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Grav bombard and rapiers


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#1
depthcharge12

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So I was curious of how one wounds a rapier battery wth the Levi dread equipped with the grav flux bombard. Considering I was thinking of how one of these would annihilate a rapier battery on the drop to let a Spartan go unmolested.

Now the bombard uses a 2d6 STRENGTH test not a toughness test, and the rapier lacks a strength stat, but the gunners do. Yet when the model is shot at, they always use the rapier's majority toughness. So now, is the squad auto removed, or tested on a Strength stat of 4 for the whole unit? And if the rapier is specifically targeted, is it auto removed?
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#2
Slips

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Individual Test for every model, no?

 

Since the Actual Rapier doesnt have strength it'd get more or less auto-wounded since it'd auto-fail the test meaning it'd get removed.

 

Thats how I see it, anyways.

 

What does the BRB say about using Average Stats for Statistics? or does it only describe specific stats?


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#3
Caillum

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It's a tricky one. I would say that the closest model determines it. Most people run a gunner up front, then the Rapier, then the other gunner.

Let's say you land the Large Blast marker dead on the Rapier and hit both crew. That means 3 Strength tests. If you put a gunner up front, he makes Strength tests one at a time until he fails and then move on to the next model in line. The Rapier is next, which means it auto-fails and takes a wound (or auto-fails 2, more than likely). Chances are that you'll kill a gunner and the Rapier, leaving a lone gunner alive.

No really good defence against this, provided I've interpreted it correctly.

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#4
depthcharge12

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Well the plan is to drop the Levi in a pod in a favorable position so that you can just kill the rapiers first. Then the Bolter crew would be essentially worthless. It just auto gibs something nasty like a 3 grav rapier battery instantly if you get the template on them.
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#5
Hesh Kadesh

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Juat follow the rules.

Each model caught in blast rolls Strength on a 2d6 taking a wound if failed.

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#6
depthcharge12

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Juat follow the rules.

Each model caught in blast rolls Strength on a 2d6 taking a wound if failed.


Yes but then does the rapier auto fail because it has no strength stat to speak of?
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#7
Caillum

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Yep, it sure does.

Edited by Caillum, 29 November 2015 - 08:13 AM.

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#8
GreyCrow

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Is it autofail or autopass though ? For example, vehicles lack an initiative characteristic so they autopass blind tests.


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#9
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Thats because their profile has no initiative to speak of. vehicles such as walkers do and can fail initiative tests.

This has Strength on its profile and is listed as having none means that when asked to roll for a characteristics test, it needs to roll equal to or below its stat, in this case 0, failing it instantly.

Edited by Slipstreams, 29 November 2015 - 09:28 AM.

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#10
GreyCrow

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Okay thanks, that makes sense. Out of curiosity, would a natural 1 result in an automatic pass ? I remember seeing somewhere that a roll of 1 is always considered failed.


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#11
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I'd assume so in the same way that 6's can be automatic success' / fails.


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#12
Caillum

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Yeah, with characteristic tests you'll always pass on a 1 & fail on a 6, no matter the characteristic value.

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#13
depthcharge12

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There's no way you'd get a 1 though. It's on a 2d6...
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#14
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Ergo, you auto-fail :P


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#15
Wolf Lord Loki

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Or conversely you cant test against the actual rapier however having hit 3 models thats three tests on the crew who if all dead take the rapier out of commission anyway.
I would argue its like saying if it auto wounds that it damages vehicles as they dont have a wounds characteristic
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#16
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Or conversely you cant test against the actual rapier however having hit 3 models thats three tests on the crew who if all dead take the rapier out of commission anyway.
I would argue its like saying if it auto wounds that it damages vehicles as they dont have a wounds characteristic

Except it states in its rules how it goes about damaging vehicles so its not really an issue :P


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#17
LetsYouDown

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So a 1 can't be rolled as an automatic pass, but a 6 can be rolled via 1+5/2+4/3+3. Are those automatic fails for anything too? :P

 

maybe this is a hornets nest best left unstirred he thinks as he hits the post button



#18
Caillum

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I know it seems like a hornet's nest, but I don't really see what's so complicated about this. The Rapier carriage cannot pass, regardless of being able to roll a 1 or not, as it has no Strength to test on. The rest of it is just as per the rules; number of hits caught in the blast, resolved against the closest models, that "wound" by failing Strength tests on 2D6. :)


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#19
Shaolin_Monkey

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still a little vague at least though, the rapier doesn't have "0" Str (because if it did it would be removed as a casualty as soon as its on the board) it has "-" which is different enough to at least let it stay on the board.
so it must roll equal to or under "-" on 2D6.... but given that "-" has no numerical value how can you clearly assert that 12 is not under it?

 

not saying id play it that way necessarily but its still left vague and not at all as clear as its made out to be by my reading.



#20
1000 Sons

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I think I would agree that it causes 2 hits on the crew, and the gun can't be affected since it has no strength listed.


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#21
LetsYouDown

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It's really not complicated, mostly a joke post. No strength = no pass on rapiers, sure. 

 

My feeling on the 2D6 test is that if you can't roll a natural 1 or 6 on 1D6 the BRB is ignored, because that's all it accounts for (1D6 tests).



#22
SkimaskMohawk

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Guys, straight out of the BRB for characteristic tests

 

 

Automatic Pass and Fail

If a rule states that a characteristic test ‘automatically passes’ then no dice roll is needed; the test is passed. Similarly, if a rule states that a characteristic test ‘automatically fails’, then no dice roll is needed; that test fails. If the model has a characteristic of ‘-’ or 0, it automatically fails the test.

 

If we're going to have rules arguments, at least look them up?



#23
Shaolin_Monkey

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It's really not complicated, mostly a joke post. No strength = no pass on rapiers, sure. 

 

My feeling on the 2D6 test is that if you can't roll a natural 1 or 6 on 1D6 the BRB is ignored, because that's all it accounts for (1D6 tests).

doesn't this same argument mean that it has no strength so as per "Zero-level characteristics" all artillery is "removed from play as a casualty" automatically then?


Guys, straight out of the BRB for characteristic tests

 

 

Automatic Pass and Fail

If a rule states that a characteristic test ‘automatically passes’ then no dice roll is needed; the test is passed. Similarly, if a rule states that a characteristic test ‘automatically fails’, then no dice roll is needed; that test fails. If the model has a characteristic of ‘-’ or 0, it automatically fails the test.

 

If we're going to have rules arguments, at least look them up?

I did look it up. missed the little '-' bit as im looking at it my phone and its a little small. Fair call then, they auto fail. Still doesn't clear up how they can be on the table at all without auto removal though....



#24
SkimaskMohawk

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Some creatures have been given a 0 for certain characteristics, which means that they

have no ability whatsoever in that field (the same is also occasionally represented by a
‘–’).
A model with Weapon Skill ‘0’ is incapacitated; they are hit automatically in close combat
and cannot strike any blows. A model with no Attacks cannot strike any blows in close
combat. A warrior with an Armour Save of ‘–’ has no armour save at all. If at any point,
a model’s Strength, Toughness or Wounds are reduced to 0, it is removed
from play as a casualty.

 

Zero-level characteristics talks about stats being reduced to zero, meaning that starting at zero is perfectly fine; if you buffed the strength of artillery via some psychic power (don't think its possible) and then it ended then it would technically die as its strength had been reduced to 0



#25
Hesh Kadesh

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It isn't strength 0, it is a non ability. '-' +1 isnt 1.

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