: Lol I thought I was the only one... I can't tell you how much it means to know there is a support group for people addicted to Volkite. Thank you, my friend, for showing me the light.@Norngahl: Consider it done. 2:2 it is how I'll run the Quad Mortars.. I'm really happy you like the list so much, and you've been a massive help making the list as lethal as it is, so thank you again for all the feedback and support.@Balthamal: "Gloriously Choomy" - I love it. Well-played, sir.@Omnivision6: Steal away buddy! I couldn't be happier knowing someone else is running my list - let me know how it does for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 At the risk of borderline threadomancy, I thought I'd post an edited version of this list for when I want to run it with Konrad Curze. It doesn't need him to shine, and the trio of Leviathans is beyond monstrous to run up the table at people. But having the Night Haunter along is just great fun for games when I want a Lord of War. HH Night Lords - Terror Assault (3000pts) HQ Legion Praetor: Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Void Shield Harness, Trophies of Judgment, Chainfist, Digital Lasers, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Teleportation Transponder Legion Terminator Command Squad: 4x Cataphractii Terminator Chosen, 1x Cataphractii Terminator Standard Bearer, 5x Chainfists, 1x Heavy Flamer, Teleportation Transponder Troops Terror Squad: 9x Executioners, 8x Volkite Chargers, 1x Heavy Chainblade, Legion Drop Pod Headsman: Artificer Armour, Power Fist Terror Squad: 9x Executioners, 10x Volkite Charger, Legion Drop Pod Headsman: Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs Terror Squad: 9x Executioners, 10x Volkite Chargers, Legion Drop Pod Headsman: Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs Fast Attack Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter: 2x Two Kraken Penetrator Heavy Missiles, 1x Two Sunfury Heavy Missiles, Battle Servitor Control, Ground-Tracking Auguries Night Raptor Squad: 9x Night Raptors Huntmaster: Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs Heavy Support Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Leviathan Siege Drill, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Calivers, Armoured Ceramite Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Leviathan Storm Cannon, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Calivers, Armoured Ceramite Lord of War Konrad Curze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 No grav bombards on either leviathan? I think that bad boy is far too good to pass up on. Especially because you're footslogging both units across the board, I think both of them each need a ranged weapon arm. A phosphex discharger might be nice to have on one of them as well. Otherwise, looks like a good list, 2 leviathans plus curze running up the board will be brutal. I'd say the only weakness is the list is very reliant on that one primaris lighting-if you fail your reserve roll or it gets shot down, you're going to have a really tough time deal with any spartans that you're up against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 @Lord Asvaldir: Cheers for the feedback, brother. I hear you on the Grav Bombard. In the three-Leviathan list I obviously have one, but I pared him down for the Curze list. My reasoning there was that I wanted to keep one Leviathan with Siege Claw & Siege Drill for the Severing Cut/Armourbane combo against Primarchs and Superheavies, and to have the other provide some dakka as he moved up the field, but could still punch things to death with his other claw in melee. The Storm Cannon offered more in that role than the Grav Bombard, so that's why I chose to keep that one over the other. However, it's such a small point difference it's easily switched should the opponent's army dictate otherwise. The phosphex discharger really didn't do too much for me the couple times I tried it, but I'm man enough to admit that might have been due to operator error rather than the actual weapon lol. I can see your perspective on the Lightning as well, but that hasn't been my experience so far. The Leviathans and the LOW-hunter Praetor & Command Squad have handled Spartans with little trouble, and even in the games when the reserve rolls for the Lightning haven't gone my way nothing with Armour value has proven to difficult to get to over the course of a given game. Another factor is something you yourself called out - with Kurze and two Leviathans moving up the board, most of my opponents' plans tend to devolve to "shoot them shoot them shoot them shoot them!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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