Charlo Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 It is called (needles) pedantry guys. When you're shooting at mono save unit like 3+ or 2+, you really only want two sets of colour dice - one that negates sv one that does not. Why would you ever need a different dice for non penetrating shells? Oh definitely. But due to Master crafting being a single miss per heavy bolter and not just all missed, they need to be rolled in sets of 3s, further slowing down the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 It is called (needles) pedantry guys. When you're shooting at mono save unit like 3+ or 2+, you really only want two sets of colour dice - one that negates sv one that does not. Why would you ever need a different dice for non penetrating shells? Because every gun only can re-roll one missed shot. It's like a TSS with Plasma Guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) Oh, I see. But it's still quite easy to solve: Let's say we have full 10 hb squad 0. Roll for AP. 4 HB ignore sv, 6 not. 1. Group your shots - those that ignore sv, those that does not. So: Group one 18 shots. Group two 12 shots. 2.Rerolls: group one (6hb) - 6rerolls group two (4hb) - 4 rerolls. I can't see a point of designating reroll to particular heavy bolter when grouped since you're shooting them at the same time. Am I making some mistake in my reasoning? Edited June 26, 2019 by rendingon1+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 It comes down to probability. Rerolling a flat amount (1per gun) isnt really all that fair (unless both players do it this way) due to one marine possibly rolling 3 1s and only getting 1 reroll while the rest of the squad hits. Using the reroll pool would basically have permitted that one marine to reroll all their misses instead of one. It saves time, sure, but, at the end of the day you might be rerollling more dice than you might have been allowed if you rolled separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 True, damn it. I have never used Armistos, it's either reroll all with divintion librarian or no rerolls at all. Eh. Indeed Armistos interacting with acid shells HHS is pain in the ass for both players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Glad we could part the knowledge unto you, it's not simple if you don't use master-crafting very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Never had problem with that really And the only master crafting I care about is on blades! Brother Liteman 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) See. Just buy different colour/styled dice for every heavy Bolter dude and impress your opponents with your dedication and resourcefulness. 8) Edited June 27, 2019 by Gorgoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 But I won't be using armistos and/or heavy bolter hss anyway. I'll save some money :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 But I won't be using armistos and/or heavy bolter hss anyway. I'll save some money :)BUY THOSE DICE! *heavy breathing*;) rendingon1+ 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadic Thunder Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 So I've been looking back over this thread for some 1st legion inspiration in gidy anticipation of some full-bodied rules in the new book coming (soon-ish? in geological time at least!) and something depthchage suggested with the new legion mortifactor piqued my interest for an in-your-face ironwing list. It's a silly list idea but I thought i'd share it as the thread is kinda quiet right now. It's based around the idea of a mortificator charged with the dubious honour making the first breach into an enemy stronghold The forlorn hope is a mortificator with his charge of 3 cortus dreadnoughts and a recon squad and delegatus in a mastodon. 3000 points ironwing. HQ Delegatus - 115 Artificer armour, refractor field, terranic greatsword, combi-stasis Mortificator - 650 morty, artificer armour, refractor field, combi-stasis, terranic greatsword with 3 x cortus w/ kheres, chainfist, grav-gun each Troops 2 x tacticalsin multi-melta rhino's - 225 each sgt. w/ calibanite warblade, melta bombs, combi-stasis and additional cobat blades on the squad. recon squad - 235 combat blades, sgt. w/combi-stasis, calibanite warblade Heavy Sicaran omega squadron - 440 2 x sicaran omega tank Sicaran punisher squadron - 410 2 x sicaran punisher tank Lord of War Mastodon heavy assault transport - 700 My real hope is that this could work for a dreadwing list once it gets rules as the mad charge described in one of the heresy books by the dreadwing seemed like a true embodiment of grimdark all out war. The recon squad is there to give scout to the mastodon (if it can? can it? i hope it can at least ) and maybe take a mid-field/opponents objective and/or act as the sacrificial lamb once the rolling fortress has disgorged the honoured fallen into the heart of the enemy deployment zone. They've got a rhino so they don't affect the ironwing tanks to other units rule and maybe it could be used to provide some cover for something? The BS5 sicaran squadrons are there for anti-meq & teq (and maybe hope for some rending shorts with the punishers into big hard targets) and i think it's a cool image with a massive assault tank as a point of the spear flanked by fast tanks The two tacticals are because compulsory troops and bjectives. What do you guys think? I don't have the sicarans or the mastodon, but i'm saving up for a centre piece model at the minute and i love the model and i think this could be a fluffy and cool looking list if it worked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanhgg Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Any of you guys have any guess how deathwing will be ruleswise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 The only hint we've had is that it *may* be a rite of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadic Thunder Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Maybe something really niche like despoiler tacticals as the only compulsory troops allowed and you get an extra couple of inches for assault and run distances.... but you must have more sword weilding models than all other models on the table or you give away d3 victory points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCore67 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) So I've been looking back over this thread for some 1st legion inspiration in gidy anticipation of some full-bodied rules in the new book coming (soon-ish? in geological time at least!) and something depthchage suggested with the new legion mortifactor piqued my interest for an in-your-face ironwing list. It's a silly list idea but I thought i'd share it as the thread is kinda quiet right now. It's based around the idea of a mortificator charged with the dubious honour making the first breach into an enemy stronghold The forlorn hope is a mortificator with his charge of 3 cortus dreadnoughts and a recon squad and delegatus in a mastodon. 3000 points ironwing. HQ Delegatus - 115 Artificer armour, refractor field, terranic greatsword, combi-stasis Mortificator - 650 morty, artificer armour, refractor field, combi-stasis, terranic greatsword with 3 x cortus w/ kheres, chainfist, grav-gun each Troops 2 x tacticalsin multi-melta rhino's - 225 each sgt. w/ calibanite warblade, melta bombs, combi-stasis and additional cobat blades on the squad. recon squad - 235 combat blades, sgt. w/combi-stasis, calibanite warblade Heavy Sicaran omega squadron - 440 2 x sicaran omega tank Sicaran punisher squadron - 410 2 x sicaran punisher tank Lord of War Mastodon heavy assault transport - 700 My real hope is that this could work for a dreadwing list once it gets rules as the mad charge described in one of the heresy books by the dreadwing seemed like a true embodiment of grimdark all out war. The recon squad is there to give scout to the mastodon (if it can? can it? i hope it can at least ) and maybe take a mid-field/opponents objective and/or act as the sacrificial lamb once the rolling fortress has disgorged the honoured fallen into the heart of the enemy deployment zone. They've got a rhino so they don't affect the ironwing tanks to other units rule and maybe it could be used to provide some cover for something? The BS5 sicaran squadrons are there for anti-meq & teq (and maybe hope for some rending shorts with the punishers into big hard targets) and i think it's a cool image with a massive assault tank as a point of the spear flanked by fast tanks The two tacticals are because compulsory troops and bjectives. What do you guys think? I don't have the sicarans or the mastodon, but i'm saving up for a centre piece model at the minute and i love the model and i think this could be a fluffy and cool looking list if it worked? I could be wrong but don't units only confer rules to dedicated transports? Don't get me wrong I love the Mastodon but it's a waste if you're only putting a recon squad in it. You also don't have much scoring. Opponent could easily shut you down that way. Edited October 4, 2019 by ShadowCore67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 The 5 recon marines do not bestow scout upon the Mastodon. See page 171 BRB under the 'Scout' USR. As has been pointed out, this list might tank hard (pun intended) due to its lack of scoring units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel975 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Heavy Sicaran omega squadron - 440 2 x sicaran omega tank Sicaran punisher squadron - 410 2 x sicaran punisher tank The BS5 sicaran squadrons are there for anti-meq & teq (and maybe hope for some rending shorts with the punishers into big hard targets) and i think it's a cool image with a massive assault tank as a point of the spear flanked by fast tanks Where does it say you can have squadrons of sicarans? I keep looking for that and have to assume I missed a FAQ somewhere.... Can I put more than one sicaran in each elite slot as squadrons? Is it two or three in the squad? If so, that puts a ridiculous twist on my Armored Breakthrough ROW Army.... I can only field three sicarans in the four elite slots (because i have to keep one open for Terminators with a Spartan, thats just cool), and use one more for the Master of Armor... As is, I can only field 18 predators in the troop slots or swap out two squads for breachers with LR. Elsewhere the heavy slots are taken up with two squads of 3LR and 1 squad of Vindicators. Throw in a Fellblade for good tanky measure... The new Saber Tank fits super noice into the army FOC as well, because I can throw 6 of them into the fast slots... thats fluffy, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwrath121 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Heavy Sicaran omega squadron - 440 2 x sicaran omega tank Sicaran punisher squadron - 410 2 x sicaran punisher tank The BS5 sicaran squadrons are there for anti-meq & teq (and maybe hope for some rending shorts with the punishers into big hard targets) and i think it's a cool image with a massive assault tank as a point of the spear flanked by fast tanks Where does it say you can have squadrons of sicarans?I keep looking for that and have to assume I missed a FAQ somewhere.... Can I put more than one sicaran in each elite slot as squadrons? Is it two or three in the squad? Book 8 has updated rules/points for the Omega, Punisher, and Arcus. It added in the ability for the Omega and Punisher (only those two) to be taken in units of 1-2. Archangel975 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 What are your opinions on our three new units? I’d be tempted to replace the interemptors with some MAS HB jetbikes, but they have ignores cover and the FA slots have become pretty contested with using Dreadclaws, sabres, javelins, and termites. I think the inner circle guys are a must and should be used to bully non deathstar units. DAs is looking like shoot anything with a 2+, stab it if it’s got a 3+ or T5+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Depends what you want them to do an vs who. I know I'll use them vs NL guy in my group who runs annoying Curzestar with 20 assaults + characters under terror assault. depthcharge12 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwrath121 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 I think the Inner Circle knights with thunderhammers and the right choice of order are arguably some of the best offensive terminators in the game. Five with all hammers is 5pts less than the same amount of Justaerin with power-fists. In a situation where I know I'll be stuck against some nasty 2+ armour deathstars, I'd definitely consider the all-hammer knights with Breaker of Hordes or Slayers of Kings. Joys of magnetising, in my case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Depends what you want them to do an vs who. I know I'll use them vs NL guy in my group who runs annoying Curzestar with 20 assaults + characters under terror assault. I’m curious what your plans are - I have a similar buddy that runs recon company Blood Angels with a giant assault blob and characters. Cover, perdition blades, and FNP are a pain in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) Depends what you want them to do an vs who. I know I'll use them vs NL guy in my group who runs annoying Curzestar with 20 assaults + characters under terror assault.I’m curious what your plans are - I have a similar buddy that runs recon company Blood Angels with a giant assault blob and characters. Cover, perdition blades, and FNP are a pain in the ass. Weeeell... Not sure yet. Will probably use a hijacked phobos land raider (dude is big on skyfire interceptors) and will try to:a ) disembrk as close as I can and shoot b )knowing they willl die anyway charge them to get those rad grenades working Knowing this dude I plan to pull that off turn 2. I'll keep them at 7, no phospex, no missles, one big gun, attached master of signals (for+1BS and crazy orbital) with artificer, refractor and axe. Of course there will be other heavy hitting unit: cenobium(?hmmmmm) or some cortus talon. One stasis shot from any source will be necessary too. Ehhh... Scrap that. I did the math, not enough damage from the interemptors, lot of maneouvring, positioning and counting on my opponent playing curzestar like he did before. I tried to be smart:( Edited March 5, 2020 by rendingon1+ depthcharge12 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 It sounded nasty and I forgot about the MoS being able to attach since they don’t have the lone killers rule like normal destroyers. What about a terrax? Cheap and cheerful and can spawn underneath Curze. rendingon1+ 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Only moritat has that special rule, you can attach any character you like to the destroyer squad :-) I have to think on it, we have a game next monday, last one before the campaign and I really need that victory :-D Good news is no LoWs of any kind on campaign haha Tommorow I'll come here with a mindblowing solution, be sure of that. What can you expect of your BA opponent listwise? Are you dead set on interemptors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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