Xenith Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I've usually avoided combi-weapons because of their one-use nature. However in my tactical squad load-out, I'd go with a combi-flamer, flamer and heavy flamer, and here's why. If the rules haven't changed since I last peeked in here(which might very well be!), you solve wound groups by stats now, so weapons with template go seperate, different strength and ap value and so forth. So you'd go with bolters, "roll one up, homie". Next are the melta-weapons, "roll one up, homie", and, and, and. You take the combi-flamer and the flamer, they have the same weapon profile for their template weapon. You're allowed to fire them simultaneously, which means you double the amount of models under the template and therefore the amount of hits. Should you first shoot the heavy flamer, then the regular flamer and then the hand flamer, which you kinda want to do in that order, you have to resolve all the wounds inflicted from the heavy flamer first, then the flamer, then the hand flamer. After each weapon is fired, there's a good chance you'll get a few hit less for the next. The bolters are just there to mop up what's left standing. My loadout would be ten marines with the three flame-weapons, a drop-pod and locator beacon just for fun. First turn fun, to be precise. Watch those heretics burn in the rightful flames of the Emperor's Will as you laugh and cackle and get removed from the gaming table! Well, so, uh, yeah. That's how I kitted out my Tactical Marines. Snorri Templates are actually the exception to the rule of different weapon profiles shooting. In the template special rule at the back, it says a squad with multiple templates places them all at the same time, which over rides the general shooting order rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrcheese Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Templates are actually the exception to the rule of different weapon profiles shooting. In the template special rule at the back, it says a squad with multiple templates places them all at the same time, which over rides the general shooting order rules. I think this is meta dependant and open to debate, as the example in the back of the book all the flamers have the same profile. RAW suggests that all varying template profiles fire simultaneously, but whether or not that's the RAI is questionable. EDC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I think this is meta dependant and open to debate, as the example in the back of the book all the flamers have the same profile. Open to debate only if you look at the picture and don't read the rule: "Multiple Templates If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time, as described above, determining and recording how many hits are scored by each template. Once the number of hits from all templates has been determined, roll To Wound as normal." It seems crystal clear to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Yep - you get to do a BOAT load of hits with the fiya squad. It lets you do many more wounds than there are models in the squads and force a lot of saves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrcheese Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I think this is meta dependant and open to debate, as the example in the back of the book all the flamers have the same profile. Open to debate only if you look at the picture and don't read the rule: "Multiple Templates If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time, as described above, determining and recording how many hits are scored by each template. Once the number of hits from all templates has been determined, roll To Wound as normal." It seems crystal clear to me! I don't know why you felt the need to remove my last sentence,especially when it's agreeing with you in principle that RAW all templates regardless of profile fire together. GW aren't famed for their tight and concise rules writing, I was merely issuing caution that it it gets FAQ'd away or you encounter someone who accepts the other ruling, not to be surprised. EDC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I don't know why you felt the need to remove my last sentence... The "Open to debate" part was the only part of your post that I needed to quote: My point was, that it isn't really open to debate, which you agree with, in general? I also don't like quoting entire posts because it wastes space and time, so I cut them down to the specific points I want to respond to :) I found that many people read the 7th ed shooting rules, then think "I already know how a flamer works, no need to read the rules for templates", and miss out on this gem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Until someone pointed it out on here a few months ago I had no idea Ordnance no longer meant large blast. Think what I thought laser rapiers could do......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverson Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Well after killing 5 grey hunters in over watch I'm 100% on board with gun slinging hand flamers. I found having all my weapons for a single purpose (killing infantry) was a major benefit. Also with the one and done nature of combi flamers, the joy of hand flamers getting to jump out of a rhino firing off 4 templates and 14 rapid fire shots then seeing the the oponant trying to debate charging into them really made me smile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Well after killing 5 grey hunters in over watch I'm 100% on board with gun slinging hand flamers. I found having all my weapons for a single purpose (killing infantry) was a major benefit. Also with the one and done nature of combi flamers, the joy of hand flamers getting to jump out of a rhino firing off 4 templates and 14 rapid fire shots then seeing the the oponant trying to debate charging into them really made me smile. So great right? :D don't forget the frag grenade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 *snip* Templates are actually the exception to the rule of different weapon profiles shooting. In the template special rule at the back, it says a squad with multiple templates places them all at the same time, which over rides the general shooting order rules. Mh, thanks for that, I should check with my rulebook again! It's not the first time the translation from English to German was messed up by GW... Well, in that case, I'd go for 2 handflamers as well I think. I like the looks of it, but the S3 is what kind of put me off most of the time. Perhaps it's better to go by mass instead of class here. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 S3 sucks... Right? Tell that to guardsmen. You cover 6 models with that template that is 2 wounds on average against T4. More than your bolt pistol was ever going to get and only 1 less than a combi-flamer in that situation. Plus it gives you an extra attack in combat if you want a power weapon. Or you can have two and pile on those saves. I like to see it as a hand held guardsmen volley that doesn't even need to roll to hit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverson Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Well after killing 5 grey hunters in over watch I'm 100% on board with gun slinging hand flamers. I found having all my weapons for a single purpose (killing infantry) was a major benefit. Also with the one and done nature of combi flamers, the joy of hand flamers getting to jump out of a rhino firing off 4 templates and 14 rapid fire shots then seeing the the oponant trying to debate charging into them really made me smile. So great right? don't forget the frag grenade! I forgot the grenade wont make that mistake next time :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 It's not the first time the translation from English to German was messed up by GW... Interesting, you say the German version doesn't say that? I ask as I've moved to Switzerland and my meta is now Deutsch-hammer. I don't want to be accused of shenannigans. edit: typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 It's not the first time the translation from English to German was messed up by GW... Interesting, you say the German version doesn't say that? I ask as I've moved to Switzerland and my meta is now Deutsch-hammer. I don't want to be accused of shenannigans. edit: typo Can't tell you exactly now, mate! I just know that the translations aren't always spot on, for example under the German ruleset allows your scouting units to confer Scout to dedicated transport. Obviously this isn't possible under the English version. I'll get to it as soon as I'm home. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Can't tell you exactly now, mate! I just know that the translations aren't always spot on, for example under the German ruleset allows your scouting units to confer Scout to dedicated transport. Obviously this isn't possible under the English version. I'll get to it as soon as I'm home. Snorri It's fine in the English: "If a unit with this special rule is deployed inside a Dedicated Transport, it confers the Scout special rule to the Transport (though a disembarkation cannot be performed as part of the redeployment)." I guess they're pretty much the same. Don't worry about finding errors, I think that there are maybe too many, or too few for it make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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