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[MHMT] Dorn's loss of Unwieldy, Siggy's WS8, Reaping Strike?


Kastor Krieg

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... or MathHammer Me This, please ;)

How does Reaping Strike, the new rule on Dorn's chainsword, work? How does it affect his combat value?

 

How do Dorn alone and Siggy fare in a challenge with Siggy's WS8 when with Phalanx Warders now, against Primarchs? Last year's rule threads said Dorn was a low-tier and Siggy *barely* could stand against Primarchs. I'd guess without Unwieldy Dorn is formidable now, mid tier at least. I'd assume Siggs with WS8 to be an even match for the weakest Primarchs?

Thanks in advance, very curious :)

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No astartes should be able to match a primarch. Such a thing is silly. He might tie him up for a turn or two, but never kill him. (Fulgrim might even allow it)

 

Dorn and morty seem a bit more usable now. Not sure how they are tiered. Dorn gives quite a few buffs out doesn't he?

 

Truth is it's a little premature to tell, as we don't have the rules in black and white in front of us, just hearsay, mate reliable hearsay but depends how thins are worded

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Though Ive seen some Napkin Math that gives Sigismund fairly good odds at killing Lorgar un-buffed.

 

On average though, with only 4 EW wounds and 4 Attacks, he is never going to beat another Primarch.

 

The probability of it occuring is there and very real; its just unlikely to happen outside of bad dice rolls.

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Repeat after me. You don't put Primarchs against Primarchs, unless you want to stop your opponents Primarch doing what a Primarch does, in which case you put him in a Pod and Deep Strike him into combat with said Primarch. In which case, you might as well have not taken a Primarch and just play your game anyway.

 

Against a Primarch, he's I4. He's still going last, so he's not any more formidable. If you're up against another Primarch, you're trading +1 to WS for -2 Toughness and loss of the Auric Armour. 

 

Sigismund has never been a match for a Primarch. Each model does a wound a turn, and non-Saiyan Lorgar has more with IWND. If Angron or Corax fluff their attacks 2-3 turns running, and Corax is being run by a potato and doesn't Hit and Run, MAYBE Sigi has a slight chance. 

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Dorn  while more attractive now still loses to the Glaive in a lot of my lists , I guess with that new Primarch as HQ rite of war he may be more viable but  by and large hes still a force multiplier not a beatstick.  

Sigismund is not meant to fight primarchs  he will do just fine against other things.   

In my play experience he has been extremely valuable for what ive used him for but  even with a killy bodyguard he still lacks the killing power to deal with  primarchs.  I

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Sigismund eventually loses to all the primarchs, though he may hold out until the game ends if you're lucky. Dorn's buff is very welcome, but I think it's being way overblown. Very little kills a Primarch before they can strike anyway. He's still mediocre in combat, still has a useless gun, and is still stuck with some situational army buffs alongside some solid ones.
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Lose unwieldy, but strike at -1 Init, but gain bonus attacks when in base Contact with more than one enemy. Thanks to that, he can charge, enemy piles in at I4, has 6+D3 S6 Shred AP2 or (6+D3)/2 round down S8 Shred (ID?) AP2 attacks on the charge.

 

He has 7-9 Terminator killing attacks on the charge. And people still think he is mediocre.

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Well, he is clearly an elite infantry killer and an effective one at that, but still not a master duellist when it comes to battling one on one against a strong character.

He'll easily defeat any non primarch character, but works best if someone else is there to accept a challenge instead of him. He's definitely effective against high toughness monstrous creatures too, thanks to Instant Death, more so than most other Primarchs.

 

Is he always subject to -1 Initiative?

Regardless, he provides some great army buffs and can cleave his way through units effectively. Very good for a Primarch of his cost.

 

Due to the extra attacks and striking before most weapons that threaten him, I'd say he's easily one of the better Primarchs when considering what he does for the units around him. For me it would be an easy choice to include him, and although he isn't quite as effective at battling against his brothers he still won't roll over in battle.

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I know I will likely start fielding him when he gets a model especially in my onslaught lists.

 

Considering right now I use sigismund and his boys to just chew through infantry and occasionally the enemy warlord I don't see how having dorn won't help that and provide a great counter to some of the tougher MC

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sounds like that's the best way to run him in that case.

The impact on Siggy isn't as impressive as opponents still strike him on a 4+ typically, and he won't trump a Primarch, though definitely cool.

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I kinda want to try it? But vs Storm Shield Terminators as a Retinue? Hard to consider especially since the Bonus still only activates when the unit is Charged. 

 

The Warders Defensive Grenades will help, true, but would have been better if it was Always Active.

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Well, Dorn also gives Furious Charge and Crusader and +d3 to combat resolution (Army wide) so still kinda want to be the one charging anyways you just dont lose as much by not getting the Charge Off.

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Being a master duelist isn't always that important.  Alpharius is the suckiest duelist of them all, but everyone clams up when he pokes a unit of automata out of existence.

 

But "easily defeat any non-Primarch character"?  I want to see Scoria vs. Dorn mathhammer and how long it would take Scoria to eat him. :D

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