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Black Shields Tactica

Shattered Legions Knights Errant Black Shields

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#1
exsanguis

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Hey guys,

 

I figure it would be great to have a single thread for discussion on Shattered Legion tactics and ideas. This is the dump by Garro from Heresy 30k for those who haven't kept up to date with all the leaks from the Weekender:

 

Black shields

  • is a new version of the legiones astartes rule, and uses the standard legion crusade army list
  • adds +1 to the roll to see who goes first
  • are 'by the emperors/horus's command' allies to legions, and fellow warriors to non-legion army lists
  • may not take praetors, command squads, tactical squads, drop pods, dreadnought drop pods or deathstorm drop pods
  • can't use rites of war, but can use the alternative FoCs.
  • may only take a single consul of any kind
  • must have more vehicles than infantry units

may take one or none of the following collections of rules

  • gain FNP(6+) but must pass a leadership test to end the movement phase further away from a visible enemy unit then they started. if test is failed they move D6" towards the closest enemy unit they can see
  • gain +1 leadership and rerolls 1s to hit while within 6" of another friendly blackshield unit, however they may not use the leadership value of other models and suffer D3 casualties if they fail a leadership test in the assault phase in addition to other effects. characters gain preferred enemy instead and can not take chaplains nor ally with other astartes
  • up to half of the  infantry units without a dedicated transport gains deep strike but suffers D3 casualties if mishaps in addition to other effects, may take additional wargear options, characters may take rad grenades, after half of the blackshield units have been killed, each turn after, each unit must pass a leadership test or be removed from play
  • may choose one of the following options but may not take allies
    option 1: +1 str, +1 toughness, -1I, -1" to charge range, may not sweeping advance
    option 2: +1ws, +1bs, -2ld
    option 3: gains fear, fleet and rage, -1bs 
  • black shields may take a range of replacement wargear options called 'pariah' each confers a bonus over the original wargear, but has a negative attachment as well. won't list them here.
  • may take a blackshield reaver lord, basically a speical praetor with different wargear options, all the basics are there, plus the pariah gear and some others, while some 'fancy' praetor gear isn't.
  • black shields have a named character called 'nemean reaver' who is believed to be a former dark angel, may also be taken as a knight errant and replaces his blackshield special rules for the knight errant rules for a price.
  • main basic squad is the 'marauders' 5-20 basic marines with lots of basic options and 1in5 can take special/heavy weapons

 

Hopefully we can get some more concrete info (i.e. stat lines and wargear) for Marauder Squads soon.

 

My ideas for a Shattered Legions or Black Shields army:

A Knight Errant leading a force made up of Loyalist men from the Traitor Legions. Maybe a mixture of survivors from Istvaan 3 that managed to escape. The KE is there to not only reaffirm their loyalty to the Imperium to any other forces they might come across, but also to ensure that they ARE loyal in the first place. He is essentially there to keep an eye on them...

 

I am curious, however, whether the Shattered Legions or Black Shields list fit these guys better? The Marauder Squad does sound very cool - a big Tac blob but with added plasma guns or heavy weapons? Sweet! I would probably also choose the option that increases their WS and BS by 1, but reduces their Ld by 2 in order to show that they're damned tough marines for surviving the Istvaan 3 massacre, but their faith in themselves and their Legion/The Imperium has been shattered. At any moment they could just escape into anonymity on the fringes of Imperial space and leave all the carnage behind them...

 

Personally, I will probably go for the Shattered Legions list and just take two (or three!) HQ's from different Legions and use one of their Rites of War. I'm sure there are many broken/dodgy combinations of Legion Rules and Rites of War that could be abused. Whilst I don't think that's what 30k is about, it's always worth discussing them! I don't know for certain, but I'm imagining if they haven't banned the Iron Hands "Inviolate Armour" legion rule then that's going to be a really popular one to abuse. Take an IH HQ of some description and sprinkle in units from other Legions to taste!

 

I look forward to hearing everyone elses thoughts on these new army lists!


Edited by Slipstreams, 09 February 2016 - 03:49 AM.
Split Up The Tactica into relevant Threads.


#2
depthcharge12

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I'm still looking at the rules, but I'd love to hear a discussion on them!
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#3
Charlo

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Enjoy your S/T5 Marines. Nuff said :D
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#4
Player 404

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While their rules look promising, I'm somewhat disappointed that regular Tactical Squads cannot be taken in Blackshield detachments; considering RoW are ruled out, we're thus limited to Assault and Breacher squads as the only units that can be used to fill the compulsory troop choices. I personally would have preferred despoiler squads to assault squads to fill out my troops...

I like the possibilities the Pariah wargear provides, especially the Pariah PA and Pariah Bolters.

I'm still thinking about the possibilities, they need more thought before I can finally figure out which (Blackshields or Shattered Legion) I prefer...

My main attraction to the BS, however, remains from a modelling standpoint, so rules are not that much of a worry, truth be told.
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#5
Charlo

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Marauder squads I think are compulsory troops too. Haven't seen the rules yet though.

#6
depthcharge12

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Haha I like that too - as I'm of the assaulty mindset, you can get some great upgrades with the Chymirae (the last one I think). Fear, fleet, and rage are superb at the cost of -1 BS. I'd say to take pariah bolters, but shooting them would likely result in you losing rage due to disordered charge. But to overcome this, you can take the over pressured flamers :evil:

The only issue might result in you increasing your charge range due to killed models - however you've got fleet, so I wouldn't worry too much.

You could also take Pariah armor so that you can keep running and firing (though snap shots will be nominal).


Aka, running marines in this manner means "we don't need no stinking assault transports!"

But still, Dreadclaws aren't technically legion drop pods as per the wording, so you can take them as well to negate a lot of the firepower you'll be facing.
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#7
Player 404

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Ahh, hadn't realized there was (were) new unit type(s); just saw the general "Legiones Astartes (Black Shields)" rule which prohibits Praetors, Comman squads, Tacticals and all drop pods... If there's a new Troop option then yeah, that's good news, although I wonder what the unit options looks like smile.png

I'm really tempted by a Outsiders force, although I'll have to wait until I can order a copy of the book before I really look into all the possibilities they offer.

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#8
depthcharge12

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I think it was mentioned that marauders are 5-20 marines with 1 per 5 able to take special weapons. Don't know the points costs however.
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#9
Doctor Perils

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The black shield rules seem perfect for representing the "Experimental Company" I'd created as a DIY for raven guard :) It's unfortunate that they were still aligned to the Imperium and my Iron Warriors more independent, but that's a whole other story :P


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#10
Nusquam

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Marauders are troops, can go up to 20 and have access to a lot of weapons and 1in5 options too.

 

I thought Shattered Legions woudl be perfect ofr XIX Predation Fleets but looks like Blackshield Outlanders do it better. I'm not sold on the Xeno Deathlock though. Risky with minimal reward against marines. Great against anything with a 5+ or worse though.



#11
Sentinel Guy

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So I take it tactical support squads can't have the overcharged flamers?

Still waiting for solid news on the reaver lord and marauders. Anyone know the details?

#12
Charlo

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So I take it tactical support squads can't have the overcharged flamers?

Still waiting for solid news on the reaver lord and marauders. Anyone know the details?


Assuming you can take support squads you could indeed take the cool overcharge flamers, rules say you can exchange any normal weapon for the Pariah version.

#13
Nusquam

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This thread was just Blackshields. Having one for BS, SL, and KE makes sense since they're so different.



#14
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#15
depthcharge12

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So is anyone else is as excited as me to see them in mkV armor? It looks freakin sweet!

Too bad they don't have the mkV despoilers yet :(

Has anyone thought of what vehicles they would take considering the limitations? I also seem to have noticed in snapshots of rules that Marauder squads can take Dreadclaws as DTs.

I see them as a very close range shooty/assault army without peer. Lots of buffs to cc and a lot of attacks. Considering most weapons in cc won't be S6, and if they are, they're likely AP3 anyway, id highly recommend Chymirae armor for the extra run and shoot with bolters.

Honestly, if you took the Chymirae rule too, you'd be firing at a lower BS, but have a higher propensity for cc, so running and firing snap shots doesn't hurt you that much, and gets you much closer to the enemy more quickly.
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#16
Nusquam

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So i'm trying to like the xenos deathlock for an Outlander list. If anything it's a cheap S5 assault 2 bolter. But what besides terminators get access to a combi bolter besides HQs? Vehicles, but they don't have LA(BS). Their special deathlock rule triggers at the end of the phase so if multiple units fire one into the same it stacks so that's cool. Just not sure if taking them en masse like termis is actually worth it. They aren't one shot like combi-plasma, but not as straight killy either. Facing hordes, thralls, militia then that changes and they're great. But vs marines? 20 shots will probably end up netting the +d6 AP- autowounds, but you could probably of just taken combi plas and obliterated the unit anyway. Anything I'm missing?

 

Also just realized Maruaders can dualwield pistols. I'm all in.

 

The free swap for the pariah equivalent weapon is interesting too. The pariah armor I see zero advantage in. Allowing snapshots of light weapons after running is cool but you can't assault after running anyway. If it allowed you to assault too then it would be well worth it. Maybe if you were running away from a disadvantageous fight. It feels like Battle Focus lite with a huge trade off.

 

The pariah bolter is good considering its a free swap for any bolter. Not sure what to use them on. Maybe Marauders since they have A2 base and disordered won't hurt so bad if you don't have the rage rule. They're dual wielding anyway so they have A3 on the charge, chief has A4. But the potential for A4/5 is great, especially with hidden power weapons. Take some rad grenades and the +1S option for some S6 vs T3 ID goodness.

 

The pariah flame is great. A torrent flamer? Sign me up. Even with gets hot it's worth it. Like mentioned before, support squads with these will be particularly effective. Droping them in using deep strike in an Outlander list sounds particularly scary.



#17
Player 404

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Marauder gunslingers? Holy Terra, that just made my day!

I really like the potential Outlanders offers. Speaking of which, what do people think of rad grenade sargeants? Would you rather keep him safe to make sure he makes it to CC, or still use him to tank with AA and risk losing the buff?

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#18
Galron

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Looks like a cool fluffy force. Would definitely work well as a 30k/40k crossover army since the weapon options available.


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#19
Charlo

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Anyone got the Marauder rules, and the special characters for that matter?

#20
depthcharge12

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Anyone got the Marauder rules, and the special characters for that matter?


There were some rules posted on the weekender thread, but I don't want to seem like a mooch lol. I want to see the Nemean's rules.

WHEN WILL THEY RELEASE IT FOR US PEASANTS?!?!
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#21
Nusquam

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So I did some crunching. Blackshields do feel like the Marine version of the Militia army and there are a lot of option. It feel likes they went "full-on have fun with it". That said, there are some great options both thematically and crunch wise but a few fell short awkwardly from the excitement ha.

 

I still can't figure out a situation where pariah armour is worth it. The best I can think of is if running got you into range, where you wouldn't have beeen otherwise and are still outside of assault range, to get some shots off. That's an awkward 13-18" ring though. And I can't think of a single ranged S6+ weapon that doesn't have at least AP5 to just cut though their would be 5+ armour. Like I said before if it was just poor plating but intact servos it could allow a run+charge but be disordered it might be worth on assault marines and the like.

 

Looking at the pariah bolter, it would have been great on tacticals. Even if they lost FotL due to ill discipline. Everything else can take a shotgun(marauders, recons, and seekers special ammo changes the profile to rapid fire/heavy anyway) which is borderline strictly better. It's also technically better than dual bolts because its cheaper on the marauders(and since it doesn't replace anything they are still dual wielding for +1A), but by one point and I'm a sucker for gunslinger personally.

 

So the Nemean Reaver is a beast. He's plain good and has my personal fav Wrought rule, Outlanders. He can be changed into a Knight Errant which is awesome too.

 

The Reaver Lord starts off expensive but has an entire armoury of wargear. He can easily get a 3++ from a Halo+Familiar. Taking termi has no crunch advantage, it cuts out most of his great options like a cyber familiar(for a hands free 3++), rad grenades, digital laser etc. I'm not sure if it was intentional though.

 

Marauders are awesome. They each have a chainsword or axe(always take the axe) and bolt pistol and start off at 25ppm, 18ppm at 10, and are 15.25ppm at 20 for a base A2+1 marine, plus the WS5 A3+1 chief. Each guy can take a shotgun for dirt cheap, which might be the best option for an edge in mass shooting. They each can take a lascutter too which is hilarious. Also heavy chainswords but axes cover a lot for free. Then 1in5 can take just about any imperial marine special(hello pariah flamer) and portable heavy weapon. As well as a xenos deathlock or power weapon. Hidden power weapons is always good, and they're only 2MBs. Also at 10 marines or less they can take a rhino, proteus, or anvillus. Overall this unit is solid for any play style and the options are great.


Edited by Nusquam, 09 February 2016 - 11:28 PM.

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#22
Doctor Perils

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I still can't figure out a situation where pariah armour is worth it. The best I can think of is if running got you into range, where you wouldn't have beeen otherwise and are still outside of assault range, to get some shots off. That's an awkward 13-18" ring though. And I can't think of a single ranged S6+ weapon that doesn't have at least AP5 to just cut though their would be 5+ armour. Like I said before if it was just poor plating but intact servos it could allow a run+charge but be disordered it might be worth on assault marines and the like.

I'd understood that as being save 3+ in all cases, except if a weapon is S6 Ap4+, in which case you can only save on 5+. There might be full examples in the book though.


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#23
Nusquam

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I though that from the rumors too, but upon reading the entry AP5 or better still cuts through. It's 3+ unless against S6+ weapons where the AP wouldn't normally penetrate it, IE AP3. It doesn't "degrade", it's changed to flat 5+ and thus susceptible to AP4/5.


Edited by Nusquam, 10 February 2016 - 12:36 AM.


#24
Charlo

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Just saw the rules for the Reaver. Hot Damn he's incredible. A must take.

#25
Player 404

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I still can't figure out a situation where pariah armour is worth it. The best I can think of is if running got you into range, where you wouldn't have beeen otherwise and are still outside of assault range, to get some shots off. That's an awkward 13-18" ring though. And I can't think of a single ranged S6+ weapon that doesn't have at least AP5 to just cut though their would be 5+ armour. Like I said before if it was just poor plating but intact servos it could allow a run+charge but be disordered it might be worth on assault marines and the like.

I'd understood that as being save 3+ in all cases, except if a weapon is S6 Ap4+, in which case you can only save on 5+. There might be full examples in the book though.
  

I though that from the rumors too, but upon reading the entry AP5 or better still cuts through. It's 3+ unless against S6+ weapons where the AP wouldn't normally penetrate it, IE AP3. It doesn't "degrade", it's changed to flat 5+ and thus susceptible to AP4/5.

That both amounts to pretty much the same reading...
If you take a S6+ hit with AP 3 or less, or a S5- hit with AP anything, Pariah armour is just as good as regular armour.
The only situations where Pariah armour is worse is when the hit is both S6+ and AP4 or worse (in which case your save drops from 3+ to 5+ or disappears altogether)...

'We're definitely on the wrong side, Khârn.'
'How can you say that?'
'Because both sides are wrong.'
- Argel Tal, in Betrayer






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