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The Legion For You: Part Two, Electric Boogaloo!


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#51
ElectricPaladin

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Hey Robzilla. Just for fun, I threw together a list using the content of three B@Cs to give you an idea of what sort of army you're already playing - hopefully it'll give you an idea of what to add. I've taken a few liberties with gear, assuming that you're up for buying a couple of weapons off eBay and doing a little kit-bashing.

 

+++ New Roster (2995pts) +++
 
++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++
 
+ HQ +
 
Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Power Dagger, Refractor Field, Single Lightning Claw, Venom Spheres, Volkite Charger]
Consul [Saboteur]
 
Legion Praetor [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Digital Lasers, Paragon Blade, Power Dagger, Volkite Charger]
Master of the Legion [Pride of the Legion]
 
+ Troops +
 
Legion Tactical Squad [19x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]
Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger]
 
Legion Tactical Support Squad [9x Legion Space Marines, Plasma Guns]
Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Dagger]
 
Legion Tactical Support Squad [9x Legion Space Marines, Plasma Guns]
Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Dagger]
 
Legion Terminator Squad [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, 2x Chainfist, 2x Combi-Weapon, Heavy Flamer, 4x Legion Terminators, Volkite Charger]
Legion Terminator Sergeant [Lightning Claw, Power Dagger, Volkite Charger]
 
Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Melta Bombs, 2x Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web and Flakk Missiles, Tank Hunters]
Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon, Power Dagger]
 
Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Melta Bombs, Sniper]
Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon, Power Dagger]
 
+ Elites +
 
Apothecarion Detachment
Legion Apothecary [Augury Scanner]
Legion Apothecary [Augury Scanner]
Legion Apothecary [Augury Scanner]
 
Contemptor Dreadnought Talon
Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Plasma Blaster]
Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Plasma Blaster]
 
Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought [Havoc Launcher, Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons]
 
+ Legion +
 
Legion Astartes [Traitor, XX: Alpha Legion]
 
Created with BattleScribe
 
As you can see, the idea is that almost everything can infiltrate. I recommend starting with the dreadnoughts on the board and walking towards your opponent (though the Mortis will probably want to find a place in cover to watch the skies). You can decide which squad gets the apothecaries at deployment, so put them wherever you think you're going to be taking fire.
 
Like I said, if you want to keep it (relatively) cheap, start by adding more specialized marines, learnean terminators, and rapiers for more things that can infiltrate into position and ruin your opponents' day.
 
Though, with 3k+ points to build and paint, you probably won't "need" anything else any time soon!
 
Alpha Legion is a good choice for B@C. Those of us who chose legions that prefer to run with vehicles (Salamanders, Iron Hands...) had to do a lot more buying to get our legion playing the way it's supposed to...


#52
Robzilla

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Wow!
Cheers buddy! It's much appreciated!
See, I knew three betrayal at Calths was quite a lot, but still... Heh.

I think next on the cards will be some rapier platforms, magnets and more special weapons.


Got a ton of rhino chassis lying around in various states of painting and repair. May have to get converting and repurpose some to predators or vindicators too... We will see.
Many thanks for that though, really does frame the force size in a bit more perspective now ha!
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#53
ElectricPaladin

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Wow!
Cheers buddy! It's much appreciated!
See, I knew three betrayal at Calths was quite a lot, but still... Heh.

I think next on the cards will be some rapier platforms, magnets and more special weapons.


Got a ton of rhino chassis lying around in various states of painting and repair. May have to get converting and repurpose some to predators or vindicators too... We will see.
Many thanks for that though, really does frame the force size in a bit more perspective now ha!

 

Excellent. It's too bad you're a brit, otherwise I'd be happy to help you baptize your force... in prometheum!



#54
ronin_cse

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Just in case anyone was wondering I ended up deciding to go with Word Bearers. I was really leaning heavily towards Ultra Marines but we have so many Space Marines in the local meta that I just wanted to do something different.


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#55
Xenith

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Just in case anyone was wondering I ended up deciding to go with Word Bearers. I was really leaning heavily towards Ultra Marines but we have so many Space Marines in the local meta that I just wanted to do something different.

 

Erm. I hate to break it to you, but Word Bearers are also Space Marines.



#56
ElectricPaladin

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Just in case anyone was wondering I ended up deciding to go with Word Bearers. I was really leaning heavily towards Ultra Marines but we have so many Space Marines in the local meta that I just wanted to do something different.

 

Erm. I hate to break it to you, but Word Bearers are also Space Marines.

 

No. Word Bearers are tattooed space jerks in power armor.

 

Actually, Ronin probably means "loyalists."



#57
ronin_cse

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Just in case anyone was wondering I ended up deciding to go with Word Bearers. I was really leaning heavily towards Ultra Marines but we have so many Space Marines in the local meta that I just wanted to do something different.

 

Erm. I hate to break it to you, but Word Bearers are also Space Marines.

 

 

Crap! Guess I better change my mind then msn-wink.gif.

 

Sorry should have clarified: I want to tie this into a 40k army as well. We have tons of vanilla 40k Space Marine armies but only like 1 Chaos Space Marine army so that's what I was getting at msn-wink.gif

 

Edit:

 

Well finally got around to finishing Betrayer...........and now I'm doing a shattered legion force of Word Bearers and World Eaters. World Eaters used to be my least favorite legion but now after getting more of their lore I love them. Probably one of the most complex and sympathetic Legions I have read about. Looking forward to finally getting started!


Edited by ronin_cse, 28 March 2016 - 05:44 PM.

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#58
Motorhead

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I am still waiting for my books but looking at the units, I think I want to do a dreadnought heavy force with footslogging troops and apothecaries. All of my 40k armies are loyalist so maybe it's time for a change but I get a funny feeling when I think about straying from the Emperor's light.

 

Any suggestions are most welcome.



#59
Frater Cornelius

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Iron Hands do that damn well with extra vehicle upgrades, tougher infantry against shooting and option to ally in Mechanicum if you wsnt more stompy bots. And they are loyalist. Sure, their Primarch is a head shorter now, but whatchagonnado.

Be excellent to one another, and lean on your brothers and sisters when your patience grows slim

 


#60
Slips

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Y'know, book 6 has a Pure Dreadnought RoW...


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#61
Motorhead

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Book 6 is in the mail. I will check out Iron Hands and the Dred list. Thank you.



#62
ronin_cse

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And now I'm back to thinking Ultramarines are the way to go for me...........damn my fickle heart!


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#63
Charlo

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And now I'm back to thinking Ultramarines are the way to go for me...........damn my fickle heart!


Everyone does a traitor and a loyalist eventually so... I guess you have yours figured out ;)

#64
Frater Cornelius

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And now I'm back to thinking Ultramarines are the way to go for me...........damn my fickle heart!


Everyone does a traitor and a loyalist eventually so... I guess you have yours figured out msn-wink.gif

 

 

I tried playing traitors once, but the models all combusted the moment I touched them, setting the room and all the heretics in it ablaze with holy flame. Haven't tried it since biggrin.png


Edited by Immersturm, 31 March 2016 - 05:01 PM.

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#65
GreyCrow

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Hello guys !

 

So, once again I turn to your wisdom to help me settle on a Legion :P This time, not in terms of fluff, because while I do like the specific idea of specific Legions, usually a strong character implies a very well defined playstyle.

 

For a moment, I thought my choice was dead set on the Ultramarines (in terms of values and general playstyle, and I'm damn loving their Heresy color scheme !) because they can field a large variety of units and still be efficient with them. However, even the mighty Ultramarines have a specific "optimal" playstyle even if they can go about it in different ways I find. Most notably, following Line + Cavalry (in this case cavalry being tanks, or jetbikes, or whatever, etc) tactics that GW heavily drew from the Roman Legions.

While I do like the flexibility of choosing different units to go about this, I would rather not be as constrained when it comes to the general strategy for the Legion.

 

Rather, I would like a Legion which would allow me (in terms of gameplay) of using a very large variety of playstyles, and that would allow me to use and experiment with new uses for units rather than have a predefined role for them and trying to optimize it.

 

For example, I really like the Iron Hands' Rites of War that allows to Outflank tanks. Or the fact that Guilliman can provide some special rules to specific units. Or the fact that the Alpha Legion allows to choose different tactics army wide.

 

However, none really satisfy my need to experiment, because I find that the units themselves have very limited options. And I totally get that due to gameplay and balance reasons.

 

But since you guys know the system better than I do, I was wondering if I could use your knowledge to point me in an interesting direction ! :D Ideally, I would love to find a Legion/Army that offers me an extremely wide array of options. Not in terms of what units you can field (I think that what draws me to 30k is that you can do a lot more stuff with Marines than in 40k), but in terms of a wide array of real customization to the units.

 

The ideal (and unobtainable ! :P ) scenario would be a "deisgn your own Legion" format, but I'll settle for the most free experience I can get :P If you need more details to see where I'm coming from or what I'm looking for, I can provide with pleasure.

 

Thanks a lot in advance ! :)


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#66
ElectricPaladin

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So, the thing is that most legions can do a wide variety of playstyles, because the generic Rites of War are all fun and flavorful. For example: I have been really enjoying using Orbital Assault with my Salamanders, despite the fact that one of their two proprietary RoW actually bans Deep Strike and the other makes it hard. But I don't care. Orbital Assault works for me, and I've been having fun with it.

What you should do is fall back on the qualities of the legions that exist in all RoWs. It sounds like you don't want to do a legion that strongly limits your army choices, like Iron Hands (rigid tactics) or Blood Angels (don't recall what it's called). The question is, what do you ALWAYS want to do? Be stubborn and tough as nails? Get into assault? Have lots of devious options? These are things that your army will do no matter which RoW you pick, and that's what should form the basis of your choice.

#67
GreyCrow

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Hey man, thanks for the message msn-wink.gif

 

To answer your question, I ALWAYS want to do something different tongue.png (at least from games to games). I don't always want to Assault, I don't always want to Shoot, or use tanks, or use fast "cavalry". And more importantly, I want to be always able to innovate tactics, all the time tongue.png

 

More importantly, like you said, you can play a Legion in many different ways as your example with your Salamanders however the basic principles of warfare remains, it's just how you apply it that differs. In the case of your Drop Pods, you still have a Hammer and Anvil strategy : you drop your lines unit where you want them as your Anvil where you want to anchor them and you still have your Anvil units that are high gank low tank (which you drop or fly in, I don't know the specifics of your army msn-wink.gif ).

 

To me, how you achieve something is less important than what you can achieve. For example, in a Hammer and Anvil strategy, the line units can either be 20 men tactical squads, assault squads, mechanized troops, and your Hammer can be anything from tanks to podded elites. But the general principle remain the same tongue.png

 

What I want to do with an army is to have all the options open and create new ones (obviously within the context of the ruleset, but I want the wider ruleset possible tongue.png ). To give you a ludicrous example, ideally I would love to be able to Infiltrate/Outflank/Deep Strike Super Heavies. Not that I particularily want to infiltrate a Glaive, but just to have the option.

And not only limited to tanks, but to the infantry as well. I want to have the full choice of units and explore new ways to play with them. Example : Why wouldn't I Deep Strike Mor Deythans for example ? And do that in an army with Fulmentarus Terminators.

 

Ideally, I want to be able to do everything and recombine everything to expand the realm of strategic possibilities tongue.png Rather than picking one playstyle or one specific "value" of a Legion and build around it.

 

(I don't want to influence you, but perhaps the Alpha Legion with a Coils of the Hydra ROW and Dynat would be the most open solution, even though it still limits what I can do with support elements).

 

EDIT : I guess I should take a large look at all the new Rites of War for Retribution as well, and maybe build an army that allows to take advantage of as many of them without too much conversion work :P


Edited by GreyCrow, 01 April 2016 - 01:47 PM.

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#68
Charlo

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I'd say go with your current Ultras. Interlocking Tactics and good morale ensure most battle plans are valid.

Plus the special units give you everything, shooting, resilience, assault, buffs!


OR Alphas. They're super flexible in a different way. More extreme.

Edited by Charlo, 01 April 2016 - 04:26 PM.


#69
LetsYouDown

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It sounds like you probably want to go Alpha Legion. You can play the same units a number of different ways from game to game using Mutable Tactics. If you use Autilon Skorr you can sometimes even effectively pick two universal special rules for the army, changing the way your force plays entirely from opponent to opponent. And then you combine that with the diversity offered by all the Rites of War in the game now.

 

Will a crazy combination be effective? Who knows, but there are so many combinations with mixing the 3 above factors that you'll never really run out of things to try (as long as you have the models to run the more extreme Rites).



#70
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Taking Skorr + POTL (or Chosen Duty) makes for some hilarious rule stacking on Tac Vets at times.


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#71
Charlo

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In terms of pure rules-ness no one makes a normal marine go further than the AL. Plus power daggers and venom spheres are crazy good.

So you want to get close and personal without risk of a charge? Sounds like you need Skorr to infiltrate breachers with counter attach. Facing heavy AV? Dynats +1 on the damage table and tank Hunter will see you through. Enemy word bearers getting you down? Well how about when you have adamantium will?

Do you like winning? Well you better, your pride is on the line! And with army wide preferred enemy and rerolls to size and first turn the world is yours.

#72
ElectricPaladin

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Yeah… I've got to agree. It sounds like you'd enjoy the Alpha Legion most. "Mutable Tactics" is the closest thing to building your own legion the game offers.

But to propose an alternative: blackshields are also extremely customizable.

#73
GreyCrow

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Yeah, it does look like it's the one that allows the widest range of options with the army and tactics, using the least conventional tactics of them all. I'm just a bit cold feeted because while I like their fluff from Legion, I just find them a very dislikable bunch tongue.png

 

They are the most "outside the box thinkers" though, and a wide variety of playstyles can be done with them definitely !

 

EDIT : And what Legion would you think uses the most "reactive" units on the battlefield ? As in a Legion that is comfortable with a list where I can adapt pregame to my opponent's strategy because units can act in different ways ?

I tend to think Infiltrate from the AL (on all units) is something that would offer me this flexibility but I would assume any speedy army or army with good deployment options should do the trick.

 

Which Legion do you think allows for that the most ? I was thinking Jetbikes, fast moving stuff with many deployment options as well could work. But right now the AL sounds closer to what I'm looking for indeed.

 

Is there any good reading material about the White Scars and Jaghatai Khan (so I can get the philosophy behind his Legion ?)


Edited by GreyCrow, 02 April 2016 - 10:55 PM.

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#74
ThatOneMarshal

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Scars is one of the best books of the heresy. You would be doing yourself a disservice if you don't read it.


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#75
ElectricPaladin

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Yeah, it does look like it's the one that allows the widest range of options with the army and tactics, using the least conventional tactics of them all. I'm just a bit cold feeted because while I like their fluff from Legion, I just find them a very dislikable bunch tongue.png

 

They are the most "outside the box thinkers" though, and a wide variety of playstyles can be done with them definitely !

 

EDIT : And what Legion would you think uses the most "reactive" units on the battlefield ? As in a Legion that is comfortable with a list where I can adapt pregame to my opponent's strategy because units can act in different ways ?

I tend to think Infiltrate from the AL (on all units) is something that would offer me this flexibility but I would assume any speedy army or army with good deployment options should do the trick.

 

Which Legion do you think allows for that the most ? I was thinking Jetbikes, fast moving stuff with many deployment options as well could work. But right now the AL sounds closer to what I'm looking for indeed.

 

Is there any good reading material about the White Scars and Jaghatai Khan (so I can get the philosophy behind his Legion ?)

 

I'll repeat myself, but if you want mutability but dislike the Alpha Legion, seriously consider Blackshields. You have so many options for how your army plays, and like the Alpha Legion, it will be easy for you to decide how to play when you build your list, all with the same models.






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