Slips Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) So, the Original Thread is getting long and bogged down with the sheer amount of posts in it (70 Pages! Oh my!) As such, why not make a second so that peeps aren't horrified/intimidates/synonym'd into shying away from posting in there asking for help? WELL THATS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE DOING! *gasp* With that in mind, lets restate what the good 'ol Captain of this brakeless Heresy Train-Ship-Thing: "Man, I love X, Y, and Z Legion, but I don't know what to pick" "Help me find the Legion for me!" "What the heck do you mean that the -blank- Legion does that? The old IA article doesn't say that!" We see these threads and comments a lot in the Age of Darkness forum. Many folks are still getting their bearings with the release of the Horus Heresy Tomes from Forgeworld, and the novels from Black Library. Some are brand new to the glories of the Old Legions. Many simply love all the Legions for various reasons. Who's to blame them? The Legions are vast, and as Forgeworld and Black Library expands on their histories, from the Unification Wars to the Great Scouring, we are treated to even more variation and wonderful stories that we could never have imagined. But this doesn't exactly make it easy to pick one to build for an army, huh? So, this thread is dedicated to assisting our Legion Brothers and Sisters in deciding on the Legion (or Legions) to choose. This is NOT a "which Legion is best" thread, but rather is a "how can we, as a unified community, help jump start your imagination" thread. So, if you're in the dark or a touch lost in an idea, post your questions here, and we shall guide you to the light. If you prefer the darkness and are blinded by the light, post your questions, and we shall guide you to the darkness. Just remember, this is a community exercise to be helpful to our future brethren and cousins; please be civil and polite.... ....No matter which side of The War they choose. Now, a few additions to the above so that discussion remains focused and doesnt occasionally turn into micro debates on stuff that might not exactly pertain to the topic at hand. As such, we'll (Me, Flint, BCK) be a bit more aggressive, moving forwards, with pruning extraneous posts to keep any potential bloat down as well as, stated above, keep the discussion focused. So, how can you help keep the discussion focused? Well, I'm glad you asked! Here's a few pointers (these are by no means absolutes): Avoid stating "Why play Legion/Army X/Y/Z?! They Suck!" or something to that effect. It doesnt really help anyone (which is the point of the topic) nor does the person you're saying that really care about said opinion since he wants to play said Legions/Army anyways. Highlight what makes Playing/Painting/Collecting said Legions/Armies fun, what limitations one can reasonably expect, etc. Try to keep talk about the minutiae of how Legions Play/Operate/Work within the rules to their Dedicated Tactica Threads. I'm not saying you can't list pro's and con's to any given choices; with how expensive all this is, it'd be pretty disingenuous to not give people as much information as possible before making their choices. In the end, we're here to help people choose a Legion. We're not here to put anyone down for their choices or go on a rant as to why Legion X with unit Y is better than Legion A with unit B due to a rules interaction that results in a 33.333 (repeating of course) increase in effectiveness. The former is an unwelcome attitude and the latter is better kept to the Tactica threads as stated above. With that said, here are the links to the Tactica Threads we've currently got going on: Dark Angels Emperors Children Iron Warriors White Scars Space Wolves Imperial Fists Night Lords Blood Angels Iron Hands World Eaters Ultramarines Death Guard Thousand Sons Sons of Horus Word Bearers Salamanders Raven Guard Alpha Legion Black Shields Shattered Legions Knights Errant Mechanicum Army of Dark Compliance Solar Auxilia Militia and Cults And, for more inspiration, heres the March of the Legions Completions: Month 1 Month 2 Month 3 Month 4 Month 5 Month 6 Month 7 Month 8 Month 9 Month 10 Month 11 Other Sources of Inspiration: Shattered Legions Black Shields Members, such as Iron Hands Fanatic, also have threads dedicated to exploring other ideas for the 30k setting so feel free to look up their work. Edited March 13, 2016 by Slipstreams Bruce Malcom, Brother Dallo and Atia 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Might as well try and get the second post in. If you're struggling over what legion to pick, it's worth bearing in mind that despite certain legions getting particular bonuses towards certain tactics, all legions can fulfil all tactics and all roles. Some less effectively than others, but if you want to play Jump Infantry Iron Hands and Outrider Heavy Salamanders, feel free to fill your boots. I've yet to come across a legion design whose role cannot be fulfilled in some manner by the rules available as they all stem from a core list - it's just that others may be more effective. There is one exception, and that's Salamanders, who cannot field Phosphex Weaponry or Radiation Weapons (although meltaguns are fine, apparently). Feel free to give me a PM or shoot down to tactics/army lists forums if you have any desires in mind, where either myself or one of the others on the site can help direct you. Thanks and good luck with your Heresy adventure. Billy Butcher 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Mmmm, it's even got that new thread smell. The Heresy Train has no brakes, as they say, and it was time for some new cars. Enjoy the ride. Son of Carnelian and Augustus b'Raass 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 One thing I have noticed is that the optimal best is sometimes not immediately apparent. I kept going between the same few Legions until such an awesome idea hit me that I immediately started to paint in a colour I never thought I would and build the fluff around a Legion I neve thought I would be interested in. What I am saying is that do not discount Legions just because you are not overly interested in them from the start ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf in the Shadows Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 It was me wasn't it, I killed the last thread. As someone just starting 30k was the background and painting that helped decide on a legion. Although not as easy as I had expected looking forward to the challenge and finding out how I want to play those legions. I know that as time goes will pick up a few more and Blackshields made up of terran legionaries from the traitor legions in original legion colours may take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 It was me wasn't it, I killed the last thread. As someone just starting 30k was the background and painting that helped decide on a legion. Although not as easy as I had expected looking forward to the challenge and finding out how I want to play those legions. I know that as time goes will pick up a few more and Blackshields made up of terran legionaries from the traitor legions in original legion colours may take over. Don't worry. It wasn't you. It was simply killed by a mod (more like the mod amirite :D) because it was way too bloated :) Wolf in the Shadows 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Top use of the Boogaloo. Who don't love saying that? Okay so I have my traitor Legion down: DG. I love the massed Termies and fluffyness of just deleting the ground that the enemy walks on. Plus dark compliance. Awesome. But now I'm trying to decide on a loyalist. It's between four legions at the moment. BA DA SL IH They all bring something different to the table. I think the current leader is SL closely followed by BA. I think IH is mainly due to the strength of thier rules and Rites of War, especially when combined with Mr.Iron Hands Ferrus himself. So they may just be a power move more than an army I want. DA really intrigue me but not at the level they are right now. The lack of units just can't give me a coherent vision, plus I don't like the idea of mk4 DA :p Salamanders have a lot of cool characters and the special units are both winners. Plus Dracos and an amazing theme to model with. Rites are iffy though and wonky at best. Although the new one is worth a look in. BA are ace and I play them in 40k so a lot of models can be shared. Maybe I'll do another Legion in the mean time then migrate when thier book comes out. simison and Atia 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 They all bring something different to the table. I think the current leader is SL closely followed by BA. Why not doing a Shattered Legions force? The defenders of Baal - Blood Angels, Salamanders and Iron Hands, as mentioned in Retribution? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 They all bring something different to the table. I think the current leader is SL closely followed by BA. Why not doing a Shattered Legions force? The defenders of Baal - Blood Angels, Salamanders and Iron Hands, as mentioned in Retribution? I had no idea this was a thing. My EMPEROR, THAT IS AWESOME. Does Cassian fit into it at all? Because I'm really set on including that guy. My only beef with shattered is that I'd be building both a Dark Compliance and a Shattered Legion army - two "opponents permission" dealios :P Then again, Green Melta dudes, Black Volkite Breachers and Red Jump troops. Oh my. Bruce Malcom 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) They all bring something different to the table. I think the current leader is SL closely followed by BA. Why not doing a Shattered Legions force? The defenders of Baal - Blood Angels, Salamanders and Iron Hands, as mentioned in Retribution? I had no idea this was a thing. My EMPEROR, THAT IS AWESOME. Does Cassian fit into it at all? Because I'm really set on including that guy. My only beef with shattered is that I'd be building both a Dark Compliance and a Shattered Legion army - two "opponents permission" dealios Then again, Green Melta dudes, Black Volkite Breachers and Red Jump troops. Oh my. Cassius has his own Shattered Legions army afaik (which includes Nârik Dreygur and his Iron Warriors friends). But I don't see a problem to paint him up, and use him too. The Shattered Legions list is really great to start your army - at the end, you still can add enough units to make each Legion playable on its own - 'till then, you can use them together. Horus Heresy is usualy not played in a "tournament" environment, so the "opponents permission" shouldn't be the problem, especially when you don't start to use the list to make an unfluffy maximum cheese army Edited March 14, 2016 by Atia Brother Pheidias and Charlo 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 If I use a Salamander as my warlord in this regard, does this mean I couldn't take a blood angel Moritat or Destroyer squad? Mainly because I want a bad ass dragon man to be my orbital assault Commander (I have a lot of pods and it saves me monies). And I don't want him being splatted so eternal warrior to keep the army together yey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Shattered legions in book 6 are awesome and I am very tempted to plan out an Iron Warriors mixed with Iron Hands force. Autek Mor and his mates are great and I would love to do something similar but with ties to a certain other successor chapter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) If I use a Salamander as my warlord in this regard, does this mean I couldn't take a blood angel Moritat or Destroyer squad? Mainly because I want a bad ass dragon man to be my orbital assault Commander (I have a lot of pods and it saves me monies). And I don't want him being splatted so eternal warrior to keep the army together yey. Afaik you can. The "no Destroyers" is for models with the Salamanders Legion affection, within your main detachment. Blood Angels Moritat/Destroyers within that detachment would be fine Edited March 15, 2016 by Atia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Aye, I suppose it would become a "shattered legions detatchment" as opposed to a "Salamanders shattered Legion detachment" Thanks! Atia 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) Well my usual winter hobby slump seems to be ending so I have decided it's time to finally get my 30k Legion going. The problem is I keep wobbling back and forth between Ultra Marines and Word Bearers (kind of ironic I know) and I'm hoping that the wisdom of B&C will help me finally pick one to focus on, and hopefully the act of just typing out my thoughts here will give me a little more guidance too. So as far as fluff goes: I like both fairly equally but I like Guilliman more than Lorgar and I really don't care for Kor Pharon and Erebus (which seems common). I like the idea of them being religious zealots and they look really interesting to paint with all the constellations and words on their armor plus I like red more than blue. In general though I don't like the traitors. As I'm sure most here have I love all the fluff and background of the HH and I actively want to sympathize with the traitor legions but I just can't for the most part. Although it's pretty close with the WBs and the 1k sons. Specific units are kind of a wash as well. I really like the Suzerins as they look freaking awesome, but I also really like the Gal Vorbak and the Ashen Circle so I dunno. I want to run either Suzerin or Gal Vorbak in a Spartan with the respective primarch and I think the Gal Vorbak are a bit better at killing everything than the Suzerins but I'm not sure. I like that WBs can take Daemon allies which would give me more variety and can help with the overall cost of the army, plus I already have the Daemon codex and a models from when I tried to get my wife into 40k...however I don't really like Daemons so I dunno how much I would really use them :/.......although I have been looking for an excuse to get one of the new Bloodthirster models and the "Start Collecting" box would give my army a great "cheap" boost. I would like to be able to use my 30k models in a 40k army as well. In general both allow quite a bit of cross over to their respective 40k forces with the edge going to the Ultra Marines since Space Marines can use more 30k stuff like the newer Dreadnaughts and such. Although if I build up a Daemon force for WB obviously that works in 40k as well. I already have some models from both Legions, Guilliman and a unit of Gal Vorbak, but no strong leaning yet so not really relevant. Other than that I of course have B@C but haven't started painting the models yet. Also have book V which applies to both legions already so no help there either. Some 30k interest has been popping up in my local meta finally and most seem to be going for traitor legions so that makes me want to go loyalist, but the 40k meta is heavily Imperial leaning so that makes me want to go traitor . I have been thinking of painting up the B@C models how they should be to just fit with the game and then run them as allies. I have a really hard time bringing myself to do that as that is almost opposite the fluff. Could do a shattered WB legion but again I can't imagine a fluff reason that a WB force would decide to team up with a UM force, plus I can't really do Gal Vorbak if I went that route. I wouldn't want to go the other way either since if I had a UM force I would want to be loyalist and I would want to run Guilliman. Gah sorry for the wall of text! Kind of just got on a roll there. So typing this up in no way helped me decide since I am pretty much straight down the middle for every issue. Obviously I think I will have to do both legions at some point, but as we are all aware that is fairly costly so I really have to just focus on one for now. So.......does anyone have any advice or any reasons that I might want one over the other? Thanks for taking the time to read this . Edit: forgot to mention my preferred play style. I probably want to go mostly mech so putting most of my infantry in pods, rhinos, etc... I generally like psykers (so a point for WB there!) but not a huge factor. I have a few 40k armies but my main is Eldar if that gives you a hint to my normal play style. I'll use a few drop pods but I don't want to do more than couple so I probably won't want to use the new WB RoW. Hope that helps! Edited March 15, 2016 by ronin_cse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 From everything you've said there is super obvious you want to do Ultras ;) Maybe paint some WB too on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Shattered Legions! An unlikely alliance of Word Bearers who have remained had a reversal of thought abd are now fighting with the Ultramarines against their erstwhile brethren! KBA 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) From everything you've said there is super obvious you want to do Ultras Maybe paint some WB too on the side. Really? I isn't obvious to me . What was it I said that makes you think I am leaning toward Ultras? Obviously some major subconscious stuff going on in my typing here Shattered Legions! An unlikely alliance of Word Bearers who have remained had a reversal of thought abd are now fighting with the Ultramarines against their erstwhile brethren! I still have trouble reconciling the fluff with this. I mean the UMs humiliated the WBs, even if they broke from their legion don't you think they would still have the UMs? Also like I said can't really do Gal Vorbak in this case and that is like one of the main reason to go with WBs :/ Edit: I mean that in regards to the fluff btw...afaik I could totally take Gal Vorbak in a loyalist Shattered Legion list allied with UMs. Edited March 15, 2016 by ronin_cse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I'm starting to once again look into possibly getting an eventual HH force, what with my tax return being significantly larget than expected, which means I could potentially place one order with FW to compliment the BaC box I have still sitting patiently on a shelf... I've managed, thanks to all the info that managed to stream online regarding Book VI, to limit my indecision, but have unfortunately come to a standstill... Three distinct forces now stand apart, and I can't figure out which is more tempting... :\ Iron Warrriors - The new rite sounds really emblematic, and has me dreaming of a twin-mortar Deredeo (Ironfire class, maybe?) that could be fielded as a counts-as something... That image has been stuck in my head for weeks and I definitely need to build one, no matter which option I end up chosing, so I figured I might as well play the leagion it'd fit into (plus I really like the IVth) Imperial Fists - The new Shattered Legion rules have finally opened Pandora's box and made it possible for me to build and field an army I've been envisioning for years now: Dornian Fists. Playing a VII+XVII Shattered Legion is the perfect way to represent the DornianHeresy fists, and I love the narative that's been imagined here. However, building an army off an alternate heresy feels off... White Scars / Imperial Fists / Blood Angels - Once again a Shattered Legion force which could, this time, represent the Siege of Terra defense... A very striking color scheme, with plenty of room for variation among the different sub-groups. Anyone thinks one of these two SL ideas could owrk? I'm definitely tempted by the IVth, that dread needs to be made, I just fear painting too much bare metal might eventually become boring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I'm starting to once again look into possibly getting an eventual HH force, what with my tax return being significantly larget than expected, which means I could potentially place one order with FW to compliment the BaC box I have still sitting patiently on a shelf... I've managed, thanks to all the info that managed to stream online regarding Book VI, to limit my indecision, but have unfortunately come to a standstill... Three distinct forces now stand apart, and I can't figure out which is more tempting... :\ Iron Warrriors - The new rite sounds really emblematic, and has me dreaming of a twin-mortar Deredeo (Ironfire class, maybe?) that could be fielded as a counts-as something... That image has been stuck in my head for weeks and I definitely need to build one, no matter which option I end up chosing, so I figured I might as well play the leagion it'd fit into (plus I really like the IVth) Imperial Fists - The new Shattered Legion rules have finally opened Pandora's box and made it possible for me to build and field an army I've been envisioning for years now: Dornian Fists. Playing a VII+XVII Shattered Legion is the perfect way to represent the DornianHeresy fists, and I love the narative that's been imagined here. However, building an army off an alternate heresy feels off... White Scars / Imperial Fists / Blood Angels - Once again a Shattered Legion force which could, this time, represent the Siege of Terra defense... A very striking color scheme, with plenty of room for variation among the different sub-groups. Anyone thinks one of these two SL ideas could owrk? I'm definitely tempted by the IVth, that dread needs to be made, I just fear painting too much bare metal might eventually become boring... Why not an IF/IW Shattered Legion force? Could still represent the Siege of Terra as I'm sure there could have been enough IWs who switched back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldier of Dorn Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Personally, I think you should go with the Iron Warriors. As cool as Shattered Legion forces are, since they're currently opponent's consent only it would be more secure to start off with a "normal" Legion force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Personally, I think you should go with the Iron Warriors. As cool as Shattered Legion forces are, since they're currently opponent's consent only it would be more secure to start off with a "normal" Legion force.Ahh, hadn't realized SL was opponent's consent only... Well, that does put alot of weight behind the IV Legion option. I'll give a test model a go to confirm I like the results before I finally settle on the IV. Now to figure out what cannons would make for suitable mortars on a Deredeo frame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Does "opponent's consent" really matter though? How much of a jerk does one need to be to deny a friend/buddy to have fun and play what he likes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 From everything you've said there is super obvious you want to do Ultras Maybe paint some WB too on the side. Really? I isn't obvious to me . What was it I said that makes you think I am leaning toward Ultras? Obviously some major subconscious stuff going on in my typing here Shattered Legions! An unlikely alliance of Word Bearers who have remained had a reversal of thought abd are now fighting with the Ultramarines against their erstwhile brethren! I still have trouble reconciling the fluff with this. I mean the UMs humiliated the WBs, even if they broke from their legion don't you think they would still have the UMs? Also like I said can't really do Gal Vorbak in this case and that is like one of the main reason to go with WBs :/ Edit: I mean that in regards to the fluff btw...afaik I could totally take Gal Vorbak in a loyalist Shattered Legion list allied with UMs. Sure, there are definitely Word Bearers who hate the Ultramarines. Although from Argel Tal and Sor Talgron, we see Word Bearers who don't really care about the Ultramarines beyond "they're an enemy". Of course, we also get Narek who first came onto the scene as a Word Bearer who believed in the Traitors' cause, but doesn't agree with how Chaos is mutating his Legion and has since made it his goal to kill Lorgar and "fix" his Legion. So the Word Bearers have a smorgasboard of variable potential. For example, following the theme of repentant Word Bearers, it could be some had already become Gal Vorbak before they "saw the error of their ways" and as a result, have since become the local shock troops who have vowed to cause as much damage to the enemy as possible before they receive penance in the form of death. Or whatever else you can think of. BloodTzar and ronin_cse 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Or approach the problem from the other side, and have traitor Ultramarines. Kol Saresk and The Nephilim 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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