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Black Shields Tactica

Shattered Legions Knights Errant Black Shields

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625 replies to this topic

#26
Slips

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So, really, one of the Few Times Pariah Armor is worse is when you're up against Multilasers who are S6 Ap6 or Autocannons at S7 Ap4


Edited by Slipstreams, 10 February 2016 - 01:59 AM.

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#27
shandwen

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So, really, one of the Few Times Pariah Armor is worse is when you're up against Multilasers who are S6 Ap6 or Autocannons at S7 Ap4

And the ever so present kerxes assault cannons.

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#28
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Welp, if you know your up against BA never take it then since the current craze for them is to Assault Cannon ALL the things!


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#29
Sete

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Yep found my thing. This is it boys!
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#30
Jalgar

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I have one question for someone who has Retribution already. In the top post it states a Blackshield army must have more vehicles than infantry units. Is this correct or is it the other way around?

#31
Centurion Jay

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I have one question for someone who has Retribution already. In the top post it states a Blackshield army must have more vehicles than infantry units. Is this correct or is it the other way around?


I do believe its the other way around, reflecting the fact that they arent as well supplied. If you take a look at the BS topic in the main age of darkness forum there are shots of the pages from the book saying this i do believe.

A question of my own, for the purposes of 1 special weapon per 5 marauders, is the sergeant included in this, allowing for 4 special weapons in a 20 man squad?

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#32
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Yeah, must have more Infantry than Vehicles.
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#33
Hesh Kadesh

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RAW, no. For every 5 Marauders means you need 5 Marauders, not 4 Marauders are 1 Sergeant. For reference between the differences, check a Veteran Squad, which states "every 5 models, one Vet may exchange" or similar. Whether that's intentional or not, is unclear. Perhaps GW wanted to prevent you from spamming special weapons so gave us a 10pt tax to do so? 


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#34
Sete

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Yeah, must have more Infantry than Vehicles.

Ah cool. Was worried about this cause im more of an Infantry player. Good news.

#35
Centurion Jay

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What are peoples thoughts on the best Marauder squad builds then?

 

A full 20 man squad all with chainaxes sounds brutal, would you sprinkle in power weapons with the 5-man tax or other weapons such as plasmaguns etc?


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#36
Black Cohort

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maybe pariah flamers?  4 torrent flame templates hitting a target is painful.


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#37
Brother Aiwass

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I was thinking on 10 man squad, with pariah bolters, a deathlock and a meltagun, with a combimelta for the chief, embarked on a rhino. For flamer spam support squad wtih pariah flamers deepstriking with the Outlanders special rule perhaps?


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#38
N1SB

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Marauders are awesome. They each have a chainsword or axe(always take the axe) and bolt pistol and start off at 25ppm, 18ppm at 10, and are 15.25ppm at 20 for a base A2+1 marine, plus the WS5 A3+1 chief. Each guy can take a shotgun for dirt cheap, which might be the best option for an edge in mass shooting. They each can take a lascutter too which is hilarious. Also heavy chainswords but axes cover a lot for free. Then 1in5 can take just about any imperial marine special(hello pariah flamer) and portable heavy weapon. As well as a xenos deathlock or power weapon. Hidden power weapons is always good, and they're only 2MBs. Also at 10 marines or less they can take a rhino, proteus, or anvillus. Overall this unit is solid for any play style and the options are great.

 

Nusquam, I'm totally on-board with your take on this.  Marauders w/ Chainaxes and Shotguns, with Xenos Deathlock and/or hidden Power Weapons.  You really helped me out to figure out a reliable loadout so that I can focus on the fluff and look & feel of my Blackshields.

 

My question is, though, which Wrought By War trait you would suggest for this loadout please?  Fear + Fleet + Rage is interesting, but I'm also wondering about the +S +T one.  If you already analysed this, we'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

Edit - Nusquam, I know you mentioned the Outlander one for your own interests, I'm just wondering if you would suggest someone else for others.  Thanks in advance.  Also, I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts, of course.  I'm still brainstorming.


Edited by Not 1 Step Backwards, 17 February 2016 - 11:55 AM.

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#39
Nusquam

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It depends on how many you're taking in each squad. Big blobs scale well, and even 10 are cheap comparatively for what you get.

 

Marauders will always be a midrange unit. It's strange that they can take things like lascannons and Heavy bolters when they cap out at 4 with 20 marauders. Especially since you still have access to Heavy Support squads. So for the sake of normal efficiency they'll be kitted for mid-short range.

 

Fear+Fleet+Rage is a great go-to if you want to go for Maruader Blobs(that's 101 attacks), Outriders(the bikes), Terminators, anything geared for going full on CC etc. For Marauders with this you would benefit from power weapons the most. In order to make full use of this you'll want lot's of CC units. It's lost on units made for shooting like Seekers, Heavy Support Squads, Rapiers, etc.

 

The +1S/T is great for short range engagements, including firefights. They can get in close and survive longer, helping Marauders close the gap, while not being slouches in CC if need be. Seekers, Termis, Scimitars, Breachers, Vets, Plasma Support squads come to mind. This one you can make a larger variety of lists. Marines will get a bonus to defense and those up close will get the bonus to offense too. Plus it's just a flat +1 and not dependent on you getting the charge, so your units that have rapid fire weapons, or just any unit that gets charged will still have it's bonus.

 

So both work on the type of unit Marauders are. The rest of your list, and perhaps personal taste, will determine which works for you best. If you like getting close and tearing it up in CC(like World Eaters) I would go for the Rage one, if you like getting close and unloading weapons while marching down your enemies(Like Death Guard) go for the +1S/T. Plus you aren't 'stuck' with either choice. They are effectively Rites of War, and not bound to any one paint job.


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#40
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Pariah bolters almost seem worthless compared to just taking two bolt pistols lol. With 2 BPs you get an extra attack in cc (not counting the extra charge attack since pariah bolters don't let you) while still retaining the same firepower output.
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#41
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Pariah Bolters are Assault 2 so you can charge anyways. Also, dont Black Shields come stock with BP & Chainsword/Axe + Bolter/Pariah Bolter?


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#42
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Pariah Bolters are Assault 2 so you can charge anyways. Also, dont Black Shields come stock with BP & Chainsword/Axe + Bolter/Pariah Bolter?


You can charge, but you don't get the extra attack since it counts as disordered.
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#43
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Oh well.


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#44
Lord-Commander Macarian

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So how strong would this be for an Allied Detachment: 

 

Blackshields Allied Detachment (Chimeriae +1S/+1T/-1I)

 

Reaver Lord

-Artificer Armour

-Double Lightning Claws

-Rad Grenades

-Jump Pack

 

20 Assault Marines

-4 Power Axes

-Sergeant with Artificer Armour/Power Axe

 

655 Points 

 

+++EDIT: or replace the Reaver Lord with a Primus Medicae, no Rad Grenades, but toughness 5 combined with a 4+ FnP and you're still wounding on 2's with the Power Axes+++

 

Fast, many bodies, 4 hidden Power Axes, often getting Instant Death (S6 vs. T3). This feels like a very dangerous unit and takes care of any CC needs of a list.


Edited by Lord-Commander Macarian, 17 February 2016 - 10:18 PM.

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#45
Nusquam

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Well you get the dual-wielding bonus, so they will still have +1 for that for a total of 3 attacks. They just won't have the +1 for the charge to up it to 4. The only thing the Pariah Bolters offers is AP5 and 4" over the shotgun, but the shotgun(also cheaper) is assault so you get the charge bonus. If you face a lot of 5+ saves you could make a point for the bolter since they come stock with AP4 chainswords so losing the charge bonus isn't a big deal. You'll likely take out the whole squad anyway. But against marines the shotgun outshines it so they can edge out in CC on the charge.


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#46
AlphariusOmegon108

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So how strong would this be for an Allied Detachment:

Blackshields Allied Detachment (Chimeriae +1S/+1T/-1I)

Reaver Lord
-Artificer Armour
-Double Lightning Claws
-Rad Grenades
-Jump Pack

20 Assault Marines
-4 Power Axes
-Sergeant with Artificer Armour/Power Axe

655 Points

+++EDIT: or replace the Reaver Lord with a Primus Medicae, no Rad Grenades, but toughness 5 combined with a 4+ FnP and you're still wounding on 2's with the Power Axes+++

Fast, many bodies, 4 hidden Power Axes, often getting Instant Death (S6 vs. T3). This feels like a very dangerous unit and takes care of any CC needs of a list.


wait.. With this trait, they cant take allies. But they CAN be taken as allies? That seems odd

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#47
Brother Aiwass

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I would need advice for making some choices.

In the consul type which I read the Blackshields can only have one what are good? I playing with the idea of a vigilator to join the recce unit (theme for my future company is war veterans really pissed off and gone rogue, but not necesarily aligned with the traitors. Think in Metal Gear/A Team type) or a siege breaker to get as many phosphex I can in the field (riding a bike, w/3 phosphex grenades and in a outrider squad all with TL meltas for the tank hunter bonus, while a medusa is camping in the back supported by a techmarine w/ conversion beamer). Special rules will be orphans of war or void reavers.

If the vigilator is chosed, will change the medusa for a scorpius whirlwind I think, because is nasty and I really want to convert one.

Not sure how equip the marauders. Currently I have this setup:

 

Marauder Squad x10 man (pariah bolter x8, deathlock, melta, c-melta, MB, rhino) - 274

But too expensive I think. Pariah bolter is chosen because I don't have that many shotguns. Also not sure if I want to go spearhead (3x rhino, 1x predator, 1x scorpius/medusa and a contemptor) or go with deepstrike and rad grenades for everyone. Points are set at 2k in my gaming group so that limits me a bit.

Any imput will be welcome.


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#48
Nusquam

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Well the siege breaker only confers tank hunters to heavy weapons that fire, meltaguns are assault. The siege breaker does give you access to phosphex canisters for rapiers now though.

 

The Deathlock isn't bad, but it needs saturation to work well. One isn't going do a lot unless you face things with really low leadership a lot.


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#49
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Imo the best trait is easily the +1 Strength and Toughness as it mitigates their armour reduction from a lot of weapons.

Blackshields sound really cool, I have no idea how I'd equip a squad. I wish they had access to more weird xenos weapons.

Can they simply be taken as allies?

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#50
Lord-Commander Macarian

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Spoiler

 


wait.. With this trait, they cant take allies. But they CAN be taken as allies? That seems odd

 

 

Well the rules are very specific, stating under the Chymeriae section of the wrought by war rules (quote): Shunned and Distrusted: A Legiones Astartes (Blackshields) Primary Detachment with this special rule may not have an Allied Detachment.

 

So, it says nothing about their ability to be taken as allies and so they follow the general blackshields rules of being allowed as Allied Detachements. They are off course at the lowest tier, being by order of the Emperor/Warmaster.

 

Personally, I like it, it reflects that Chymeriae on the loose are considered dangerous mutants, but can still be used as experimental weapons alongside a more traditional force.

 

EDIT: 

I have toying around with Marauder builds and I think a nice way of running them is this: 

10 Marauders: 

-Bolt Pistols/Chainaxes/Shotguns

-1 Plasma Gun (due to the odd wording in the unit entry you can't get 2 in a ten man squad)

-Pariah Armour

-Chief w/ Power Fist

-Rhino

 

260 Points

 

You drive around shooting the Plasma Gun while moving up the field to objectives. When the Rhino gets wrecked, charge towards the nearest unit of Infantry or hold an Objective. Despite the defensive weakness of Pariah Armour, the Rhino can keep them safe initially and later in the game they can still keep getting their shotguns in range.


Edited by Lord-Commander Macarian, 18 February 2016 - 12:41 PM.

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