My Vendetta always disappoints me

[Truesight]

So I've been playing alot of games with DKOK Siege and a CAD of Guard for cheap infantry, wyverns and fliers. Today I've decided to drop the Vendetta.

I've found it's damage output lacklustre for it's 170 points price tag.

Twin linked lascannons are great, but they don't benefit from ignores cover/tank hunter orders, and are at the mercy of reserve rolls.

Usually what happens is it comes on turn 2, does a round of shooting, maybe another if it can, then flies off to try again. So usually 3 rounds of shooting a game, not counting jinking. My rapiers cost less, receive orders, are tougher and shoot from turn 1.

 

I also run a Vulture with punisher cannons, and have found great value in it conversely, vector dancer has meant it can stay on the board and find targets with ease.

 

The main value I have honestly seen is it's fear factor, opponents vastly overestimate it's capabilities "The Wraithknight won't be so bad, you have a Vendetta", adapting their game plan as if it presented a massive threat.

 

Am I missing something here? I'm willing to keep the old girl but she's going to have to start pulling her own weight in the field. Share your wisdom Vendettaphiles.

[Tallarn Commander]

Yes, I go through periods when my vendetta underperformed. During a 5-game league last year it killed no enemy units. It would strip off 1 to 2 hull points a game and that was about it (even when shooting at light armor). However, I've been using my vendetta since 2010 so I know this performance was below its baseline. Usually it is a more reliable source of ranged firepower for me. Hopefully your luck improves!

[WarriorFish]

The nature of the dice gods is somewhat fickle, and adding the flyer rules having you zip off the table means they're somewhat of a loose cannon. You don't know quite how much you'll get, but that's the price to pay for the package. As with most expensive and powerful things they do best with a suitable quarry which of course isn't something you can control!

 

There's always the option to drop into hover mode don't forget. It's not ideal but AV12 isn't too bad in a pinch, and you're not going to be dropping it in under the gaze of lots of lascannons or something (unless you're really desperate?). Having more flyers to weaken their AA fire also helps if you have any.

[Truesight]

Oddly I haven't had any problem with them dying. The Vendetta and Vulture usually win the skies, though I've probably only put it in hover mode once. Maybe I need to be a little more fast and loose, dropping into hover mode rather than flying of the board.

[Lukash_]

In terms of reserve rolls, the Officer of the Fleet is a bargain for his points. To be fair Ld7 isn't terribly reliable, but it's still a nice little buff.

 

Don't discount the fear factor. My Shadowsword has never "made its points back" (I hate that metric) but it's kept enemy deathstars running scared and expensive enemy vehicles behind cover. Just having the Vendetta reminds people of when it was legitimately the best flier in the game.

 

Outside of Forgeworld fliers and a couple of things like Crimson Hunters, the Vendetta is the undeniable king of dogfighting. In an era when more and more fliers have AV12--hard to crack with autocannons and the like--TL Skyfire lascannons are nice. Even if you force something like a Stormraven to jink, that's nearly as good as killing it.

 

Overall the Vendetta is an okay option, though the Vulture is probably better.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I'd never take the Vendetta if the vulture had the option for taking even 2 TLLC. As it is, I take my Vulture with TLLC and 6x HKM. I have the Punishers, but killing hordes isn't what I want it to do. If I need it to kill hordes I can give it MRP's. Still my current list has a valk to use MRP's so I can save the Vulture for harder targets. the vendetta has been hit or miss for me, and I think the Vulture is better, because of strafing run and vector dancer.

[duz_]

What are you trying to target with the vendetta?

 

Im usually really excited if mine comes on before fourth turn

 

I use it as AT or trying to double tap T4 tau battle suits

I've had pretty good success with this. Its also a good distraction for most opponents.

 

Initial placement is always key I rarely have mine fly off the board and I generally find I switch to hover mode as the game progresses so I can play it more aggressively

[Truesight]

I usually target heavy armour. Knights and AV 14. It also has a platoon command squad in it with flamers to try and snake an objective on turn 5.

 

Any tips on initial placement to keep it on the board?

[The Acid Dog]

I usually target heavy armour. Knights and AV 14. It also has a platoon command squad in it with flamers to try and snake an objective on turn 5.

Any tips on initial placement to keep it on the board?

Determine the target of its first shooting attack when it comes in. Pick a corner, and fly in at an angle as close to parallel with your board edge as you can get while still keeping the target in the arc of fire (between a flyer's movement and the lascannons' range, distance shouldn't be an issue) . From then on it's just managing the gunship's turns.

[Akrim]

I hear ya, I removed the Vendetta from my last few lists( and it's been a long time staple in my army) honestly didn't really miss it. I think they're about roughly 20pts overcosted or it should get Strafing Run.

 

It's a good anti-air unit but uses normal reserves and I resent having to spend even more points on a Comm Link or Officer of the Fleet to improve it. At BS3 you're probably looking at 2 hits, probably not going to do a ton of damage to most targets.

 

Fliers in general have slid a bit in power. Even with AV12 it's still pretty easy to neutralize by forcing it into jink.

 

I play a lot of Maelstrom so I tend to use it solo to deliver a small suicide squad downfield like a SWS or Platoon Command with flamers to hopefully capture an objective. Astra doesn't have much in the way of reliable mobility so keeping stuff like linebreaker in mind is important.

[march10k]

I usually target heavy armour. Knights and AV 14. 

This is a large part of the problem.  Lascannons, if they hit (twinlinking helps) do nothing but scorch the paint on AV14 2/3 of the time!  If you hit a land raider with all three lascannons two turns in a row, you can expect to get one glancing hit and one penetrating hit.  That's not exactly what we imagine when we think "three twinlinked lascannons?  I'll rule the tabletop!"   AV13 is marginally better, but against a knight, it's actually worse, you have that shield to get through.  Lascannons, and thus vendettas, are meant for reliably killing AV12 vehicles and stripping wounds off of monstrous creatures.  

[Pablo Benigno]

I agree that maybe you are using it for the wrong role. I wouldn't use the Vendettas to destroy vehicles; killing monstrous creatures and R4 multiple wounds stuff is a better target, killing other fliers (or just make them jink) and the transport capacity to deploy troops on far objectives or linebreaker.

 

Maybe it's a little bit overpriced now, but it fills multiple roles at the same time (monster killer, flier killer and transport troops), so I think it is pretty valuable. 

[march10k]

Well...it's not bad for destroying vehicles.  Three twinlinked lascannon shots at the flank of a demolisher is a good thing.  AV13 isn't an overreach unless it's got an invul, like a knight.  But it is much better suited to penning AV12 (although AV12 targets will often be found unworthy, it needs to be something like a serpentload of wraithguard), fliers in general, and monstrous creatures.

[Rommel44]

The Vendetta is not a bad option as it still has its uses, however my main issue is that it isn't very flexible. Don't get me wrong, it can kill things but compared to the other flyers, it is only really suited for Armor and killing MC. Thunderbolt is great as it has 2x Twin-Linked Autocannons and a Twin-Linked Lascannon, making it great against anything, and the same can be said for the Avenger Strike Fighter and the Vulture Gunship.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I agree that maybe you are using it for the wrong role. I wouldn't use the Vendettas to destroy vehicles; killing monstrous creatures and R4 multiple wounds stuff is a better target, killing other fliers (or just make them jink) and the transport capacity to deploy troops on far objectives or linebreaker.

 

Maybe it's a little bit overpriced now, but it fills multiple roles at the same time (monster killer, flier killer and transport troops), so I think it is pretty valuable. 

 

I am not so sure it's overpriced. Given that anything other than dedicated anti-air weaponry (which, the vast majority of the time cannot effectively target your ground forces) must take snap-shots, the Vendetta is much harder to take down than its AV 12 front armour would suggest. I think this needs to be factored into the cost, and in metas like my own where dedicated anti-air is rare, it is nigh indestructable. Three twin-linked lascannons that can't be killed is quite nice and I'd expect such a thing to cost what it does.

 

People should not forget its transport capacity. Throwing a SWS or some Storm Troopers in there really increases its flexibility in my opinion since they can jump out and take care of stuff the Vendetta is not well suited to. Granted, this increases the cost from a certain viewpoint, but on the other hand those units had to get to their destination somehow and a Vendetta more reliable than a chimera IMO.

 

I base this on my experience with the humble Valkyrie which I don't begrudge it's costs, even though it is really nothing other than a transport. A snap-shooting multilaser and two one-shot krak missiles really can't be considered in your battle plan. It's a nice bonus if they actually do something but certainly cannot be counted on. Now take the Valk and, for 45 points more it can now actually do some damage? Seems fair to me.

[march10k]

Depends on what you're trying to damage.  I agree that the price of the vendetta is fair.  After all, they used to be so ridiculously underpriced that everyone and his dog fielded nine of them...You still see them in spite of the whining, which suggests that they're close to a fair points cost, and that the whining is comparing them to what they were before, not looking at them objectively as they are now.

 

As for the damage thing...I find that valkyries with rocket pods are pretty decent at removing job lots of orks, bugs, and guardsmen, and good at forcing saves on tougher targets.  The upgrade from ordnance HKs is almost a no-brainer, and it makes the valk pretty decent.  I like to have one fly my culexus around.  It seems smarter than having him pop up somewhere, work for a turn, then die, and if his services aren't needed, his ride can just fly around pieplating stuff and preserving his KP.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I've never tried the rocket pods, but the local scene is very power-armour heavy and even the Ork armies I've faced have been heavy on the bikes, the terminator-wannabes (whatever those are called), and carapace-armoured boyz with FNP. The one time I faced IG at a tournament it was totally mech vets. Have yet to see bugs (that's actually one army I've never had a chance to play against in all my years of 40k, although granted I don't play a lot and usually just one tournament per year).

[Captain Antonius]

My valkyrie is set up with multi-laser, rocket pods, and sponson heavy bolters. With the option to fire 4 weapons a turn at full BS, I usually only get to fire 3 because the bolters are out of arc. It reliably removes a few enemies every time it fires. Its whole job is to open a landing area for the demolitions vets inside. Then to harass things if its still alive. The Multi-laser is nothing to sneeze at. Strength 6 will make a mess of Company Command Squads, reliably wound Marines, and even take out light AV10 armor. The rocket pods throwing down two pie plates a turn will neutralize soft targets with impunity. I've even taken out a Templar Command Squad once with them. Too many wounds to save.

 

Never taken a Vendetta because I like the carry capacity of the Valkyrie, so I can't speak to its usefulness. It seems to me better suited to anti-flyer duty than ground attack. My two cents.

[Rommel44]

My valkyrie is set up with multi-laser, rocket pods, and sponson heavy bolters. With the option to fire 4 weapons a turn at full BS, I usually only get to fire 3 because the bolters are out of arc. It reliably removes a few enemies every time it fires. Its whole job is to open a landing area for the demolitions vets inside. Then to harass things if its still alive. The Multi-laser is nothing to sneeze at. Strength 6 will make a mess of Company Command Squads, reliably wound Marines, and even take out light AV10 armor. The rocket pods throwing down two pie plates a turn will neutralize soft targets with impunity. I've even taken out a Templar Command Squad once with them. Too many wounds to save.

 

Never taken a Vendetta because I like the carry capacity of the Valkyrie, so I can't speak to its usefulness. It seems to me better suited to anti-flyer duty than ground attack. My two cents.

I agree. Plus as I mentioned earlier, a Thunderbolt, Avenger Strike Fighter, and the Vulture Gunship can fulfill that role, as well as be useful in other areas.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I'll say this, Now that I have a vulture, my vendetta has seen far less use in my lists. Simply because I feel the Vulture is more adaptable to the anti armor role. Not only that but the Vulture has Vector Dancer, giving it loiter while zooming, and it has strafing run, making it more likely to hit ground targets. Still the Vendetta has a place, and for me that's taking down enemy fliers, and light armor. While I wouldn't send it up against AV14 regularly, I've seen TLLC do silly things, like roll trip 6's and annihilate a monolith. Forgeworld definitely has the best offering for dedicated CAS, the codex options don't slouch either. The Valkyrie with 2xMRP is disgusting against large numbers. 'Nids, Necrons, Orks, cultists, all hate the MRP's. Now, a good target for those Vendetta TLLC's is a Tau Devilfish, if you can get around that jink. Pop that thing open and those filty xenos fish people have to foot slog it out, making ripe targets for your artillery.