Dreadnought Drop pod Shrouded Question

[m0nolith]

Were both reading this from the New Red Book, right?

In the first paragraph, it states clearly that "The Dreadnought inside does not have to deploy out unless the controlling player wishes, and if this is the case, though it may still be targeted by shooting attacks, it may not be charged while this rule is in effect."

Meaning, the Dreadnought inside can be shot at, and naturally cant be charged.

...damn it, im going to have to contact FW about this for a clarification, not that that is going to help...

[Charlo]

See here is the problem...

 

I read it as it doesn't need to deploy out unless you want it to, and if this is the case (e.g. you have deployed it out) then it is targettable by shooting but not assault.

 

Otherwise it follows the normal rules for open topped transports.

[Terminus]

We covered the linguistics of it on the last page. It's vague and comes down to a single comma.  What decided it for me is playing it out; shooting a unit inside a transport creates more impossible rules interactions than barring something from being charged.

[m0nolith]

See here is the problem...

 

I read it as it doesn't need to deploy out unless you want it to, and if this is the case (e.g. you have deployed it out) then it is targettable by shooting but not assault.

 

Otherwise it follows the normal rules for open topped transports.

Frankly I really hope you are right especially since I ordered a Leviathan + pod yesterday.

I just don't want to argue about it every damn time I put it on the table.

[Terminus]

I think it makes sense from a game design standpoint if now the pod grants you two options:

1. Works exactly the same as it always has, but now your shooting attacks are also subject to shrouding (makes thematic sense, you are firing through a giant cloud).

2. Disembark and deprive yourself of the ablative hull points, but you can shoot unmolested and are still protected from assault (picture a thundering impact followed by a roiling cloud of smoke and dust, and suddenly a dreadnought bursts out of the cloud guns a-blazin'. You may be able to shoot back but you don't have time to mount an immediate counter-assault).

 

This makes the cost increase more palatable, too.
 

[m0nolith]

I think it makes sense from a game design standpoint if now the pod grants you two options:

1. Works exactly the same as it always has, but now your shooting attacks are also subject to shrouding (makes thematic sense, you are firing through a giant cloud).

2. Disembark and deprive yourself of the ablative hull points, but you can shoot unmolested and are still protected from assault (picture a thundering impact followed by a roiling cloud of smoke and dust, and suddenly a dreadnought bursts out of the cloud guns a-blazin'. You may be able to shoot back but you don't have time to mount an immediate counter-assault).

 

This makes the cost increase more palatable, too.

 

Ok, this makes sense.

Question, I'll be running this in a BA RoW, Day of Revelation which among other things conveys a +2 cover save for all units coming in using deep strike. This + Shrouded would give my pod + Levi a 3+ cover on the turn it comes in on, right?

[Brofist]

Yup. Our BA player enjoys that +2 all the time. 2+ if it's also night fighting

[Terminus]

^What he said.

 

The dreadnought pod's size and shrouding also makes it the best friend of dreadclaws and Kharybdis craft, who can jink for a 2+.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Dorn can grant +1 CS to I believe three pieces of terrain thus another means to gain the 2+ CS on the drop as well.

[Terminus]

Re-roll 1s, which is better than +1.

[Slips]

It means that, during Night Fighting, if you Drop a DDP in front of a Dorn-Buffed piece of Terrain, the occupants would have a 2+ Rerollable Cover Save.

 

Or, if its Ruins giving a 4+, you just need the DDP for Shrouded to get a 2+ Rerollable.

[Theredknight]

Monolith- don't forget the catchment area on that thing, the petals count as the unit now am I right? So with a couple you could block of a large chunk of the field?

[01RTB01]

Are you guys playing if you remain inside you can be shot at not charged?

 

I posted on fw Facebook and they stated that's how they'd play it.

[Slips]

Currently, we're playing:

• Land, choose: Stay In or Hop Out
• If Stay In: Cannot be shot at, all targets being shot by the dread gain Shrouded
• If Hop Out: Dread Cannot be Charged, if any shooting passes over the hull target gains shrouded

Since it modifies the BRB rules and general functioning of the game the least and does so without causing other secondary headaches the other interpretation would have such as:

• Burning Retros is the rule that lets you shoot the dread when it arrives. On the following turn, when it drops and the dread stays inside, you can no longer shoot at it. How does that make sense?
• When shooting at a unit embarked in a vehicle, how do you determine their facing where relevant?
• etc.

[ChainMachete]

So what happens if the Drop Pod is destroyed in say the shooting phase?

 

If it explodes the drop pod is gone, so probably no shrouded (makes sense, the explosion has blown away the smoke from the burning retros). But if it's just destroyed through hull point ablation it's wrecked but still on the table, so does the shrouded rule still apply? Either way the dreadnought is now considered deployed.

 

The rules say "the Burning Retro's effect lasts from the player turn in which the Dreadnought Drop Pod landed until the controlling player's next turn." No mention of it ending if the drop pod goes away. However the bit about shrouded specifically calls out the drop pod hull and doors for shrouding to work and if the drop pod explodes the hull and doors are no longer there, so the shrouded obviously goes away. But if it's just wrecked, are the hull and doors still considered to be there, just in a wrecked state, and if the dreadnought emergency disembarks onto the doors, does it still get the (dis)advantages of shrouded?

 

The bit about not being charged doesn't actually require the drop pod to still be there in the rules, so I think it still can't be charged if the drop pod explodes or not.

[Terminus]

I would play it as common sense, and leave shrouding in place for the turn.  Wrecking it up would probably only add to the giant cloud of smoke and fire, so I don't think it would improve visibility. :P

[Guiltysparc]

I would play it as common sense, and leave shrouding in place for the turn. Wrecking it up would probably only add to the giant cloud of smoke and fire, so I don't think it would improve visibility.

To tie into a recent GW rules post, they stated in the necron faq that for the benefits of canoptek harvest last for the whole turn even if the model moves out of range of that unit grants the benefit...so i would agree and treat any modifier as lasting for the whole turn unless otherwise stated.

[m0nolith]

I would play it as common sense, and leave shrouding in place for the turn. Wrecking it up would probably only add to the giant cloud of smoke and fire, so I don't think it would improve visibility.

You speak of this "common sense" as if its a common commodity

[Terminus]

Hence the *I*, but I get your meaning.