434 replies to this topic

[Charlo]

Does "opponent's consent" really matter though? How much of a jerk does one need to be to deny a friend/buddy to have fun and play what he likes?

I think it's there purely to stop the cheese train. E.g. "oh yeah my warlord is AL so I get mutable tactics on all my other stuff, which aren't even alpha Legion"

[Dosjetka]

Between the Raven Guard, White Scars and Blood Angels, which Legion would fit the description "hit hard and fast (but crumble if you make a mistake or get hit toomany times)" the best? Since this is the kind playstyle I adopt when playing other games, I'm wondering which Legion would reflect this "trait" the most.

[Charlo]

Between the Raven Guard, White Scars and Blood Angels, which Legion would fit the description "hit hard and fast (but crumble if you make a mistake or get hit toomany times)" the best? Since this is the kind playstyle I adopt when playing other games, I'm wondering which Legion would reflect this "trait" the most.

RG for sure with thier Decap strike rite of War. Very alpha strike focused but nit much heavy armour allowed. Plus your terminators get furious charge etc.

Other than that, WS probably second between very good rules and Rites of War. Hell - combine the two in shattered legions and run the WS rite that let's you regain or deny victory points for your units. Then you can go headlong into the enemy with little consequences.

Plus white and black will look awesomeness together.

[Reaver Lord Soul]

Brothers and Sisters of B&C, I need your help on what legion would be best for me

 

I have been recently speaking with a friend of mine and we have both been planning 30k forces for us to do a joint thread once he has the relevant funds. However, I`m feeling a bit out of place in it due to the fact that it`s basically him coming up with all the ideas/names/fluff basically so I would like to go my own way with what I want to do. I have read both this thread and the previous one so I can safely say that each legion appeals to me in some regard but I just don`t know which one to go for. If anyone could recommend a legion that fit the following points it would be much appreciated

 

1) There must be Choom.

2) There must be breachers.

3) The paint scheme must be simple for me to achieve due to my lack of painting skills.

 

Help me B&C, your my only hope

[Skalpynock]

 

1) There must be Choom.

2) There must be breachers.

3) The paint scheme must be simple for me to achieve due to my lack of painting skills.

Iron Hands. There shall be Choom and Breachers in the form of the Medusan Immortals, and painting black and steel isn't really a complex matter.

[Charlo]

 

 

1) There must be Choom.

2) There must be breachers.

3) The paint scheme must be simple for me to achieve due to my lack of painting skills.

Iron Hands. There shall be Choom and Breachers in the form of the Medusan Immortals, and painting black and steel isn't really a complex matter.

 

 

Plus they literally just got a RoW that makes them troops! Plus you get stubbourn in the enemy deployment zone and hatred traitors accross the rest of the force!

 

Combine with Autek Mor for just supreme destruction.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Does "opponent's consent" really matter though? How much of a jerk does one need to be to deny a friend/buddy to have fun and play what he likes?

Yea, it matters a lot.

Because what one person finds fun another may hate, and in any two player game that lasts for 2hrs plus it's the duty of BOTH players to make the game fun for their opponent.

It's pretty much why Unbound armies confuse me

[Player 404]

Does "opponent's consent" really matter though? How much of a jerk does one need to be to deny a friend/buddy to have fun and play what he likes?

Yea, it matters a lot.

Because what one person finds fun another may hate, and in any two player game that lasts for 2hrs plus it's the duty of BOTH players to make the game fun for their opponent.

It's pretty much why Unbound armies confuse me

I have to agree. And to turn the original question around, how much of a jerk does one need to be to insist on playing with an unfair advantage?

[Frater Cornelius]

I was actually thinking about a far less extreme scenario, where someone wanted to realize the fluff of is army in the rules and created a fun little Shattered Legion force that isn't based on any sort of abuse. If someone wants to win that badly, he can win for I care, but he can not expect that people will like him for that. These things usually take care of themselves in th long run.

 

My feeling is that FW gave us this restriction because they knew they wouldn't find all the possible exploits themselves and preemtpively decided to stop those.

[ronin_cse]

 

 

From everything you've said there is super obvious you want to do Ultras

Maybe paint some WB too on the side.

Really? I isn't obvious to me . What was it I said that makes you think I am leaning toward Ultras? Obviously some major subconscious stuff going on in my typing here

Shattered Legions! An unlikely alliance of Word Bearers who have remained had a reversal of thought abd are now fighting with the Ultramarines against their erstwhile brethren!

I still have trouble reconciling the fluff with this. I mean the UMs humiliated the WBs, even if they broke from their legion don't you think they would still have the UMs? Also like I said can't really do Gal Vorbak in this case and that is like one of the main reason to go with WBs :/

Edit: I mean that in regards to the fluff btw...afaik I could totally take Gal Vorbak in a loyalist Shattered Legion list allied with UMs.

Sure, there are definitely Word Bearers who hate the Ultramarines. Although from Argel Tal and Sor Talgron, we see Word Bearers who don't really care about the Ultramarines beyond "they're an enemy". Of course, we also get Narek who first came onto the scene as a Word Bearer who believed in the Traitors' cause, but doesn't agree with how Chaos is mutating his Legion and has since made it his goal to kill Lorgar and "fix" his Legion.

So the Word Bearers have a smorgasboard of variable potential.

For example, following the theme of repentant Word Bearers, it could be some had already become Gal Vorbak before they "saw the error of their ways" and as a result, have since become the local shock troops who have vowed to cause
as much damage to the enemy as possible before they receive penance in the form of death.

Or whatever else you can think of.

 

 

My problem is I can't think of a good reason that the Ultramarines would work with the mutated Gal Vorbak. Also was thinking that the Daemons possessing the marines wouldn't fight other traitor forces, but really they could just be aligned with Tzeetch or whatever and working for their own goals.

 

Or approach the problem from the other side, and have traitor Ultramarines.

 

Well the problem is I want to use Guilliman if I am going to do UM .

 

I think I'm going to go with UM as my main force and then work on an allied Shattered legion made up of whatever I want at the moment. Thinking about it there are things that neither legion really provides like super elite assault troops so I would like to have some Fire Drakes or Gorgons or something anyways. This way I don't have to regret not going with UM and I can still have side projects when I feel like painting some other color. Thanks for the help everyone! Actually Charlo telling me jokingly that I really wanted to play UM is kind of what did it...kind of implanted the worm of that idea in my head and it grew from there

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

They are your little plastic soldiers, and you can do what you want with them.

However, getting opponents to go along with your "vision" may prove difficult

[Kol Saresk]

Mind y'all, I haven't read the rules for Shattered Legions, but IIRC, there are caveats to taking it in the form of certain units requiring a specific HQ and that certain Legion traits cannot be taken at all. So a lot of the "cheese" stops right there, especially when combined with the fact that Forgeworld still uses the old Force Org chart and not the new CAD/Unbound format.

 

But for the most part, opponent consent is a big deal, only if it is sometimes used as a pain in the butt. FW and GW intend for it to be a way of evening the odds. Instead it gets used to prevent CSM from taking their respective FW units in tournaments and to still prevent FW in general, and sometimes specifically the Heresy, from being used in local meta.

 

So on the one hand, I can fully agree that opponent consent should be tossed out the window. But in the face of such stupidity, sometimes it makes the difference to bring fun back to the game because you can find an opponent who is willing to go against the local meta and have a game.

 

EDIT: Ronin; hey, I can't thank of everything But I would say the daemons wouldn't really care. Their primary interest is self-preservation and killing things. They don't really care who they kill. After all, Raum wanted to kill Erebus and he's supposed to be a big player.

Edited by Kol Saresk, 16 March 2016 - 05:01 PM.

[Terminus]

Does "opponent's consent" really matter though? How much of a jerk does one need to be to deny a friend/buddy to have fun and play what he likes?

I think it's there purely to stop the cheese train. E.g. "oh yeah my warlord is AL so I get mutable tactics on all my other stuff, which aren't even alpha Legion"

Except it doesn't even work like that? Only the Alpha elements would have mutable tactics, although I guess you could use Alpha apothecaries to give non-Alphas tank hunter or infiltrate. Really, the broken Legion for shattered forces are Ultras, who lose all their drawbacks and give interlocking tactics to EVERYTHING.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Terminus is right, the only elements of a special legion rule that's wholly spread is the Night Vision and the marking ability for interlocking tactics.

 

That being said, giving your opponents a choice about something and then calling them a jerk or doing the whole communal shame thing when they choose the way you don't like, in accordance with the rules, is questionable.

[Terminus]

For what it's worth, we just had a 30+ participant escalating narrative event (search for South Texas in Flames) where Shattered Legions and Blackshields were allowed (but no allied detachments since that didn't mesh with scenario specifics), and no one drowned in cheddar.

Also, do people really PUG 30K? Sounds as dreadful as PUG AoS or 40K anything.

Edited by Terminus, 16 March 2016 - 09:24 PM.

[Brother Chaplain Kage]

Avon calling! Oh, no, wait...

 

 

Let's go back to that first post from Slipstreams, shall we?

 

 

Now, a few additions to the above so that discussion remains focused and doesn't occasionally turn into micro debates on stuff that might not exactly pertain to the topic at hand.

 

As such, we'll (Me, Flint, BCK) be a bit more aggressive, moving forwards, with pruning extraneous posts to keep any potential bloat down as well as, stated above, keep the discussion focused.

 

So, how can you help keep the discussion focused?

 

Well, I'm glad you asked! Here's a few pointers (these are by no means absolutes):

• Avoid stating "Why play Legion/Army X/Y/Z?! They Suck!" or something to that effect. It doesnt really help anyone (which is the point of the topic) nor does the person you're saying that really care about said opinion since he wants to play said Legions/Army anyways.
• Highlight what makes Playing/Painting/Collecting said Legions/Armies fun, what limitations one can reasonably expect, etc.
• Try to keep talk about the minutiae of how Legions Play/Operate/Work within the rules to their Dedicated Tactica Threads.

 

Is that enough emphasis? Because I can dumb it down some more if the point isn't getting across.

Edited by Brother Chaplain Kage, 18 March 2016 - 10:40 PM.

[Viridia]

So I've been thinking, since the advent of Shattered Legions, about adding a potential third Legion to my VII and VIII legions. Both of those are fairly dark-coloured Legions, and I'm looking for something a bit brighter that I can basically use as a third mini-army. (By that, I mean around 1000 points since I've got long-term plans to stretch both my NL and IF's to 4000 points each in the years to come.) I'm envisaging this third faction to be one based around the use of the Armoured Breakthrough ROW, wit the actual list being built around the strengths of whatever Legion I choose.

 

There's a few choices that I'm looking at;

 

White Scars - The epitome of fast, love the colour scheme and the upgrade bits they get, their rules and unique wargear.

 

Emperor's Children - While I'm not a big EC fan, I do like their unique units and their colour scheme.

 

Luna Wolves - The archetypical Legionaries, at least to me. Love the colour scheme, love the rules for the SoH that I'd use as counts-as and some of the units, just slightly gutted that there's no specific parts for them as it's all the SoH.

 

Death Guard - Again, love the fluff, love the colour scheme, and some interesting units/wargear.

[xxoblivionxx33]

I'm in need of help finding a legion. 
I enjoy doing a mix of everything but i enjoy shooting and long range high strength fire support. 
Any help would be great. 

[Frater Cornelius]

I'm in need of help finding a legion. 
I enjoy doing a mix of everything but i enjoy shooting and long range high strength fire support. 
Any help would be great. 

 

Well, Ultramarines offer a good balance. Their Legion rule benefits shooting as well as melee. They have access to some of the best melee units with their unique units and still bring the standard Legion firepower to boot.

 

Next you have the Iron Hands. These guys are pretty much geared for shooting, but they have some solid units to participate in melee. However, they have difficulties to sweep anything, so you will pretty much just shoot and use assault defensively if at all.

Iron Warriors are all about long-ranged firepower, but they have a Rite of War that allows them to charge after firing Rapid Fire weapons.

Both Iron Hands And Iron Warriors are Sworn Brothers with the Mechanicum and allow Battle Automatas to be taken as Elite choices, giving you plenty of punch in melee department.

 

And then there are of course the Imperial Fists. They shoot pretty well, especially with Bolters while having access to some nasty melee units, better Breachers and possibly the best duellist character short of a Primarch. They are geared towards a defensive play style, but you can mix it up by having your Terminators deep strike aggressively. Being able to deep strike Terminators is pretty rare in 30k.

 

Those would be my pick of the top of my head, anyway

[Atia]

 

I'm in need of help finding a legion. 
I enjoy doing a mix of everything but i enjoy shooting and long range high strength fire support. 
Any help would be great. 

 

Well, Ultramarines offer a good balance. Their Legion rule benefits shooting as well as melee. They have access to some of the best melee units with their unique units and still bring the standard Legion firepower to boot.

 

Next you have the Iron Hands. These guys are pretty much geared for shooting, but they have some solid units to participate in melee. However, they have difficulties to sweep anything, so you will pretty much just shoot and use assault defensively if at all.

Iron Warriors are all about long-ranged firepower, but they have a Rite of War that allows them to charge after firing Rapid Fire weapons.

Both Iron Hands And Iron Warriors are Sworn Brothers with the Mechanicum and allow Battle Automatas to be taken as Elite choices, giving you plenty of punch in melee department.

 

And then there are of course the Imperial Fists. They shoot pretty well, especially with Bolters while having access to some nasty melee units, better Breachers and possibly the best duellist character short of a Primarch. They are geared towards a defensive play style, but you can mix it up by having your Terminators deep strike aggressively. Being able to deep strike Terminators is pretty rare in 30k.

 

Those would be my pick of the top of my head, anyway

 

Don't forget the Ultramarines' special Terminators. Also you may consider the Iron Warriors, with their Siege Tyrants, Iron Havocs and Artillery

Edited by Atia, 20 March 2016 - 12:47 PM.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I have several random questions not destined to be gloriousenough for their own thread:

 

1) What was the "typical" mark of Power Armour utilised by the Blood Angels? Like how the Raven Guard use Corvus and World Eaters had loads of Mk4.

2) My current Legions do close-range dakka (Salamanders) and mechanised assaults (World Eaters) and I ponder - what Legion next, for I have no financial control. Which Legion would offer me a completely different playstyle to mye existing Legions in your opinions?

 

(Excluding: Iron Warriors, Raven Guard, Word Bearers)

 

I was thinking Terminator laden Death Guard, Assault Marine swarms of EC or BA, mixed Terminator/Assault Marine SoH (But dat paint scheme ugh) or some form of drop assault (though I may reserve this for my Eaters of Worlds). Basically I have a lot of tanks or tactical swarms. I like the idea of smaller, elite armies (Terminators or Jump Packed elites etc)

 

3) Sons of Horus - what is the easiest way to get these guy's colour right? I am tempted to do Catulan Company so I can primarily douse them in black and get away with painting the shoulder pads and helm faceplates ocean green. I love their units, I love their playstyle but their colour scheme is infinitely offputting. I love Salamanders because AP Greenskin, blap done. I love World Eaters because Corax White, blap done. I can't find any spray can that would net me SoH green. Perhaps I should learn how to airbrush at last...

Edited by The God-Potato of Mankind, 23 March 2016 - 11:43 AM.

[The Acid Dog]

 

3) Sons of Horus - what is the easiest way to get these guy's colour right? I am tempted to do Catulan Company so I can primarily douse them in black and get away with painting the shoulder pads and helm faceplates ocean green. I love their units, I love their playstyle but their colour scheme is infinitely offputting. I love Salamanders because AP Greenskin, blap done. I love World Eaters because Corax White, blap done. I can't find any spray can that would net me SoH green. Perhaps I should learn how to airbrush at last...

 

Prime black. Basecoat Mechanicus Standard, layer/overbrush Dawnstone, drybrush/highlight Administratum Grey. Wash carefully with Coelia Greenshade.  Four steps, but they're all very very fast steps.  In fact, if I remember right, there's a Mechanicus Standard spray can, now, dropping it down to three.  Can bang out Legionaries plenty fast with it.

 

Just make sure to be careful with the wash. Don't slop it around, let it pool too much, etc. You can fuss around with the shade of grey for darker/brighter, if you like.

Looks like this: 

 

Have the AoD Frater considered a thread for indexing Legion paint tutorials? The thought of "I don't know how to paint that Legion," or "I love them, but don't have enough faith in my painting skills to do that Legion," is never something that should hold someone back.

 

EDIT: Quote brackets were nowhere near the end of that post... I give up on replying by phone, here.

Edited by Brazentooth, 23 March 2016 - 04:09 PM.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

 

 

3) Sons of Horus - what is the easiest way to get these guy's colour right? I am tempted to do Catulan Company so I can primarily douse them in black and get away with painting the shoulder pads and helm faceplates ocean green. I love their units, I love their playstyle but their colour scheme is infinitely offputting. I love Salamanders because AP Greenskin, blap done. I love World Eaters because Corax White, blap done. I can't find any spray can that would net me SoH green. Perhaps I should learn how to airbrush at last...

 

Prime black. Basecoat Mechanicus Standard, layer/overbrush Dawnstone, drybrush/highlight Administratum Grey. Wash carefully with Coelia Greenshade.  Four steps, but they're all very very fast steps.  In fact, if I remember right, there's a Mechanicus Standard spray can, now, dropping it down to three.  Can bang out Legionaries plenty fast with it.

 

Just make sure to be careful with the wash. Don't slop it around, let it pool too much, etc. You can fuss around with the shade of grey for darker/brighter, if you like.

Looks like this: 

 

 

Have the AoD Frater considered a thread for indexing Legion paint tutorials? The thought of "I don't know how to paint that Legion," or "I love them, but don't have enough faith in my painting skills to do that Legion," is never something that should hold someone back.

 

EDIT: Quote brackets were nowhere near the end of that post... I give up on replying by phone, here.

 

 

Cheers, I'll attempt a test mini on a poor, unsuspecting BaC Marine soon.

 

I have a can of Mechanicus Grey just sitting there, and boats of Coelia I bought for Salamandersbut never used. LET THE SONS OF HORUS BEGIN!

[Robzilla]

Hi all!

Over the last few months I have finally seen the light. My 40k projects have been sold, shelves or donated, my bits box repurposed and three betrayal at Calths are currently weighing down my desk. That's right folks, oi bought my ticket to the heresy train!

Now here's the rub... Oddly, I'm quite set on my first legion. Alpha legion. (For my second third and fourth planned that's a whole other matter entirely) so that isn't a concern. What is a concern is time and cost. I have a little boy at home so time is of a premium, so I don't want to end up painting a ton of stuff I'll never use, when I could spend time painting up stuff I can and will use instead!

Secondly, my wife is at university, so income is quite fixed at the moment... So I'm being very budget conscious. Whatever I buy is done out of painting and selling old stuff, or a particularly good bonus from work (which are few and far between).

So... I guess I'm looking for a little shopping guidance.
I like the idea of a vet heavy pride of the legion force backed by skorr. The idea I can be so flexible in the army style between games through the various special rules that would be available is appealing, but does this work? And if so what extras would i do well with picking up to go alongside?

I'm ok magnetising stuff up, and with a relatively decent amount of converting and sculpting so that wouldn't be a concern.

Cheers in advance

[ElectricPaladin]

My understanding of Alpha Legion is that you can do pretty well with just various specialized legion forces and no/limited vehicles, since you can easily give Infiltrate or Outflank to whoever you like. So if you've already got three Calths, you're set to Infiltrate big blobs of tactical marines (plus a few smaller squads of veteran tactical marines with various special weapons) with vexillas onto objectives. If you want to go that route, my thoughts for what to buy next include:

 

1. Apothecaries (note that you can pretty easily make "line apothecaries" out of Calth marines plus eBay bits and save the FW models for primus medicaes). I know that veteran tactical squads are appealing, but don't underestimate the durability of twenty tactical marines with Feel No Pain Infiltrating onto on objective with a couple of heavy bolters or missile launchers so they can just sit there and screw with your opponent.
2. Lernean Terminators (your special Legion-specific terminator squad). They're really good and incredibly versatile, with the option to be a mobile long-ranged firebase (a conversion beamer on a Relentless platform) and a close-up threat (power axes and volkite chargers come standard). That gives you the option to deploy them (or Infiltrate them) in reaction to whatever your opponent decides to do.
3. Specialized marine squads. A heavy support squad with lascannons, autocannons, or missile launchers, for example. Or a tactical support squad with volkite.
4. Artillery. They have the Legiones Astartes rule, so you can Infiltrate or Outflank them along with the rest of your sneaky jerk army.
5. A mortis dreadnought (or the extra bits to make one of your Calth dreadnoughts into a mortis) for anti-air support).
6. Tanks. Predator or Vindicator squadrons are awesome. You won't be able to Infiltrate them, but they can drive forward to support the rest of your army.

 

Basically, Alpha Legion is a pretty good choice for you because they don't really need transports, but you need to get some things to support your infantry so they aren't hung out to dry.

Edited by ElectricPaladin, 24 March 2016 - 12:02 AM.