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primarchs chosen


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49 replies to this topic

#26
ak1508

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^That sounds ridiculous... But I would totally love to play that game (either with or against the 3 Glaives)!!!

 

I would love to play it just using a normal FoC out of curiosity to see how many turns I would last. Although if you can somehow find your way inbetween those Glaives, and the opponent decides to go with it, them shooting my guys and each other to pieces can be good for giggles :D



#27
Terminus

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The benefit of this rite is that there is no longer a points restriction on your Primarch. You could bring Horus in a 750 point game (Horus and two min veteran squads).



#28
RedFox

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New question about this RoW: does it allow legion specific elite terminators as troop like the pride of the legion RoW ?

Also, can i use this RoW to fit a Primarch in an ally detachment?

#29
IronDrake28

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New question about this RoW: does it allow legion specific elite terminators as troop like the pride of the legion RoW ?

Also, can i use this RoW to fit a Primarch in an ally detachment?


I don't think it allows Legion specific termy troops, but allies definitely can't take RoWs.

#30
Slips

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Allies can actually take RoWs now but a fair few RoWs can only be used as a Primary Detachment.

 

However, for an Allied Detachment to use a RoW, they must be 1k points minimum and have a Master of the Legion HQ to unlock it.

 

Primarch's Chosen doesnt unlock Legion Specific Terminators but the Primarch Taken as an HQ in this scenario MUST be the Armies Warlord and the detachments compulsory HQ.

 

So it can be taken as an Allied Detachment.


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#31
Caillum

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Interesting stuff Slips. That means you could run a Primary Detachment with a Lord of War, plus have a 1,000 point Allied Detachment running "Primarch's Chosen" (who will be the army's Warlord).

Can't do 2 Primarchs, as they both have to be Warlord, but gives you an option for a Super-heavy plus a Primarch - it only says no Lords of War in the detachment!

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#32
Slips

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Pretty much.

 

Didnt see anything in the restrictions forcing it to be primary detachment.

 

Meaning you could run Primarch HQ, 1 Terminator Squad Bodyguard w/ Dedicated Transport Ride.

 

However, there is a stipulation for Primarchs Chosen that requires you to have more units with the Legiones Astartes Rule than there is units without. So that does limit what you could take in the event that you do take it as an Allied Detachment.

 

It does mean you can actually circumvent the "No LoW w/ Primarch HQ" thing but that does mean 3 troops Choices at Minimum and 1 More Compulsory HQ in addition to a Primarch HQ so not really something that is all-that-viable at low points.


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#33
RedFox

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Dont forget the 25% LoW rule

#34
TemujinZero

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Primarch has to be the warlord so can't be in an allied detachment.

#35
Caillum

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Ah, you're right. Oh, well. Was a great idea in theory.

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#36
Ironwithout

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Allies can actually take RoWs now but a fair few RoWs can only be used as a Primary Detachment.

However, for an Allied Detachment to use a RoW, they must be 1k points minimum and have a Master of the Legion HQ to unlock it.

Primarch's Chosen doesnt unlock Legion Specific Terminators but the Primarch Taken as an HQ in this scenario MUST be the Armies Warlord and the detachments compulsory HQ.

So it can be taken as an Allied Detachment.


Legion Delegatus negates the 1000 point problem. So could be done at a lower points level..... i think

#37
Slips

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Allies can actually take RoWs now but a fair few RoWs can only be used as a Primary Detachment.

However, for an Allied Detachment to use a RoW, they must be 1k points minimum and have a Master of the Legion HQ to unlock it.

Primarch's Chosen doesnt unlock Legion Specific Terminators but the Primarch Taken as an HQ in this scenario MUST be the Armies Warlord and the detachments compulsory HQ.

So it can be taken as an Allied Detachment.


Legion Delegatus negates the 1000 point problem. So could be done at a lower points level..... i think

 

No, he doesnt.

 

He's just cheaper than a Praetor. You still need 1k Points to use a RoW.


Edited by Slipstreams, 05 April 2016 - 07:19 PM.

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#38
Ironwithout

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Allies can actually take RoWs now but a fair few RoWs can only be used as a Primary Detachment.

However, for an Allied Detachment to use a RoW, they must be 1k points minimum and have a Master of the Legion HQ to unlock it.

Primarch's Chosen doesnt unlock Legion Specific Terminators but the Primarch Taken as an HQ in this scenario MUST be the Armies Warlord and the detachments compulsory HQ.

So it can be taken as an Allied Detachment.

Legion Delegatus negates the 1000 point problem. So could be done at a lower points level..... i think
No, he doesnt.

He's just cheaper than a Praetor. You still need 1k Points to use a RoW.

Ooh. I have been cheating. Not intentionally though which is a bit better at least 😕

#39
Slips

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sleep.png sleep.png sleep.png

 

Dont worry, we all make mistakes...

 

Still, report to the Legion Correctional Facilites.


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#40
Farseer Anath'lan

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Delegatus can be taken under 1'000pts. Specifically says so in Retribution.



#41
Slips

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Delegatus can be taken under 1'000pts. Specifically says so in Retribution.

He can, but a Rite of War, which requires Master of the Legion, which Rite of Command References, requires 1k points.


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#42
shandwen

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The only catch for taking this as an ally is that an alied detachment can't have the warlord.

Now in Technicolor!


#43
Farseer Anath'lan

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Where does it state that the Rite requires 1000pts?

It says that you can only take 1 MotL per 1000, and that a Rite requires you to have a MotL.

 

Or am I missing something obvious?



#44
Slips

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Exactly.

 

So that means you need a minimum of 1k points to include a model with Master of the Legion into the list.

 

All Rite Of Command from the Delegatus does is let you take him below 1k Points; though it does not let you take a RoW which requires 1k points; and if you could, which I hope you can, it limits you immensely in RoWs available to build an army with since only Chosen Duty has the Lightest Unit Tax.

 

Since quite a few require 3 Troops Choices which are at a minimum 150 points each for Tac Squads or, if POTL of CD, 125 per 5man Tac Vet Squad.


Edited by Slipstreams, 06 April 2016 - 05:08 AM.

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#45
Farseer Anath'lan

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Rite of Command.

This model has the MotL rules, and may be taken in armies below the normal 1000pts threshold for taking models with MotL.

 

Why does he not let you use a RoW?

All RoW states is that you must have a model with MotL.

I can't find anywhere that says you must be over 1000pts to take a RoW.


Edited by Farseer Anath'lan, 06 April 2016 - 05:16 AM.


#46
Slips

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Rite of Command.

This model has the MotL rules, and may be taken in armies below the normal 1000pts threshold for taking models with MotL.

 

Why does he not let you use a RoW?

All RoW states is that you must have a model with MotL.

I can't find anywhere that says you must be over 1000pts to take a RoW.

Fair enough then; it was actually a recent change to the Delegatus either in Book 6 where he's in print form or in the FAQ that allows him to be used in sub 1k points games.

 

However, here comes the real problem of taking a RoW at sub 1k: Making Full use of their bonuses while abiding by their restrictions; but, thats why I made a topic for that: http://www.bolterand...es-and-starters

 

 

But, going back to the Topic that brought this about with the delegatus:

 


Is it possible to field multiple HQs with a provision that they ‘must be’ the army’s Warlord? If so, which is the Warlord?

 

You may only do this in the case of a Primarch. In all cases, a Legion’s Primarch takes precedence over others, and so if present in an army representing their Legion, they must be the army’s Warlord and can subordinate other characters with this special rule (although you will gain no Warlord benefits from the subordinate characters). With the exception of a Primarch and subordinates, however, you may not include more than one model with this limitation in any particular army.

From the FAQhttps://www.forgewor...7th_Edition.pdf

 

For the purposes of Primarchs Chosen, that means that you cannot have a Delegatus Allied Detachment (since the Delegatus must be Warlord) and if using PC as an Allied Detachment, the Primary must be lead by a Preator or Character without Jealous Command nor have a Primarch Present in the LoW slot since Primarchs are forced Warlords and PC requires the HQ Primarch to be the warlord; that means no double Primarch Armies more or less.

 

In the case of the Delegatus, you cannot Self-Ally with the same Legion meaning that the Primarch being present wouldn't override this Delegatus' requirement to be Warlord since they aren't from the same Legion. This means a minimum of 1k being used for a Standard Master of the Legion choice who doesn't have Jealous Command.

 

Next, this would pretty much lock-out the use of the majority of the Legion Special Characters since they either Must be Warlord or have the majority of their Special Rules only come into play if they're warlord. Leaving you with Generic Characters. Nothing wrong with that but it does limit you significantly if you're looking to use a Delegatus in either the Primary or Allied Detachment to get around the 1k point limit. Which brings us back to the previous point: How Many RoWs can you make efficient use of at Sub 1k Points that aren't POTL or Chosen Duty? Its not impossible but it wont be all that great especially in the cases of forced additional compulsory troops selections or troop types.

 

+++

 

So, how does this all tie back into the Topic which is Primarchs Chosen?

 

It means a Delegatus cannot be taken in any capacity as an Ally or Primary to a Primarchs Chosen Detachment; which means a minimum of 1k Points being used if a RoW is desired.

 

Otherwise, Primarch Must be Warlord and since you cannot Self-Ally with the same Legiones Astartes, if your Primary or Allied Detachment has an HQ with Jealous Command, such as Eidolon, then they a choice needs to be made: either you take the Primarch or you change the HQ in the other detachment.

 

If, for whatever reason, your warlord must come from your Primary Detachment, then a list using PC as an Allied Detachment would more or less automatically become illegal.

 

But, so long as none of the above come into play, you can totally use a PC Allied Detachment.


Edited by Slipstreams, 06 April 2016 - 05:59 AM.

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#47
Caillum

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Good write-up Slips! Unfortunately, according to "Updated Rules for the Battles in the Age of Darkness Warhammer 40,000 Expansion" (p. 16 of Mechanicum Red Book, p. 159 of Book V, p. 172 of Book VI), it says that the Warlord must come from the Primary Detachment.

So there's no way to pull it off in an Allied Detachment. :(

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#48
Slips

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Welp! There you go LOL

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#49
Ishagu

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LOL!

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#50
Terminus

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A lot of crazy misinformation in this thread, LOL.

 

1.) You could always take rites of wars with allied detachments, it's written into the Master of the Legion rules.

2.) There is no point limit on Rites of War, just how many Masters you can have simultaneously (1 per 1000 points).

3.) The FAQ and book VI lift the 1000-points restriction for the Delegatus, so you can run a rite at 500 points (or whatever).

4.) Allied HQ's can't be warlords, and this is a core rulebook rule (the primary detachment is whichever one has the warlord).

5.) Primarch's chosen mandates its HQ has to be the warlord, so no allies.