The Legion For You: Part Two, Electric Boogaloo!

[Vykes]

Get loyalists to even things out

 

He can always go loyalist from a traitor legion, or traitor element of a loyalist legion.  They're better than vanilla loyalist anyway you slice it :P 

 

I agree with BenJ's statement, and would probably toss my hat in with the thought that Death Guard may very well work.  They have a strong traditional preference towards them weapons and are heavy on terminators*.  Plus, they seem like they would be a visually distinct break from the other armies (though I suppose there's some overlap with World Eaters blue and white), but it can be done with some very different tints.  

 

So, Breakthrough, what do you like painting?  Did you feel like having an elite army or more ground pounders?  Because Arty+Termies is a thing a few armies can do.  Any other heresy charactes or preferences you have that we can work with? 

 

*said with the caveat that legions were so large that literally every single one could work in a big formation with artillery softening up a position for an advance with terminators: even the tiny or stealthy groups like Thousand Sons or Alpha Legion.  It's kinda the glorious thing about 30K, the 'hats' that the legions were are more of a suggested serving size, not a default build requirement. 

[Breakthrough]

Thank you guys,

 

well, that is the Point.

 

I generally think want an Traitor Legion. Cause I always was the bad guy in 40k ;)

I would prefer a legion/Primarch which would reflect me/my characteristic.

 

I am more like a lone Wolf, ( no no space vikings ;) ) I am more like a Hermit, I take my time alone and I enjoy the time I have alone ;)

My character is wierd, I have moments where I am relaxed, but then when I am betrayed ;) I can be pissed off fast, could freak out in minutes but then 5 min later all cut be ok but I am a bit unforgiving, I dont really forget such sings, I first react impulsive but when I came down I am more an strategist, and I need the pressure, the more pressure the better I am working :)

 

I know, now you have to be an psychologist, but I hope its ok that I write this lines, so that you can help me a bit.

My problem is , allout there are so much legions, I find cool and have earned it to get played, but I cant really decide.

 

Greetings

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

You sound like Perturabo. He's a brilliant strategist and cold but when he snaps, oh man, he rivals Angron in his rages. Also, he and his legion are known for the chronic bitterness. Another option is Mortarion who is bitter and known for not forgetting slights against his legion but also being a chronic loner at heart and distant.

[Papy carni]

Greating everyone,

As I'm starting to put the finger in 30K, I'm struggling between two legions to choose from.

Imperial fists and Ultramarines (so classic)

I'm seeking for loyalist legion, no shattered legion.

Allies in form of mechanicum and or Imp. Militia will definitly come at one point or another as I love them. (and they might evolve as army of their own later)

Playing style i'm a defensive/shooty player who like is arty shells/big guns and pintpointing assault/counter assault.
I like balanced army, wich allow tanks, infantry, on foot or mechanised, Fast attack are fun too for flyers.

Rulewise,to me IF seems overally better than UM, bolter boost for everyone (tanks included ?) vs reroll of 1 to wound for the footslogging and dread only.
IF RoW seems actually usefull vs nope.

In the painting corner, I like both, i want to do a colorfull army for a change, with weathering and Yellow/black vs Blue/white both works. But a friend of mine is IF maniac.

On the Fluff part, Both are good, I like the knighty touch of the Fists they seems pretty much germanic/teutonic to me. I like Dorn no Bulls**t, no time for diplomacy character, but the "I'm just a military force" struggle me a bit.

To the contrary, I like Guilliman greater vision, the idea that there's no hope of healing if you don't rebuild after you destroyed. The legion is nice if a bit psychorigid in the obedience.

All in all I see Dorn more like a Kaiser whereas Guilliman is an imperator.


On side note, Iron warriors with kyr vhalen and Iron Hands had been considered but finaly discarded, as IW fluff is not much that of my taste (perturabo is a spoiled child and a catastrophic leader to me) and Iron Hands don't care of humans and are the epitom of boredom in the paint range, no matter how long you will spent on them, they will look like a black primed blob on the table. (and I've tried a lot of way to paint them)

Anyway, sorry for the long post, hoping for some help from you guys.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Papy carni

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

Corvus Corax or Night Haunter's Legions could work.

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

My original attempt to play NL fell through, but I was finally able to talk my fellow wargamers into playing 30k. They're playing Raven Guard, Mechanicum (2 guys are actually), Imperial Fists, Knights-Errant, Thousand Sons, Iron Hands, and Ultramarines. What should I play to compliment them? I am a traitor at heart if that helps.

[TheStatusJoe]

My original attempt to play NL fell through, but I was finally able to talk my fellow wargamers into playing 30k. They're playing Raven Guard, Mechanicum (2 guys are actually), Imperial Fists, Knights-Errant, Thousand Sons, Iron Hands, and Ultramarines. What should I play to compliment them? I am a traitor at heart if that helps.

 

Knights-Errant? Or do you mean Questor Knights?

 

Knights-Errant would be a really hard army to play, as there's two official models and both are HQs. 

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

My friend is using Nathaniel Garro and a Knight-Errant as the HQs and then either loyalist Death Guard or Ultramarines for the actual legion force.

[TheStatusJoe]

Bold move, but ok.

[Mogsam]

Greating everyone,

 

As I'm starting to put the finger in 30K, I'm struggling between two legions to choose from.

 

Imperial fists and Ultramarines (so classic)

 

I'm seeking for loyalist legion, no shattered legion.

 

Allies in form of mechanicum and or Imp. Militia will definitly come at one point or another as I love them. (and they might evolve as army of their own later)

been considered but

 

Anyway, sorry for the long post, hoping for some help from you guys.

Imp Fists lend themselves more towards an artillery heavy force, but ultramarines are just as good. Their +1 to hit means you can target forces and they can get two masters of signals using the rhino version.

 

As for strength, ultramarines are definately more powerful. They have probably the best (imo) unique unit in their not terminators (but are terminators but better) breacher power axe at initiative nonsense guys.

 

I've played Imp fists quite a few times and not had too many issues. People tend to use alot of breacher and they just don't do enough damage.

 

I've played 3 ultramarine armies at narrative events and lost everytime.

 

Personally, I pick off fluff. Play the Legion you like most then work out the list after. Remember, a World Eater artillery army is just as good and fluffy is the rules as any other Legion. They all have every set up, its just wether their special rules boost them or not.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Mogsam

[Zond]

I dip in and out of HH so forgive if the question has been asked. Post Malevolence is there more psyker shenanigans in 30k? Before it was TSons, WordyBs or bust. Have the loyalists joined the space wizards?

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

To be honest, not really. Chaos Daemons and psychic strength is the traitor legions' domain.

[Torbenos]

In the last year or so I have become more and more engaged with the narrative and stories of the Horus Heresy, a great series of books as everyone here is more than well aware. And as I got myself a new job with some better pay I have become tempted to try and start a Legion together with a friend of mine. He is quite set on playing Salamanders while I am myself less sure, but this isn't just the usual "What Legion should I play problem?" it is more that I am limiting myself substiantially due to the narrative.

 

My first choice would have been Ultramarines as I do adore the Legion and the Chapter both both I suffer from the same problem here that I do in my 40.000 battles. I tend to dislike doing loyalist on loyalist action, the same as how I tend to not be nearly as thrilled playing against the Hawk Lords that my friend fields with my Ultramarines and want to go with a Xenos/Chaos faction instead. It's the same as how when I play WW2 wargames I dislike playing Americans vs UK or similar.

 

My first thought would be for him to play traitor Salamanders or me to play traitor Ultramarines but both of these seems largely unprescedented in the narrative of the Heresy as far as I can tell? Which left me feeling a little bit iffy on that front.

 

My second choice for a Legion would likely be the Thousand Sons as I do adore my wizardry and they of course have the benefit of being a Traitor Legion when compared to the Salamanders, although the more I read about their actions during the Heresy the more it seems they did not take part in it beyond the Fall of Prospero? I would love to be told I am wrong here and I might very well have missed something.

 

How do people here generally try to spin these things, assuming you are concerned with the narrative basis for the fighting somewhat like I am? It is often said obviously that very little records do exist from the dark days of the Heresy so it might just be that I should take the freedom to make up my own smaller scale wars between the Salamanders and the Thousand Sons or similar, but as I am yet a novice in regards to the setting I cannot say I feel comfortable enough for that at this point.

 

It has just been something on my mind as I read over the Legions and the rules, any thoughts or advice is welcome.

[Vykes]

Honestly, Torbenos, the Heresy is one of those delightful spots where loyalties are so nebulous that Blue-on-Blue actions are common enough to be perfectly reasonable.  With the Unremembered Empire of Imperium Secundus, and the fragmented nature of the Salamanders who can be questioned due to the apparent death of Vulkan and the unveiling of Promethium cults, it might be viewed as cause enough to fight.    

 

I'd say go for the narrative of traitor Ultramarines (while I can't think of any that were openly declaring for the Warmaster, it's not remotely unthinkable that there were a lot of covert sympathies towards the message of the Lupercal: the control of Astartes over the destiny of the legions was evidently convincing.  So even just a company or chapter officer being in league with the Lupercal and commanding the efforts of otherwise loyalist troops is reasonable enough.  It also might be a fun way to fit in a unique command squad unit with black instead of white, and some Warrior Lodge motifs like the eye... which was used by loyalists in some groups like the Iron Hands and thus not so readily questioned).  Or it might just be extremist Salamanders needing to be culled for their spreading of the Cult of the Emperor. The Unremembered Empire is also a pretty big mark against the Ultramarines, "The affairs of Konor aren't that of Nocturne or Terra.  If it were, then the Warmaster would be dictating civil law in the Hegemon.  This is Ultramar, Emperor Sanguinius, beloved by all, is in control."  

 

And if you don't like that plot point, then ya got good reason to be a Blackshield to convince others to abandon that cause.  What is left unknown is often that which would change one's mind, as we saw in The Purge. 

 

 

Beyond that, the Ultramarines can be somewhat... dismissive, of other legions.

Remus knelt beside the body, studying the armour and its iconography. Jagged-toothed dragons emblazoned upon fields of fire combined with hammer and forge symbols to create an earthy, Promethean feel. Too feral, too cultish to be Imperial. It had the look of a savage culture raised up to civilisation, but which would never really be civilised.

 

Salamanders. Even the name sounded barbarous. A Legion named for the legendary fire-breathing monsters of a forgotten age. The name had no gravitas, and Remus shook his head at its primitive, visceral nature.

 

~Rules of Engagement

 

 

So as to what the spark is?  Well, that one's up ta ya. 

 

I'd say don't be restrained, plot out your idea for a force first and then write it up, see what catches you and do even more research and you might find something you particularly like.  

 

But if you want to go with Thousand Sons, eh, good luck: honestly there are enclaves that were around the galaxy at the time of Prospero so it could be a company here or there that declares for loyalists, or traitors, or blackshields alike. 

[Torbenos]

A very helpful reply Vykes, thank you! A lot of good stuff there and I do think you have helped me decide to play a traitor Ultramarine element. I found out about the Unmarked today, the Chapters of the Ultramarines who were not at Calth and seemingly suffered discrimination from the rest of the Legion in the wake of it, branded as outsiders and put to menial or very distant work. Seems like that could form a base for it.

[TheSpeckledTrout]

Hey guys,

 

I’ve been dipping my feet into heresy on-and-off for the past two years (building and painting one or two Dark Angels marines here and there), reading the Black Library and Black Books, and doing some writing of my own. I’m ready to pick a legion and settle down, but I can’t get really seem to choose. I was hoping that you all could help focus me in a direction.

 

The Force: I love the idea of the Armored Breakthrough Rite of War, and don’t mind the Tank Transport limitations. Slogging through the battlefield is a waste of time. The ideal MotL character is as cheap as his Predator and I really like the idea of modeling both the tank and the cupola-mounted marine as unique presences on the table. Mark III is, objectively, cooler than any other, though the largely irrelevant Mark VI boasts its attractive Rogue Trader style.

 

The Units: Autocannon Predators have a savagery all their own, even if I have a sweet spot for the idea of a whistling-blowing sergeant heralding in a 10-strong melta-gunner advance up the field from dug-in defenses. If I’m bringing a dreadnought, they best be able to put a hole in anything at range - claws are for animals. I like the idea of flying a Xiphon flight in a close air support mission.

 

The Unwanted Legions: Salamanders don’t appeal to me beyond the massed wall of melta fire they bring to the table, which seems to play second fiddle to flamer weapons. The White Scars, Night Lords, Sons of Horus, along with overly wolfy Space Wolves, all share a bizarre aesthetic with trinket and hair components - this is a military force, not a rabble. The Imperial Fists and Alpha Legion are simply too bland, and frankly, uninspiring, Templars and black-clad legion special forces aside. The Thousand Sons, while neat, don’t entice me with their sorcerery gimmick - I stand by the Edict. The Blood Angels and World Eaters, while outstanding in their fields, simply don’t work to my interests.

 

The Iron Hands: spare me the augmentation, Ferrus. The Xth’s rules are appealing, and Beauty Queen Castrmen Orth is a huge draw. That being said, I am not a huge fan of color-shift blacks, metallic silver, and flat whites - there’d need to be some red or blue hidden in the scheme. Lastly, I could care less about the robot parts, which really don’t appeal greatly to me - keep your cyborg hand inside your gauntlet, please.

 

The Ultramarines: big and beautiful, which the culture to match. They don’t sync perfectly with my ideal force plan, but that cobalt and white (yes, white) looks sharp. The Suzerains are the stars of the show, and I wouldn’t mind giving them front and center, either. My only gripe is with the rules.

 

The Death Guard: one look at the Deathshroud and I wanted to field them. Forget Typhon’s ideal of a pox-infused horde, show me Mortarion’s brutally professional army of tyrant-killing stoics. While I have no love for the Reaper’s model, I do like his legion’s color scheme, and wouldn’t mind mounting Chem-Flamers on those tanks for added crowd-control.

 

The Word Bearers: I am no fan of the heretic legion as they appeared in Calth, but rather in their early showings during the Crusade and up to Isstvan V. Granite grey and bright fire, with only a touch of that new faith showing through.

 

The Raven Guard: fantastic aesthetic and great rules, but largely incompatible with my vision of an army. Corax and I simply don’t agree.

 

The Emperor’s Children: I would love to see an Emperor’s Children Mark VI tank force on the tabletop. It’s weird, it’s inexplicable chronologically, and it’s rules-adverse, but it’s my guilty pleasure. If there was some bizarre way to make it work, I’d try it.

 

The Dark Angels: my affair with the first has left me wanting more, but they are crippled by their mediocrity. I’m hoping beyond hope that Book 9 will let my Ironwing’s Voted-Lieutenant embark on his Wing’s armor. I love the color scheme, the lore, the aesthetic, and the Armory of the Dark Age. I would break my rule and embrace Mark II for the Calibanites.

 

The Luna Wolves: my secret conceit, that a Luna Wolves army would just be too exemplary on the battlefield to pass up, in spite of rules and prevailing events in the Horus Heresy rendering them obsolete in an Armored Breakthrough army - where did the loyalists get and maintain all these tanks?!

 

The Iron Warriors: the real heroes of the story and a neat front runner pick for me. Shredding cupola-mounted bolters, waves of siege-breaking infantry, and a lovely muted color scheme that looks right at home in the muck - I need reasons to avoid this already popular legion, rather than reasons why not to pick it.

 

I’d love to hear what you all think, and looking forward to asking more questions!

[Vykes]

I've gotta hand it to you, SpeckledTrout, my dude, I don't think I've seen anyone so antithetical to my usual themes and tastes that's still a proper legion born and not some scruffy Gunpla-gaucho or mechano-man fetishist* :P 

 

Honestly, I'd say that you might be counting the World Eaters out a little quick on a theme, they used to be pretty big exemplars of massed armored combat (as did the Iron Hands, though their colours are still gonna be a notable problem if you aren't into the monochromes and tints).  But straight up, I think sticking with Dark Angels may yield some of the best results long term, and book 9 does seem like they'll allow you a fair bit of flexibility from what's being reeled off right now.  though if pushed I'd also say 'Well, Luna Wolves are awfully cool... aaaawfully cool, yez.'**

 

That said, counter questions if you don't mind (which may help this a little bit) Do you see a place/role for mounted infantry?  How do you feel about bikes/scimitars/speeders/Land Raiders? (Just seeing if you feel like you need a breath of fresh air after a while, can you switch to something like Armored Spearhead or the like)

 

The thing about 30K is that thematically, virtually every legion has formations and groups that fulfill all of the roles and 'rites of war' even if they aren't the most common within the legion itself.  So saying 'Iron Hands Sky Hunter Phalanx' is pretty okay.  

 

 

'*s cool, it's all cool.  I just find it kind of amazing. 

**For... reasons, that might be that my legion armies are both 16th legion. 

[TheSpeckledTrout]

Thanks for the response first off!

 

I want to address that I don’t think I can do the XIIth justice without recreating Khârn’s Amratura attack force - that heady group of axe-men sprinkled with destroyers - and would be far drawn from their incarnation of Patton, nails hot a shrieking orders on his command tank.

 

First question: mounted infantry are a must, but I would prefer not to be underwhelmed by tactical squads disembarking in the shadows of battle tanks. I’ve fiddled with the wild beast that is “Ironwing Protocol”, which always seems to permutate my vision into a plasma-destroyer/jetbike/deredeo balancing dilemma. If there’s going to be infantry in my force, I want them to be special, and feel like this armored column is breaking through (hmm) on their behalf.

 

On your skimmers and Land Raider question, I’m going to have to say I’ve been trying to avoid both. The first because of the widespread use of Mark IV armored scattered around, and the second because it feels like a bad compromise between battle tank and transport. I do want to have an infantry HQ stuck in with my death star to allow for a completely different rite of war if needed.

 

On your last point, totally agree, and want to use the mutability to my advantage.

[Vykes]

Eeh, all good mate, all good!  

 

Actually it was basically Kharne's Armatura attack force I was considering as an option, too.  Or something along that route.  One of the big reasons becomes the role of infantry as they're usually diametrically opposite rules-wise than vehicle-based formations rather than complementary.  Which means, you kinda have to leverage what troops you have to mitigate some worrisome effects.

 

For instance (as something I've done and thus the reason I bring it up, the practical over the theoretical if you will), The Sons of Horus/Luna Wolves end up doing pretty good as dragoon-style minimal tank guards.  With a few cheap 'despoiler' style tactical squads that are able to seize and storm choke points while the tanks really lay down all the ranged fire, even from close in.  Because the 16th does support the use of those mid to short range units, it alleviates some of their mediocrity by helpiing keep the tanks mobile (getting bogged down is both bad, and common for me thanks to the more-than-occasional box-car charge distances they insist never happens to them).  Other legions like World Eaters get their signature chain axes and can do the assault role remarkably well, but it lends itself to vehicles like Raiders with their assault ramp but tend to feel a little less workable with Rhinos.  Choosing something like minimal weaponmaster veteran mounted up in some carrier also gives you something in the Elite option and they are pretty cheap and shouldn't feel too underwhelming

 

And, again, DA, IW, LW, WB, and even EC all work pretty well with it. though I do think the added specialist units for short range firepower that the DA look slated to get, will be a pretty big advantage while remaining thematically appropriate.  As for skimmers, fair enough I suppose.  It's not too bad to convert them and bikers (Though I converted the mk VII to MK IV because it is the most militaristic rather than that archaic boilerplate armor :P) 

 

As for Raiders...... that's a tough one, mostly because the Phobos assault ramp does allow for nice rapid response deployments (like close combat weapon armed volkite charger troopers who feel like an elite assault unit, if they're left in the open they get shot down a lot of the time).  But again, personally I've had zero luck with my squadron of Predators, and at least half-decent luck with my Raider Squadron so it's definitely a classic 'your mileage may vary'. 

 

One of the locals runs Iron Hands Armored formations, and fields up to 15 preds and I think 6 sicarans in the roster, and aside from saying 'please bring those Xiphons, they are both cool and good at the potential problems caused by air-assets' there's not a ton I can say.  I tend to fight it with my heavy armor and it turns into a pretty brutal Kursk style slugging match.

[1ncarnadine]

You can run a splinter of the Iron Hands that have decided Ferrus and his policies were weak, and moved on past flaunting so much bionic replacement. And I'd think something like Mathew Kane's blue/black Ferrus Manus scheme (it's the FW webstore display model) might be exactly what you're looking for if you're not into the metallic oil-black. Another advantage is that you can pretty much swap to their Head of the Gorgon rite on a dime by moving some units around in your force org, and you'll still probably have an effective force.

 

I love your vision of the Word Bearers, though. It would be awesome to see that, maybe with a little grey-armoured hidden hammer of Gal Vorbak in an assault vehicle who insist they've undergone the process for the combat prowess, those poor delusional fools. They're not MkIII I guess but the models are still so good. Yeah, or you could be that one dude who converted MkIII Gal Vorbak. 40k Death Guard minis might make a good base for that. Just sayin'.

Same with the Emperor's Children, love the idea. Would you do traitor or loyalist if so? Purple or black vehicles? There's plenty of reasons why they'd have MkVI and stay less corrupted through the bulk of the Heresy, too. Maybe your force liked its features and ripped it off the still-warm corpses of the XIXth on Isstvan V. Ravasch Cario is a good example of a IIIrd Legion commander who staved off corruption to continue honing his swordsmanship in a more pure sense, so maybe there are tank commands that take similarly excessive pride in their duty (for now). Or perhaps your treadheads were a little too grounded for the core of the Legion and got sent out as a shattered legion pursuit force? I don't know about making it work on the table, though. They're so geared towards close combat. It would be a damn fine sight, at least.

 

Honestly, like Vykes has said, you'd probably be rewarded for sticking with the 1st Legion. The new Sabre tank makes Ironwing list building a little easier, and hopefully there's more to come on that front. Or the Iron Warriors, who I can't reasonably argue against for what you're looking for either. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by LetsYouDown

[TheSpeckledTrout]

Hey! Happy to see more input! I was actually considering a mostly-white Iron Hands force (something I think I could pull of reasonably well) if I went that route.

 

For Emperor's Children, I think that a Rogue-Trader style black or Heresy-historical purple would both be good options, and the force would just look sweet on the tabletop. I think ultimately I'm going to end up doing Head of the Gorgon with Castrmen Orth, if anything else. Thanks for the response!

[Mogsam]

The thing about 30K is that thematically, virtually every legion has formations and groups that fulfill all of the roles and 'rites of war' even if they aren't the most common within the legion itself. So saying 'Iron Hands Sky Hunter Phalanx' is pretty okay.

A[/size]

As a sky hunter EC player, I did look at Iron Hands and its insanely difficult to actually do because of their limitations around infantry per jetbike unit.

 

I agree with this tho. All legions can do all things, so a siege world Eater Army is as fluffy as a bezerker assault.

[The Scorpion]

The Force: I love the idea of the Armored Breakthrough Rite of War, and don’t mind the Tank Transport limitations. Slogging through the battlefield is a waste of time. The ideal MotL character is as cheap as his Predator and I really like the idea of modeling both the tank and the cupola-mounted marine as unique presences on the table. Mark III is, objectively, cooler than any other, though the largely irrelevant Mark VI boasts its attractive Rogue Trader style.

 

The Units: Autocannon Predators have a savagery all their own, even if I have a sweet spot for the idea of a whistling-blowing sergeant heralding in a 10-strong melta-gunner advance up the field from dug-in defenses. If I’m bringing a dreadnought, they best be able to put a hole in anything at range - claws are for animals. I like the idea of flying a Xiphon flight in a close air support mission.

 

The Iron Hands: spare me the augmentation, Ferrus. The Xth’s rules are appealing, and Beauty Queen Castrmen Orth is a huge draw. That being said, I am not a huge fan of color-shift blacks, metallic silver, and flat whites - there’d need to be some red or blue hidden in the scheme. Lastly, I could care less about the robot parts, which really don’t appeal greatly to me - keep your cyborg hand inside your gauntlet, please.

 

Join the forces of Clan Morragul.

 

Iron Hands rules? You got it.

 

Dislike Ferrus and augmentation but you still want to remain loyal to a fault? The Red Talons got your back.

 

Want something to paint besides black, and metallics? Morragul's you covered. Red spiced everywhere: the shoulderpads of the 'Blood Wrought', the claws of the deads, the cockpits of the aircraft, the chapter markings on the immortals. (check the art of Retribution).

 

Think Shadrak Meduson's guerilla warfare is for ? So does Autek Mor, tomorrow we assault the World Eaters at Bodt with Mastodons, but not before dropping the F*KING MOON on them first.

Edited June 8, 2020 by The Scorpion

[MegaVolt87]

 

The Force: I love the idea of the Armored Breakthrough Rite of War, and don’t mind the Tank Transport limitations. Slogging through the battlefield is a waste of time. The ideal MotL character is as cheap as his Predator and I really like the idea of modeling both the tank and the cupola-mounted marine as unique presences on the table. Mark III is, objectively, cooler than any other, though the largely irrelevant Mark VI boasts its attractive Rogue Trader style.

 

The Units: Autocannon Predators have a savagery all their own, even if I have a sweet spot for the idea of a whistling-blowing sergeant heralding in a 10-strong melta-gunner advance up the field from dug-in defenses. If I’m bringing a dreadnought, they best be able to put a hole in anything at range - claws are for animals. I like the idea of flying a Xiphon flight in a close air support mission.

 

The Iron Hands: spare me the augmentation, Ferrus. The Xth’s rules are appealing, and Beauty Queen Castrmen Orth is a huge draw. That being said, I am not a huge fan of color-shift blacks, metallic silver, and flat whites - there’d need to be some red or blue hidden in the scheme. Lastly, I could care less about the robot parts, which really don’t appeal greatly to me - keep your cyborg hand inside your gauntlet, please.

 

Join the forces of Clan Morragul.

 

Iron Hands rules? You got it.

 

Dislike Ferrus and augmentation but you still want to remain loyal to a fault? The Red Talons got your back.

 

Want something to paint besides black, and metallics? Morragul's you covered. Red spiced everywhere: the shoulderpads of the 'Blood Wrought', the claws of the deads, the cockpits of the aircraft, the chapter markings on the immortals. (check the art of Retribution).

 

Think Shadrak Meduson's guerilla warfare is for ? So does Autek Mor, tomorrow we assault the World Eaters at Bodt with Mastodons, but not before dropping the F*KING MOON on them first.

 

 

Hm, if I omit IH markings they would be perfect as a scouring era force I could port to 40k as a successor chapter (Red Talons? Brazen Claws? diffrent sucessors?) as a foil to my scouring era 40k IW's.   But the new HH DA's are much prettier though.... 

[Qkhitai]

Hello, fine HH folks. So, 4 years ago now, I bought myself two boxes of Betrayal at Calth, but they've been sat on my shelf ever since because I just can't settle on a legion. I've considered every legion more than once, drafted list after list, written more test fluff than my keyboard could handle, but I always end up back at square one. The crux of the issue is, I actually know what legion I want to play, but I don't feel like I can play them. The legion in question is the Alpha Legion. They captured my imagination long ago; I spend more time pouring over Twentieth Legion project logs here than any other and my heart races whenever I read stories and fluff about them. I love the idea of the prideful young upstarts as they were originally outlined in their IA article; the guys with unshakable - if perhaps misplaced - faith in themselves and their abilities, but who never had the chance to prove it - determined to show everyone else just how good they are, even if that means embracing Chaos and going to war with the galaxy.

 

The trouble is, every time I come back to them, Forgeworld's fluff gets in the way. And I actually don't mind what FW did with them, it's pretty good (although Abnett isn't forgiven for the whole 'maybe they're actually secret loyalists' thing). But as someone who is far more invested in the lore and narrative side of the hobby than actually gaming, the modern day Alpha Legion is antithetical to my needs as a hobbyist. I would like to be able to model a company or some kind of fixed unit, to trace their rise and fall over the course of the Heresy, and to convert each model - giving them each their own name, their own backstory, their own identity. And how FW has written the Alpha Legion, as a legion that doesn't have fixed companies, where everything is so fluid and malleable, where legionnaires are faceless and everyone is 'Alpharius', I don't feel like I can do the project I would want to do with them. So this leads me to look into other legions, only to realise I'm nowhere near as passionate about them as the Twentieth, and so I return to them, find the same roadblock, and the cycle continues. And I'd rather it didn't continue for another four years...

 

I know this might seem silly, but try as I might I can't get myself out of this bind. There are certain things that I can ignore or headcannon away (like the secret loyalist thing, or them incredulously dropping out of the war early in Slaves to Darkness), but through FW and BL the whole "I am Alpharius" shtick has become the core of what the modern legion is now, and it's not something I can look past. So, as a departure from the traditional 'what legion should I play?' question, I'd like to ask: how can I play the legion I want to play? Can anyone help me brainstorm a scenario in which there might be some kind of fixed Alpha Legion company/detachment/taskforce, which could conceivably operate from day one of the Heresy right through to the end, and where everyone is an individual and not just another Alpharius clone? I don't really like the 'they're all old Terrans who don't jive well with their new Primarch' cop-out, but I like the idea of some kind of specialist detachment where its members can't be moved around so easily, or maybe some kind of cult/lodge connection that binds them outside of the traditional legion hierarchy (or lack thereof)? If anyone had any thoughts I would be greatly appreciative!